I honestly really love the S13 and I plan on getting one for my next car, but I have anxiety and driving without a airbag kinda scares me the more I think about it. It's not my driving that scares me, it's someone rear-ending me going fast or someone t-bones me. Even tho the only wreck I've been in, the driver was going 30 and brakes locked up and slid in the rain into a car waiting at redlight, and my airbag didn't even go off on the passenger side. I was perfectly fine tho, just got pushed against my seatbelt. The camry in front that we hit, the guy's neck got hurt really bad I think. He had airbags, but he also got sandwiched between 2 cars. But it's really bothering me about not having that safety precaution, because I feel like if I don't have it, then that's when I'll need it.

But that's why I'm asking this question. I absolutely LOVE the s13 hatch. Everything about it is perfect to me, except for not having airbags. I understand that the s14 does have airbags, but I don't like the body style nearly as much. I could deal with a s14 with kouki headlights if it meant I'd be safe, but the s13 hatch is the perfect body style to me.

Anyways, would you guys say that a s13 with a rollcage, 5-6 point harness (heard 4 point isn't even that safe), and racing seats would be equivalent or better than a s14 with stock seats, and airbags? I mean a rollcage and harness was made for racers/rallyers to be able to roll their cars and not get hurt right? So would it be safer than an airbag? I know people have died from airbags, but a lot of people have been saved too.

I would have someone install it professionally anyways if I did end up getting the rollcage. And I've heard that just a racing seat with a harness is actually less safe if you don't have a roll cage, because if you roll then the roof will just collapse on you and you're stuck sitting upright. But what do you guys think?

Also is there a way to put a roll cage in WITHOUT taking the back seats out? If I did get a roll cage, I would want to have the back seats just in case I had to put someone back there. Because it's very likely that I would need to bring 2 friends with me somewhere, and I need the back seat. I've been in the backseat of a Oldsmobile Alero coupe with my bike and I fit back there, sort of lol. A tire was in my face, but I fit and I weigh like 180 and am 5'11. They don't need to be comfortable for long road trips, just safe and be able to sit down back there.

I'm definitely an advocate for cages instead of airbags. I'm not sure what is out there that will let you keep your back seat.

It is my understanding that safety components work together to form a safety system in a car. There are rigid components (ie rollcage or car frame), crumple zones, reactive components like air bags and/ or locking seat belts, and other components (seat, seat belt, windshield, steering wheel etc.). So, I think you choose to either want to trust the engineers of the car or you want to re-engineer a complete system.

I think the roll cage, with bucket seat (FIA approved of course), 5 or 6 point harness, a kill switch, window nets, arm restraints, helmet and HANs device is a great system. But the helmet affects peripheral vision and muffles sound, so it’s not the best for street. Some people argue (hypothetically) that having a roll cage without a helmet is worse than having no roll cage. Furthermore, a helmet with no HANs device isn’t great because of spinal separation issues. Cages add weight (people like the s13 because it is light) and reduce chassis flex (stuff that was engineered and designed into suspension and such). People want a reclining seat for comfort, not a bucket for safety. Arm restraints aren’t nice for coffee and smokes. OEM brake-away steering wheels don’t look cool. Etc. A cage in an S13 will not have functional back seats if the cage is made to current and common specs (ie SCCA cage requirements).

Modern cars have lots of airbags and lots of crumple zones. This is good for being alive after an accident, but at the expense of the car. You don’t want your car’s interior exploding just because you hit a curb, but it likely will because the airbags are set to go off in such a collision. You’re alive, your lower control arm needs to be replaced from hitting a curb, but now your dash and steering wheel need replacement, and those airbags, and the cabin needs to be cleaned of all that explosion stuff that went everywhere (yes, happened to me). I’ve also wrecked another S14 and an S13 and airbags wouldn’t have helped in either of those situations.

Being a proactive and alert driver is the best safety ‘upgrade’ you can have (IMHO). Maybe you can look into S14 steering wheel into an S13, add sensors and airbag computer… good idea maybe? Personally, I trust the OEM stuff until putting it into a track situation, then I’m for going all out safety as required for track use. There’s lot’s to consider, plusses and minuses, and I think you want to consider the entire system.

centralcoaster33 wrote:It is my understanding that safety components work together to form a safety system in a car. There are rigid components (ie rollcage or car frame), crumple zones, reactive components like air bags and/ or locking seat belts, and other components (seat, seat belt, windshield, steering wheel etc.). So, I think you choose to either want to trust the engineers of the car or you want to re-engineer a complete system.

