Air...

Post by **Biggs2004** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

Ok, so we've all heard about how shooting compressed air down the intake won't help unless you're shooting more than 150mph worth, right? Well, here's a new question. If you put a jet nozzle in the cone intake before the mass airflow sensor (you're standard won't work compressed air down the tube idea), in combination with another jet in the exhaust piping, I'm talking a jet centered in the pipe that really "shoots" the gasses out, not just adding air to the exhaust, maybe before or after the catty, using a controlled release, via "nitrous button" or pedal activated button, at about 200psi would it substantually increase horsepower? The shots, of course, would be synchronized, and equal, and not used while shifting to avoid air bounce off the throttle plate. This is just another crazy idea of mine that just hit me tonight, I just thought I'd run it by you guys and let you chew on it awhile. any input would be appreciated.

Post by **IvoryJ30t** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

I now feel stupid having read that.Please dont ever repeat that to anyone that knows anything about cars.

Post by **IvoryJ30t** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

ever.

Post by **tl1000sga** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

:thumbd

Post by **corn322** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

and now for a helpful reply:

instead of shooting compressed air into the intake, which is like 20% oxygen, how about shooting nitrous oxide into the intake, which is 66% oxygen? of course, you'll have to add fuel to make up for the extra air to get more power.

having a jet in the exhaust system to "shoot" the exhaust gasses out would probably cause more problems than it solves. like how restrictive the nozzle and all would be.

Post by **IvoryJ30t** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

ok, im sorry for the inappropriate responsewell, back to the subject of it being a bad idea...its illogical to have a tank the size you would need to supply that kind of airflow.on top of that, if your gonna have a tank holding a compressed gas, then fill that tank with nitrous oxide.also, the nossle in the exhaust doesnt do anything for the motor.

Post by **IvoryJ30t** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

corn322 wrote:and now for a helpful reply:

instead of shooting compressed air into the intake, which is like 20% oxygen, how about shooting nitrous oxide into the intake, which is 66% oxygen? of course, you'll have to add fuel to make up for the extra air to get more power.

having a jet in the exhaust system to "shoot" the exhaust gasses out would probably cause more problems than it solves. like how restrictive the nozzle and all would be.

nitrous oxide is 33 percent oxygen, 66 percent nitrogen.just like air, only chemically bonded, not mixed.

Post by **corn322** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

awww... I thought it was 1 nitrogen and 2 oxygen. ah well, still better than just air.

Post by **LittleBrotherSilvia** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

IvoryJ30t wrote:ok, im sorry for the inappropriate responsewell, back to the subject of it being a bad idea...its illogical to have a tank the size you would need to supply that kind of airflow.on top of that, if your gonna have a tank holding a compressed gas, then fill that tank with nitrous oxide.also, the nossle in the exhaust doesnt do anything for the motor.

i dont think u completely get what hes saying...

but either way u can tell him it wont work without being a d**k, people on this board seem to have a problem with this, and i dont mean everybody.

Post by **IvoryJ30t** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

the heat of compression causes the bond between the nitrogen and the oxygen to break. when the n2o decomposes, it expands into individual oxygen and nitrogen atoms, providing the extra oxygen to burn the extra fuel injected with the n2o, causing the power.

Post by **tl1000sga** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

corn322 wrote:and now for a helpful reply:

instead of shooting compressed air into the intake, which is like 20% oxygen, how about shooting nitrous oxide into the intake, which is 66% oxygen? of course, you'll have to add fuel to make up for the extra air to get more power.

having a jet in the exhaust system to "shoot" the exhaust gasses out would probably cause more problems than it solves. like how restrictive the nozzle and all would be.

first of all, Nitrous Oxide is 33% oxygen. Second, N2O makes most of it's power by cooling the intake charge.

Post by **IvoryJ30t** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

LittleBrotherSilvia wrote:i dont think u completely get what hes saying...

but either way u can tell him it wont work without being a d**k, people on this board seem to have a problem with this, and i dont mean everybody.

i understand what hes saying, that part happened when i read it.

the tank required to hold that volume of air, the injecting of the air, and the nossle in the exhaust are a bad idea.

that pretty much rounds out the point he was trying to make.

