Greetings,
I recently installed the KYB AGX/Eibach Prokit combo on my 1995 240SX SE and promptly took it in for an alignment. Everything seemed to be fine afterwards, but now about 5 months later I just noticed my front tires are almost worn bald on the inner edges only. I had just got these tires a few months before I installed the shocks/springs so this is most definitely not good. I've read that this type of wear is an indication of improper toe adjustment. And as luck would have it, my state inspection is due this month so I am forced to get new tires and figure out what is wrong with the alignment. My question is, do I have any recourse with the shop that did the alignment (local Pep Boys)? They did write on the receipt that it was "close to being out of spec" but that's it, they didn't say anything about what might need to be fixed. And "close" in my mind does not mean "out" and does not mean totally destroying my tires. What should or can I do at this point? I need to get this resolved in the next 3 weeks because of the inspection.
alignment - any recourse?
Also you can set your toe with a metric tape measure[ since the spec is metric] Take the tape measure, have a friend help you, feed the tape measure under the car across to the other side in front of the tire. Have your freind place the tip of the tape measure in the center tread ,you pull it tight from the other side,place the tape measure so it is as high up on the tire as possible on both sides without haveing the under carriage interfereing with it. Take a measurement at the inner edge of the center tire tread bar. repeat this process at the rear side of that same tire.
If the number at the front of the tire is higher then the number at the rear of the tire you have excessive toe out. your spec should be 1 to 3 mm toe in. 2 or more mm out of that spec will show premature outter edge tire wear very quickly.
To adjust it you will be rotating the inner tie rods. If your steering wheel is currently straight when driving on a level road you need to adjust each side of the car equally since the toe adjustment can affect steering center. if adjustment is more then 10mm out of spec start with one full rotation of each inner tie rod. BTW inorder for the inner tie rod to rotate you need to loosen the jam nut on it locking it in place to the outter tie rod. screwing the tie rods out of the outter tie rods will bring toe in. you will need to drive the car a short run after each adjustment to make sure all suspension is at its rest and remeasure after each adjustment and drive.
If the number at the front of the tire is higher then the number at the rear of the tire you have excessive toe out. your spec should be 1 to 3 mm toe in. 2 or more mm out of that spec will show premature outter edge tire wear very quickly.
To adjust it you will be rotating the inner tie rods. If your steering wheel is currently straight when driving on a level road you need to adjust each side of the car equally since the toe adjustment can affect steering center. if adjustment is more then 10mm out of spec start with one full rotation of each inner tie rod. BTW inorder for the inner tie rod to rotate you need to loosen the jam nut on it locking it in place to the outter tie rod. screwing the tie rods out of the outter tie rods will bring toe in. you will need to drive the car a short run after each adjustment to make sure all suspension is at its rest and remeasure after each adjustment and drive.
Q45tech, I don't think it's a camber problem as prokit springs only lower it about an inch, and the tires are only worn on the very inner edge (up to the first tread groove), otherwise they still have lots of tread. Problem is, the worn part is nearly down to the wear marker already.
NISTECH,I will try that, but what if the tie rods are very worn or other parts are very worn? Is there anything else I need to look at that could contribute to the problem?
NISTECH,I will try that, but what if the tie rods are very worn or other parts are very worn? Is there anything else I need to look at that could contribute to the problem?
Even 1 inch lower is enough to alter camber and can cause premature wear. my advice was in addition to what he said as I would have also mentioned camber. camber is the straight up and down position of the tire as the car is lowered the top of the tire begins to lean in therefore changing your camber angle. if the inside tire tread is feathered that indicates a toe issue but if there is no feathering of the inside tread then you alignment problem is camber alone. both toe and camber will cause edge wear on your tires. your best bet would be to replace the tires and get the free alignment most shops offer they will check your ball joints you mentioned as well as any other wearable suspension components. since you front camber is not adjustable aftermarket shims will be needed to bring camber into spec.
If you just adjust your toe now and not find out if the camber is ok. by the time you know for sure you will most likely be needing tires again.
If you just adjust your toe now and not find out if the camber is ok. by the time you know for sure you will most likely be needing tires again.
Well it is definitely a toe issue. I just measured it and it looks to have around 4-5mm toe out. But can this be due to worn components or did I just get a bum alignment job? I mean it was only done 5 months ago, and I haven't hit anything or had any noticeable problems other than the front tire wear.
What shops offer free alignment? I've never heard of that.
What shops offer free alignment? I've never heard of that.
if your buy tires from oh say pepboys or sears I know they offer a free alignment check. I had been asked that many times when picking up tires for different cars I have had. They offer it so they can try to sell you something else. Common practice.
you did measure your toe with the car on the ground right?
you did measure your toe with the car on the ground right?
Well, I ended up replacing the tension rods (one was leaking) and the outer tie rods (the boots were torn up). I also got new front tires and another alignment (this time at a Nissan dealer). Everything now looks good except for the camber, which I expected. Here's the numbers:
FRONTtoe (range is 0.07 to 0.17)left = 0.13 right = 0.10
camber (range is 0.00 to -1.50)left = -1.60 right = -1.50
REARtoe (range is 0.00 to 0.23)left = 0.17 right = 0.18
camber (range is -0.42 to -1.92)left = -2.7 right = -2.3
So the front is just barely out of spec, and rear is definitely out of spec. But there is no significat wear on the rears like there was on the front, so it had to have been a toe problem.
FRONTtoe (range is 0.07 to 0.17)left = 0.13 right = 0.10
camber (range is 0.00 to -1.50)left = -1.60 right = -1.50
REARtoe (range is 0.00 to 0.23)left = 0.17 right = 0.18
camber (range is -0.42 to -1.92)left = -2.7 right = -2.3
So the front is just barely out of spec, and rear is definitely out of spec. But there is no significat wear on the rears like there was on the front, so it had to have been a toe problem.
-
Q45tech
- Moderator
- Posts: 14296
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
-1.5 degree camber will eat inside edge fast. You are confusing the BROAD acceptable range with the precision midpoint of the range around -0.65 degrees [front] -1.1 deg [rear].
What is caster reading?
Remember factory numbers assume everything is brand new not worn..........these are alignment misadjustment errors [set it wrong sitting still] so that when moving down the road the thrust from engine straightens things out [zero toe].........when you decelerate from braking or just engine braking [toe in] acceleration should toe out.
What is caster reading?
Remember factory numbers assume everything is brand new not worn..........these are alignment misadjustment errors [set it wrong sitting still] so that when moving down the road the thrust from engine straightens things out [zero toe].........when you decelerate from braking or just engine braking [toe in] acceleration should toe out.
There was no reading for caster. It's not adjustable as far as I know.
My point is the camber is more out of spec in the rear than it is in the front and the rear tires are not getting eaten up at all. Right now toe is exactly where it should be according to factory specs, but it wasn't before. That's why the first inch of the inside of the front tires was chewed up. Yes, camber could contribute to that, but not to the degree that it would destroy only the very inner edges of the tires in 5 months. At least not these tires on this car. It had to be excessive toe out. It's the only logical explanation given the facts.
But I will be watching them very closely now just to be certain.
My point is the camber is more out of spec in the rear than it is in the front and the rear tires are not getting eaten up at all. Right now toe is exactly where it should be according to factory specs, but it wasn't before. That's why the first inch of the inside of the front tires was chewed up. Yes, camber could contribute to that, but not to the degree that it would destroy only the very inner edges of the tires in 5 months. At least not these tires on this car. It had to be excessive toe out. It's the only logical explanation given the facts.
But I will be watching them very closely now just to be certain.