I think the roll cage, with bucket seat (FIA approved of course), 5 or 6 point harness, a kill switch, window nets, arm restraints, helmet and HANs device is a great system. But the helmet affects peripheral vision and muffles sound, so it’s not the best for street. Some people argue (hypothetically) that having a roll cage without a helmet is worse than having no roll cage. Furthermore, a helmet with no HANs device isn’t great because of spinal separation issues. Cages add weight (people like the s13 because it is light) and reduce chassis flex (stuff that was engineered and designed into suspension and such). People want a reclining seat for comfort, not a bucket for safety. Arm restraints aren’t nice for coffee and smokes. OEM brake-away steering wheels don’t look cool. Etc. A cage in an S13 will not have functional back seats if the cage is made to current and common specs (ie SCCA cage requirements).

Modern cars have lots of airbags and lots of crumple zones. This is good for being alive after an accident, but at the expense of the car. You don’t want your car’s interior exploding just because you hit a curb, but it likely will because the airbags are set to go off in such a collision. You’re alive, your lower control arm needs to be replaced from hitting a curb, but now your dash and steering wheel need replacement, and those airbags, and the cabin needs to be cleaned of all that explosion stuff that went everywhere (yes, happened to me). I’ve also wrecked another S14 and an S13 and airbags wouldn’t have helped in either of those situations.

Being a proactive and alert driver is the best safety ‘upgrade’ you can have (IMHO). Maybe you can look into S14 steering wheel into an S13, add sensors and airbag computer… good idea maybe? Personally, I trust the OEM stuff until putting it into a track situation, then I’m for going all out safety as required for track use. There’s lot’s to consider, plusses and minuses, and I think you want to consider the entire system.

Wow man, that was a really good and thought out post. And yeah I do trust OEM engineering, but the thing without the airbags is a little weird. Because why would they have added them in the s14 if they weren't really "needed". I know it's actually better to not have an airbag if it's a small fender bender, but I'm just paranoid that some car will come crashing into the side of my car for whatever reason. Idk, I think the worst case scenario a lot. I did read a post where someone's friend got slammed into by a Cadillac that was in a cop pursuit, and he said that his friend ended up in the passenger seat and didn't remember anything in between sitting at a red light and being in a hospital. But he did live, so I guess there's that.

I found that story when I was researching certified racing seats vs the replica ones, because I wanted to know if the authentic ones were just overpriced for no reason. But actually found out that whenever there is a crash, even a minor one, the seat will break and shatter. One guy said his actually completely fell apart. It's crazy, I don't want to risk my life for a couple hundred bucks. Might as well just keep the OEM seats.

But I think it just bothers me since I don't have a S13 or S14 yet. I feel like once I understand the car, I'll be fine. Yeah, I might destroy a control arm from drifting or something. But I'm never going to get close enough to anything but a curb, because I really don't want my car to look like someone beat the crap out of it with a baseball bat like some 240's do. I want to keep mine at least somewhat clean looking. And as far as a airbag, honestly how many 240 owners keep the stock steering wheel? Not many from what I've seen. And it's usually the S14 owners that remove it in the first place, and also airbags weren't always around.

So I guess I'll just try to learn to trust the OEM engineering and leave it at that lol. I might uninstall the motorized seatbelt thing, so that it stays locked back, because I think it's just kind of a weird thing in the first place. Didn't they actually add a manual seatbelt in the newer model 180sx's? Like the 1998 version and stuff in Japan, or was it still motorized? I wonder if I could order one from there and install it on a S13 here in America. Also put some S14 seats in it because the S13 seats literally look like the most uncomfortable, ugly seats ever. I've only seen like 1 that the fabric wasn't all wrinkled and dirty looking.

A couple of things to keep in mind. And anyone plz correct me if I'm wrong, cos I'm mainly operating off of memory...

The S13 240sx did get a 4 out of 5 stars in head on crash tests, without airbags. A steering wheel airbag isn't gonna really help much in a side-impact situation anyways.

As far as the addition of airbags in the S14, '95 is around the time car manufacturers got into a lot of standardization, such as ALL cars being OBDII (1996?), and most cars coming with airbags as standard equipment. I think it's technically illegal to remove the airbag from a (street) car that came equipped with one from the factory.

Also note that most airbags are designed to deploy at speeds greater than like 35 mph. So a light fender dink shouldn't set them off.

And I think the auto-noose seatbelts were specifically for USDM S13's. The JDM S13's (SIlvia or 180) didn't have them, ever.

Like I said, correct me if I'm wrong.

TheRoadShark wrote:A couple of things to keep in mind. And anyone plz correct me if I'm wrong, cos I'm mainly operating off of memory...