Post by **AZhitman** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

The problem is the restrictiveness of the intake runners themselves. There's nothing to "force" the "injected" air to actually remain at that velocity all the way into the combustion chamber. Once it meets resistance it will become turbulent and may actually hurt power. That's why a Roots-type blower functiosn - The air charge can NOT reverse direction, and HAS to enter the chamber.

Injecting air into the exhaust? Might create a partial vacuum, but again, could also create a turbulence that acts like a potato jammed in the tailpipe.

Bak to the drawing board - Good to have ideas!

Keep in mind the concept of an "air door" like at the entrance to a grocery store.... It's cold inside, hot outside, yet the doors are open all day long. When you walk in, you walk through a "barrier" of pressurized air flowing downward from a grille in the ceiling to a grille in the floor. This creates a turbulence that serves to "seperate" the outside air from the inside air.

Post by **tl1000sga** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

:thumbup

Post by **Biggs2004** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

Well, it's like I said, it was just a brain storm. and the more I think about it, it does seem rather dumb.... just a though on the whim from last night. Except for the exhaust jet, it occurs to me that everybody wants a less restrictive exhaust right? well if you match that with forcing the exhaust out of the pipe, wouldn't that increase horsepower? seems plausable to me, and as far as restrictive jets go, have you ever used an air compressor jet for shop clean up, instead of a broom to sweep the floor? it would be something to that effect except a concentrated flow, most likely behind the catty, on the straight end of the exhaust pipe. once again, it's just a THOUGHT.... thanks again.

Post by **Biggs2004** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

[QUOTE]Originally posted by AZhitman "]The problem is the restrictiveness of the intake runners themselves. There's nothing to "force" the "injected" air to actually remain at that velocity all the way into the combustion chamber. Once it meets resistance it will become turbulent and may actually hurt power. That's why a Roots-type blower functiosn - The air charge can NOT reverse direction, and HAS to enter the chamber.

My aim there wasn't exactly velocity, but abundance, I was thinking more along the lines of when you mash the gas with a stock restrictive intake, your engine craves the air, yet can't get enough, but when you have a CAI or an open air element, you increase air flow by less restriction, and colder denser air. (I know you already knew that, but that's what helped me form the idea) My aim for the injected compressed air to be cold, and abundant, to decrease lag when smashing the gas.... I know a turbo does about the same thing, but I was thinking more along the lines of temporary boost. Still I realize that it won't work, I just wanted everybody to know where I was comming from...

Post by **PROJECTRB240SX** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

JUST INJECT PURE OXYGEN, THAT'LL GIVE YOU ALL KINDS OF HORSEPOWER.

BTW I AM JUST KIDDING, N2O IS PROBABLY THE SAFEST/WORTHWHILE METHOD TO INCREASE COLD OXYGEN INDUCTION.

Post by **Biggs2004** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

PROJECTRB240SX wrote:JUST INJECT PURE OXYGEN, THAT'LL GIVE YOU ALL KINDS OF HORSEPOWER.

BTW I AM JUST KIDDING, N2O IS PROBABLY THE SAFEST/WORTHWHILE METHOD TO INCREASE COLD OXYGEN INDUCTION.

HAHAHA! pure Oxygen.... only if I want 4 pipe bombs going off right in my face :P I know that's not smart. thanks though

Post by **Onizuka** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

if you were just injecting compressed air into the intake, it will take the easiest route out, and that is back out the airfilter. The only way abundences of air work is if it is being forced into the motor via turbo or supercharger.

Post by **crzycav86** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

If you wanna blow up your engine, inject pure oxygen at 200 psi...

It'll go lean like a mofo in seconds.... It's been tried before

Post by **AZhitman** » Thu Oct 23, 2003 6:13 pm

Biggs2004 wrote: I was thinking more along the lines of when you mash the gas with a stock restrictive intake, your engine craves the air, yet can't get enough, but when you have a CAI or an open air element, you increase air flow by less restriction, and colder denser air.

Actually, Q45tech has done some tests on a factory 1st-gen Q45 intake. The design is such that even at WOT, the intake provides more than enough incoming air to feed combustion.

Keep in mind on the exhaust issue that *some* backpressure is actually beneficial.

Air...

Air...

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