Alcohol Injection

Post by **syka24et** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

WD you were talking about denatured alc. What types do they have and is there and advantage to any particular type, or is it all the same.

Post by **WDRacing** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

Most alcohol that is 95% or greater will work the best.

Post by **cnichols** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

So I could just stop off at the liquor store and pick up so good old Everclear, huh?

Then I could just shoot whatever's left over.

Post by **Turbo_Nismo_EC** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

I can vouch for alcohol injection. My buddy has ran a 3-stage alcohol injection system for about three years now and has had no problems other than he had to clean his jets a few months ago. He has been running 20+ psi with no intercooler very successfully(now he is at 28psi shooting for 30). Granted it is on a 1.5L SOHC Hyundai motor, but it seems to be very reliable. The only disadvantage is he has to purchase and maintain his alcohol level in his car or he will blow his motor. But so far so good.

By the way, he has no other form of fuel upgrade. Now FMU, no bigger injectors, no ECU upgrade....... nothing, just the alcohol.

Post by **matt0941** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

:shocked2 28 PSI w/o upgraded ECU/IC/MAF?

Post by **Red Lightning** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

How much HP is he making at 28PSI?

Post by **matt0941** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

I am not sure that it would be laying down large numbers due to the fact that it is a 1.5L SOHC. On the other hand some 1.8L CAs can lay down some large figures with large boost.

I guess this thread has taught us to not be afraid of alcohol... I know I'm not.

C'mon, just take a sip, JUST ONE SIP DAMNIT!

:beerchug :beer :beerchug

Post by **Turbo_Nismo_EC** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

Well he hasn't dynoed it in a while, but last March when he was running at 25 psi he laid down 261 hp @ the front wheels. I guess that's not too bad for a 1.5L SOHC engine origionally rated at like 100 hp.

Post by **S14Zilvia** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

WDRacing wrote:I'm probably going to sneak a few engine back in my household goods shipment...hehe.

I don't believe in fancy bells and whistles so I have been using a dual stg(1 high setting and 1 low setting) from TurboXS for the last 3 years. It has worked flawlessly everytime. Easy to install and easy to adjust. Not to mention a few hundred bucks cheaper then most decent B/C/s from other company's.

http://WWW.TURBOXS.COM

WD

So you just have the wastegate set at a certain psi with the spring, and that's your high boost, then the turbo is still boosting that pressure for low boost, but you just blow it off through the turboxs valve?

Wouldn't you want to limit the boost at the turbo for low boost (i.e. electronic controller) instead of letting it boost 100% all the time?

Post by **WDRacing** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

Actually its nothing like that, the dual stg boost controller works the same as a single stg. The dual stg has to solenoids to control to different boost levels. Which you set yourself via a ball and spring mecnansim. There is an electric solenoid that switches between the to boost solenoids. All you have to do is flip a toggle switch inside the cabin and your at high or low boost.

Both solenoids actuate the wastegate to relieve boost.

WD

Post by **gyfer** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

WD will an A/F Gauge or EGT gauge still work n help with tuning?

IMO, tuning with A/F Gauge or EGT gauge is one of the worst idea. A/F gauge don't show accurate A/F ratio. EGT only tell combusion temperature, won't tell you lean or rich. ( can be either )

When comes to tuning, you seriously need a WB sensor. Or you can spend $50 for dyno run.

You can build your own Wide-Band O2 sensor for $200 or less.http://www.diy-wb.com

Question for WD:-How's the A/F ratio react when you start spraying alcohol ?-On your previous post, you meantion MSD knock sensor safe you few times on very hot day. If you maintain constant 11-12:1 a/f, will that still happen ?-You also mention 13:1 a/f produce wonder power output. I am wondering if that apply alcohol usage?-Did you say Alky has more energy rating than gasoline ?-How you think about Toluene ?

Post by **WDRacing** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

Anwers: 1. The cheaper A/F gauges are better for adjusting your idle mixture. I would never trust one to actually tune my motor with. A dyno is really the only way to go.

2. An EGT is good to have becasue they are accurate, especially if you get one with playback. You'll be able to see if your car is creeping into the danger zone. However, unless you have an EGT sensor on each exhaust tube you won't be able to tell which cylinder is running lean/rich.

3. Since the kit I have sprays at one constant volume, it starts off rich but leans itself out to a healthy level once the boost makes up for the additional fuel.

4. Over here I've seen days when the temps run over 100F, you don't want to be boosting alot with temps that high. The hooter the outside air temp is the richer your fuel mixture will need to be. but it's just a safer bet not to run high boost on those days.

5. What I meant by that was running any engine real lean will produce more power on any fuel, but it will also lead to the death of that engine. I've blown up quite a few RB20's.

6. Certain types of alcohol produce more energy then 91octane pump gas when ignited. I have no persoanl data with toluene. Some of my friends in the GN world have used it, but they switched back to denatured. I never pursued to find out why.

WD

Post by **#1 Stunna** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

Here is a Link to the SMC site - http://www.smcenterprises.com

I will be putting this kit on my WRX shortly. I have heard nothing but praise about alcohol injection. I have not upgraded my fuel pump, injectors, or ecu yet but plan to get the pump and injectors before it is installed. Thank you.

Ivanhttp://www.HypnoticPerformance.com

Post by **C-Kwik** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

gyfer wrote:IMO, tuning with A/F Gauge or EGT gauge is one of the worst idea. A/F gauge don't show accurate A/F ratio. EGT only tell combusion temperature, won't tell you lean or rich. ( can be either )

EGT's are actually quite useful. No they are not direct indicators of a lean or rich mixture. But that's not the main point. It's a direct indication of combustion temperatures. This tells you a lot about how close to detonation you might be. It accounts for the overall picture of tuning. So not only is the mixture accounted for, but the timing and compression. Detonation has a lot to do with heat.

W/B O2's are great tuning tools, but once tuned properly, really isn't needed. Most of the time, guages are used more as a way to make sure everything is working correctly. If all was tuned perfectly, and the ECU accounts for changing conditions and nothing were to breakdown, you'ld have no reason to have guages.

Post by **syka24et** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

WD is there and advantage to using a percentage of water mixed with the alcohol?? I know water also has a cooling effect. Matter of fact in a comparison of water injection and alcohol what are the advantages and disadvatages if any of the two??

Post by **WDRacing** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

I hate water injection...

Post by **syka24et** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

WDRacing wrote:I hate water injection...

ok uhhh why?

Post by **matt0941** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

Because water doesn't have as much of a cool down effect as Alky. Even though it may be free (seeing as how you can get it from your faucet) it will not cool your chamber temperature down by 300 degrees as methanol will. Also water is hard to compress.

Post by **syka24et** » Sun Jan 05, 2003 6:05 pm

Thanks!!!

Alcohol Injection

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