The S13 240sx did get a 4 out of 5 stars in head on crash tests, without airbags. A steering wheel airbag isn't gonna really help much in a side-impact situation anyways.

As far as the addition of airbags in the S14, '95 is around the time car manufacturers got into a lot of standardization, such as ALL cars being OBDII (1996?), and most cars coming with airbags as standard equipment. I think it's technically illegal to remove the airbag from a (street) car that came equipped with one from the factory.

Also note that most airbags are designed to deploy at speeds greater than like 35 mph. So a light fender dink shouldn't set them off.

And I think the auto-noose seatbelts were specifically for USDM S13's. The JDM S13's (SIlvia or 180) didn't have them, ever.

Like I said, correct me if I'm wrong.

Hmm, I definitely want the manual seatbelts for a S13. Whenever I get one lol. The automated system just sounds like just another thing that can go bad and need to be replaced. I found a thread on how to convert USDM S13 to the 180sx manual seatbelts, so whenever I get a S13 that'll probably be one of the first things I do honestly.

And I don't think it's illegal to remove airbags from a car that came with them. Because I see S14's with Grip Royal steering wheels all the time. It's either a law that isn't really enforced, or it might be a state thing. Idk tbh, I just know I see a lot of S14's without them on craigslist.

Xektrez wrote:
And I don't think it's illegal to remove airbags from a car that came with them. Because I see S14's with Grip Royal steering wheels all the time. It's either a law that isn't really enforced, or it might be a state thing. Idk tbh, I just know I see a lot of S14's without them on craigslist.

Meh, just cos people do it doesn't mean it isn't illegal, and just cos it's illegal doesn't mean people won't do it. Illegal as in DOT violation, like not having seatbelts. It's illegal to have JDM spec headlights too (because of the way the cutoff is set) but people do that all the time, too, and most cops probably don't even notice the difference, or even know there is one. Just mentioning for the sake of mentioning, cos you never know when you might encounter a member of enforcement that will pick at whatever little thing they can find. Here in Flori-duh you wouldn't believe some of the nonsense reasons they pull you over for...

The other thing to consider is that, if it came with an airbag, the seatbelts and seats and other safety equipment are usually designed to work along with that. Basically, the auto locking and positioning of the belts, and the rigidity / flexibility of the seats, how much the steering column will or won't collapse, and other things, expect there to be a big high speed marshmallow to catch your face in the event of an accident. If the airbag is no longer there, you're changing the operating conditions.

TL;DR If it came with an airbag, I'd keep the airbag, for several reasons.

PS - in addition to the usual Nissan seatbelt swaps (S14 belts into s13) a fun fact I learned is that the belts from a Mitsu Eclipse (95-99) fit perfectly, with little to no modification. Like bending a tab, and that's it. the mounting bolts are even the same thread, and the eclipse shackle fits / locks perfectly into the Nissan buckle.

I know it scares the kids, but us old farts survived all those dark ages before automakers aimed a shotgun at the drivers face. My BRZ has like six bags all around me. It doesnt make me feel safer. I feel like this guy.



Maybe I'm old and tough, but I've crashed more than my share of cars, none with airbags and have walked away without a scratch. I have never taken a side hit to the door or put a car on its roof, though. The idea of flipping an S13 or sliding it sideways into a pole smacks of death to me. If you get T-boned on the driver's side, odds are you are dead. If it scares you that much, don't get one. The S chassis, really, most Nissans of that era are like aluminum cans, tough on the ends, weak on the sides. The crumple zones work in head on hits, truly, I've, um, "tested" it, but I have seen several Nissans tore in half from high speed side hits on poles including one GT-R that had the door sill on the driver's side driven all the way to the trans tunnel. I didn't take any parts off that car, creepy; I know that dude died.

On the seat belts. Four point is fine, BUT, you need to remember that the factory belts unreel in an accident and cushion the shock. Racing belts are rigid, they don't stretch. They are to be used with a full compliment of gear including a neck support to keep your head from snapping forward in a wreck which it most certainly will per Mr. Newton. All my hairy crashes were performed strapped in with factory 3 point belts. They work. If you are tracking the car, sure, go full harness with all the appropriate safety equipment, but on the street, stock is best.

Watch this video. While it is trying to sell you on this faux crisis about submarining it really better illustrates why racing harnesses demand racing dress. Watch how the stock belt reels out a bit to slow the body down versus the way the harness goes taut and snaps the body to a violent halt. That's where your neck breaks if you are not wearing proper support. Right about 14 seconds in you just became a quadriplegic.



