Alignment on National Winning STS 240sx!

[Kenny_D]

I just read about the 240 that won the 2006 National Solo STS title in Grassroots. That guy is running crazy camber: -4.5(f) -2.5(r)! I thought over 3 degrees was worthless, but this guy stomped everyone else. I think I can get almost -4 in the front with my camber plates. Maybe I won't get Ruca's and will just leave the rear at -2*. Tire wear be Da**ed!!!!!!!!

Here it is:

[nismofly]

really grippy tires like lots of camber, most guys racing run between -3 and -5 front, -2 to -3 ish rear

if you dont have 140 treadwear tires (the lowest youre allowed in sts) then dont run so much camber, the tires wont like it

try buying a pyrometer, then you can see for yourself what you need

also say it with me...

camber does not cause tire wear, toe causes tire wear, camber causes toe

but toe can be aligned out while still retaining lots of camber

[Kenny_D]

also say it with me...

camber does not cause tire wear, toe causes tire wear, camber causes toe

but toe can be aligned out while still retaining lots of camber

that's why I'm leaving my rear at -2. My tires are 160 treadwear so I'm gonna run as much as I can, which is only -3 up front.

[j-rho]

Treadwear is not the best indicator of grip, so a 160 isn't necessarily any less grippy than a 140 tire.

Another factor is sidewall stiffness - the highest performance street tires have stiffer sidewalls, which maintain a flatter compact patch - meaning that a lower-performance tire should probably get MORE negative camber than a higher performance one.

The last factor is suspension stiffness - my car was set fairly stiff up front - 550lb. front springs and the Largus front swaybar. A softer car will roll more for a given grip level, so even if you have lower performance tires, the car will probably roll a similar mount, which, with our suspensions has a detrimental effect, especially on a lowered car, so again, this speaks to using more static negative camber.

Short answer: If you want maximum cornering from your car, max out the negative camber.

[nismofly]

i shouldve gone into more detail, of course there wont be much grip difference solely based on a 140 vs. 160 treadwear, but if youre running tires with 600 treadwear its a good bet they wont like too much camber because the rest of the tire will be built to match that wear rating

would you mind posting some of your setup by any chance?

im specifically interested in what rear wing that is, and what youre running for a suspension setup? you mention the largus sways and 550 lb springs...sleeve overs perhaps?

[j-rho]

The STS setup is pretty well covered in this thread:showthread.php?t=139581

This year, I've gone to Street Modified:showthread.php?t=163184

[Red coupe]

i shouldve gone into more detail, of course there wont be much grip difference solely based on a 140 vs. 160 treadwear, but if youre running tires with 600 treadwear its a good bet they wont like too much camber because the rest of the tire will be built to match that wear rating

would you mind posting some of your setup by any chance?

im specifically interested in what rear wing that is, and what youre running for a suspension setup? you mention the largus sways and 550 lb springs...sleeve overs perhaps?

Its not his, he was refering to an article in GRM, it was in this last issue, if you need ill get you the specs, but you should have a subscription :P

[nismofly]

the guy that owns it is a member but i couldnt remember his name, i thought that might be him lol

[underground57]

No numbers, but here's an article:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.c...tlist

Sean, if you've got them, can you post the specs? I'll try to get ahold of the issue in the next couple days and post it up if you haven't.

[Red coupe]

the guy that owns it is a member but i couldnt remember his name, i thought that might be him lol

Actualy yeah, I meant it wasn't the original posters car, but it is j-rho's car, I didn't even notice....Congrats man.

I should be doing homework so I didn't get a chance to do much more then skim it, but I don't see the wing brand...

Engine: Nissan KA24DE 2.4 liter SOHC [oops] bored ,020in over, injen CAI, DC header, buddy club spec II catback, APEX'i SAFC

Interior: Cobra Suzuka driver seat, Kirkey intermediate passenger, momo wheel and ebrake, nismo shift knob.

Suspension Eibach springs (550/500 lb/in), Pro part built konis, Largus front bar, ARC Pipe rear, SPC RUC, Whiteline and energy suspension bushings-4.5 camber 1/8in toe out front-2.5 / 1/4in in the rear

Brakes: Porterfield R4-S pads

Wheels Volk CE28-N 17X7.5

Tires: Yokohama advan neova ad07 or Potenza RE-01R 225/45/17

according to the article...

[Kenny_D]

The STS setup is pretty well covered in this thread:showthread.php?t=139581

This year, I've gone to Street Modified:showthread.php?t=163184

Hey man if the National car is yours, props for giving Grassroots your setup information. It's nice to finally get some proven numbers to start a baseline setup.

[j-rho]

The wing was the APR GTC-300. More of a track wing, but I liked the way it looked.

[AmoebAssassin]

really grippy tires like lots of camber, most guys racing run between -3 and -5 front, -2 to -3 ish rear

if you dont have 140 treadwear tires (the lowest youre allowed in sts) then dont run so much camber, the tires wont like it

try buying a pyrometer, then you can see for yourself what you need

also say it with me...

camber does not cause tire wear, toe causes tire wear, camber causes toe

but toe can be aligned out while still retaining lots of camber

Actually most high performance radial-ply tires are much more inensitive to camber than you'd imagine.

The reason to run such high camber on the front of a 240sx are threefold1) Offset poor camber gain charactersitcs of low 240sxes.2) Offset positive camber gain effects of putting struts in bending (characteristic of all machphereson strut cars)3) Build tire temperature!

BTW on a 240sx, toe gain due to increasing camber is pretty insignificant. Still, it's good practice to dial in camber before toe.