Rollcage? Unless you plan on racing, no. If you want a rollcage because you are that scared of getting hurt in an accident then just don't get the car. That's ridiculous.

I put rollcages in my cars, but I drive like a knucklehead and the chances of me winding a car up at double the speed limit is very possible. I assume you are not encumbered with a similar balls:brains ratio and don't present a clear and present danger to yourself and others as I do. A rollcage in an S13 significantly tightens up what is otherwise a pretty flimsy chassis. The increased rigidity is very noticeable and the stiffer car is much more predictable to drive. Unless you go with a proper weld in cage with x bars on the door and a dashbar, though, a side hit is still going to wipe you out. You will increase your protection from a flip or an A-pillar strike, but, again, a professional level cage, not an escape type that wraps around the dash. Those flex. I saw a 180SX slide up a banked section on the outside of a corner and slide back down the hill into the back side of a light pole one night on, um, a "closed course." It crushed the driver's side corner A pillar and bent the curvy front leg of the escape cage he had pinning him in the car. Granted, without the cage, I think he might have drifted his last corner, but even though he survived they still had to cut the car, literally, off him, to load him in the ambulance.

Consider your options carefully. Life is filled with risk. You just have to decided how much you are willing to accept to do the things that interest you. Don't live in fear, certainly, but don't take pointless risks.

themadscientist wrote:I know it scares the kids, but us old farts survived all those dark ages before automakers aimed a shotgun at the drivers face. My BRZ has like six bags all around me. It doesnt make me feel safer. I feel like this guy.



Maybe I'm old and tough, but I've crashed more than my share of cars, none with airbags and have walked away without a scratch. I have never taken a side hit to the door or put a car on its roof, though. The idea of flipping an S13 or sliding it sideways into a pole smacks of death to me. If you get T-boned on the driver's side, odds are you are dead. If it scares you that much, don't get one. The S chassis, really, most Nissans of that era are like aluminum cans, tough on the ends, weak on the sides. The crumple zones work in head on hits, truly, I've, um, "tested" it, but I have seen several Nissans tore in half from high speed side hits on poles including one GT-R that had the door sill on the driver's side driven all the way to the trans tunnel. I didn't take any parts off that car, creepy; I know that dude died.

On the seat belts. Four point is fine, BUT, you need to remember that the factory belts unreel in an accident and cushion the shock. Racing belts are rigid, they don't stretch. They are to be used with a full compliment of gear including a neck support to keep your head from snapping forward in a wreck which it most certainly will per Mr. Newton. All my hairy crashes were performed strapped in with factory 3 point belts. They work. If you are tracking the car, sure, go full harness with all the appropriate safety equipment, but on the street, stock is best.

Watch this video. While it is trying to sell you on this faux crisis about submarining it really better illustrates why racing harnesses demand racing dress. Watch how the stock belt reels out a bit to slow the body down versus the way the harness goes taut and snaps the body to a violent halt. That's where your neck breaks if you are not wearing proper support. Right about 14 seconds in you just became a quadriplegic.

Rollcage? Unless you plan on racing, no. If you want a rollcage because you are that scared of getting hurt in an accident then just don't get the car. That's ridiculous.

I put rollcages in my cars, but I drive like a knucklehead and the chances of me winding a car up at double the speed limit is very possible. I assume you are not encumbered with a similar balls:brains ratio and don't present a clear and present danger to yourself and others as I do. A rollcage in an S13 significantly tightens up what is otherwise a pretty flimsy chassis. The increased rigidity is very noticeable and the stiffer car is much more predictable to drive. Unless you go with a proper weld in cage with x bars on the door and a dashbar, though, a side hit is still going to wipe you out. You will increase your protection from a flip or an A-pillar strike, but, again, a professional level cage, not an escape type that wraps around the dash. Those flex. I saw a 180SX slide up a banked section on the outside of a corner and slide back down the hill into the back side of a light pole one night on, um, a "closed course." It crushed the driver's side corner A pillar and bent the curvy front leg of the escape cage he had pinning him in the car. Granted, without the cage, I think he might have drifted his last corner, but even though he survived they still had to cut the car, literally, off him, to load him in the ambulance.

Consider your options carefully. Life is filled with risk. You just have to decided how much you are willing to accept to do the things that interest you. Don't live in fear, certainly, but don't take pointless risks.

Hey like I said before, I'm not worried about my own driving. I'm worried about the idiots that don't understand how to drive, or think they know but take their attention off the road way too much. I'm fine with dying, I don't really care about that part. I just don't want to be impaled and have to live with some horrible, painful damage. I believe everything happens for a reason I guess. I just feel safer in my Honda, but that's just cause I've driven it for so long (it was my first car, and I'm still driving it. I drove a truck for a while inbetween). Even tho if I would get T-boned, I'd probably be dead also. I'm pretty sure I only have the 2 airbags (driver and passenger). None of the other crazy ones, and my car is about as light as a 240 and probably similar to it's rigidity. Except mines a sedan accord.

And also about my driving, I'm not a p****. I at least go the pace of normal cars around me, which is usually 5-10mph over. But I don't like staying behind people, so I'm usually constantly passing. It kinda depends on my mode, but sometimes I just love speeding. A little too much, like 80 in a 30. Of course I only speed and drive reckless in Mexico, I don't dare drive carelessly in America. As long as it's not dark, and I can see any cops that might be hiding. Also, if I see opportunities to weave through traffic, it's really hard not to take them. Whenever you can get the rhythm of speeding through cars, and there's always an opening. Man, it's the best. It's so fun to me, but I try not to do it because: 1. I don't want another ticket and 2. I don't like putting other peoples lives in danger.

I think it just bothers me because japanese cars are just smaller, and side impacts are pretty life-threatening regardless of front airbags really. American cars from back before airbags were heard of were boats, and had a huge amount of rigidity for what they were. The wreck I mentioned I was in, in the post, was in a old 70's Chrysler. The wreck crumpled the hood almost to the glass and I'm sure the motor got knocked back a little also, but the impact was pretty minor for me. I didn't have an airbag, and I was the only one that wasn't in pain at all. I instantly got out and made sure everyone was ok. Also, the front glass didn't even break. Which I thought was weird, because the hood was almost at the window.

The only thing I want to avoid is being completely impaled, and living. Or getting some serious whiplash from being rear-ended. My neck already hurts daily from stress and anxiety, it's always stiff and usually mildly painful. I'm actually worried about the rear-ending more than the sides, because I will probably hear or see a car coming directly at my car. I'm not an idiot, so I don't pull out in front of cars or run red lights. I actually only turn whenever I know there is no chance of another car hitting me, I only have liability and I think that would put me in the wrong if I pulled out in front of someone. I'm an aggressive driver, but I'm also cautious and watch out for other people and also cops. I scan for cops everywhere I go, whether I'm speeding or not. I always have. My friends know I drive crazily sometimes, but they feel safe with me compared to some of my friends.

I'm not questioning your nuggets; let me be clear. Driving like an a** doesn't make one "manly" so that's not what I'm on about. I think you are worrying too much about it. Get hit hard enough from any direction and you are going to get messed up or killed, it's just physics. I think your defensive driving and due attention to the task at hand are going to contribute to you safety much more than what car you drive or whether it has a jungle gym in it. Get the car you like, maintain it properly, buckle up, drive sanely and alertly and enjoy the experience of driving; it's a really pure sense of freedom.

themadscientist wrote:I'm not questioning your nuggets; let me be clear. Driving like an a** doesn't make one "manly" so that's not what I'm on about. I think you are worrying too much about it. Get hit hard enough from any direction and you are going to get messed up or killed, it's just physics. I think your defensive driving and due attention to the task at hand are going to contribute to you safety much more than what car you drive or whether it has a jungle gym in it. Get the car you like, maintain it properly, buckle up, drive sanely and alertly and enjoy the experience of driving; it's a really pure sense of freedom.

Oh yeah, definitely lolol. I love driving, it's always been my freedom. I love exploring new roads and just cruising around a lot of the time. I usually only speed because I have to get to work and I'm almost always late if I don't. But other than that, it's just the urge. And I'm also trying to figure out what would be a better daily. I feel like the S14 would be the better choice, and I've also heard this. I usually see S14's as daily's with some fun, but S13's are usually drift missiles around me. I kinda just want to get good at drifting and whatnot whenever I'm bored, or just feel like it. But most of the time my car is going to be a daily, so I might end up getting a kouki S14 and have a S13 drift project. Actually yeah, that sounds like a good idea to me. Best of both worlds haha

I'd say S14. You can get it with that airbag you like, they are newer and less drift missily.

So I've seen lol, I would definitely work on a S13 Hatch for a project tho, that way I can practice and learn building and drifting without ruining my daily haha. The S14 look is growing on me, I love the kouki front. I just liked the novelty of the pop up lights, they grab attention and look different with today's cars

Pop Up Headlights FTW haha! I'll second (or third or millionth) the freedom of driving aspect. Driving = Freedom. Get a car you can afford to drive and enjoy. If you're stuck with payments, that affects your ability to drive and enjoy. If you're stuck with break downs and maintenance, that affects your ability to drive and enjoy.