AGX + rs*r race springs

[LiU]

OK I've pretty much decided my set up.That should be $430 + $230 = close to $700 for the whole thing.

I really wanted some springs that have high spring rates (equal to that of coilover springs) and are linear but I can only find them on coilovers, which brings me to the question, why are ONLY coilovers paired w/ such nice, linear, high rated springs?

As far as I know the only difference between the coilover sleeve kits like the GC and regular springs is the height adjustability.

[Exar-Kun]

coilovers damper are build to better take the abuse of a high spring rate..-chet

[BadMojo]

I've always been under the impression that higher rate lowering springs were available in Japan, but not here. As far as I can recall, those RS*R Race springs weren't distributed in the US until very recently.

Like Chet said, it's tough to find a shock valved for a spring rate that high. I'm curious to see if the AGX's can hold up with that spring rate. KYB has said that the AGX's can handle a spring 50% stiffer than stock, which, IMO is a pretty wimpy rate for a lowering spring. I guess we'll find out if KYB is just being overly conservative.

I emailed Koni NA and asked them about the spring rate on the RS*R Race springs. They replied that the rate wouldn't be a problem for the Koni's.

I'd like to try the AGX's + the RS*R Race springs, but I'm going to wait it out and see how others are doing with that setup in a few months. It seems like it would be a nice alternative to something like the Tein HA's or JIC SF1's.

The Koni's and RS*R springs would be a great match, but unforuntately the Koni's aren't externally adjustable in the rear.

[LiU]

hmm, well I'm sure they'll last awhile since there are ppl running GC with much higher spring rates w/ the AGX and they seem to have no problem. I contacted KYB and they did say that "race" springs void the warranty. But it seemed to me that the definition between race and street/mild is kind of undefinite.

[BadMojo]

I really haven't heard much either way about the longevity of the AGX's that GC uses. You are correct that the Eibach Race Springs that GC uses are much, much stiffer than the RS*R springs.

I think the RS*R "race" springs are racing springs in name only. In reality, I'd consider them an aggressive street springs. A rate of 5 kgf/mm front and 4.5 kgf/mm is hardly race worthy.

I know the KYB warranty has a part that mentions excessive lowering. I'd be curious to see if it mentions anything about high spring rates. AFAIK, the RS*R "race" springs don't lower the car enough to void the KYB warranty, so as long as the spring rate isn't mentioned in the warranty text I'd think you'd be covered.

I suppose there's only one real way to find out...

[LiU]

yea, the lowering is withiin the warranty, and I asked a KYB representative, he did save "race" springs void the warranty, but like you said, he did not mention anything about spring rates, yup I will report back on whether they work.

[Holisticbeatz]

OK I've pretty much decided my set up.That should be $430 + $230 = close to $700 for the whole thing.

I'm assuming that the $430 are for the shocks. That's a pretty steep price comparatively speaking. I found this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...74559 the other night. There's a "Buy-it Now" option and shipping is $30... just trying to save you some money

-kenny

[offtheline]

man... 430 is a rediculous price for kyb agx. You are getting ripped off if you pay that much. coximport.com is where most people go. I believe that its 370 shipped.

[BadMojo]

man... 430 is a rediculous price for kyb agx. You are getting ripped off if you pay that much. coximport.com is where most people go. I believe that its 370 shipped.

Believe it or not, the price for AGX's for an S14 have jumped up to $445 (shipped). I'd imagine it's a matter of KYB seeing increased demand for the S14 shocks, and taking advantage of it.

Shox.com usually has good prices, and I *think* they'll price match.

[LiU]

I believe the 370 at coximprots is for s13s, I have a s14

[offtheline]

Oh my goodness... its true! The price for agx jumped to 445! Honestly, a few weeks ago it was 370 for the s14. I know this for a fact. All I can say is go to tornactive.com and find their phone number. They quoted me 365 for the set of agx for an s14. That was a few months ago, but it is worth a shot.

[dennis]

does anyone know the spring rate on the ground controls? my freind got them but he doesnt know the spring rates.

[LiU]

alright, thanks for all the input, I willd efinitley shop around before I buy them... Deniis the ground controls have diff spring rates, they are custom to your liking

[MainEvent212]

what kinda shocks to the japanese guys use w/ RS*R springs?

[Grant@tirerack]

The other main reason you need beefier dampers with coilovers is due to the increased binding force. If you look at most O.E. strut/spring setups, the springs are side-loaded (the strut is off-center inside the spring) to compensate for the change in angle as the suspension moves up and down. This reduces the force applied to the strut rod as it enters the strut housing when everything moves. It keeps the forces on the strut rod in line with the strut body, valves, seals, etc... With a coilover, you get more force pushing the rod sideways since it is not side loaded. The force on the strut rod is not in line with the damper body because the spring and mount are all in line and centered with the strut. This causes binding as the suspension moves up and down and the rod is slightly bent sideways as it moves into the damper seals, bushings, and valving area. With most stock strut/spring setups, the force required to start the assembly moving is about 60lbs. With a coilover it can be as much as 250lbs because of the binding when the strut rod is pushed slightly sideways at the same time. That is why most coilover dampers have to be a lot beefier to handle the additional stresses involved. When ever possilble get a damper that is matched and designed for the coilover you are using. They will last much longer. The AGX can handle the firmer spring rates but not the binding forces. I don't think they would last long with a threaded sleeve setup like that. They are designed for side-loaded applications.

[LiU]

the rsr springs are not threaded sleeves, you mus be refering to the GCs

[Grant@tirerack]

That is correct. Again, they can handle the increased spring rates with aftermarket springs but not threaded set ups like GC. They may work for awhile but will not hold up very long in 'spirited' driving. Dang, you guys are up on this stuff! We are impressed!:)

[BadMojo]

Maybe I'm paranoid, but I'll let a few others road test the AGX + RS*R "race" spring combo before I dive in.

Grant: Are you aware if KYB's warranty specifically references spring rates? I know they list a number with regards to lowering (ie. how much you can do without voiding your warranty).

A lot of folks say that the AGX's on the higher settings lead to a over-damping, so maybe they'll match up nicely with the RS*R spring rates.

I *believe* the AGX's coarsely adjust both bump and rebound (not independently, of course) so that might be an additional advantage when matching with the stiffer springs.

[LiU]

badmojo i contacted KYB and any lowering over 1.5 in or any springs that are 50% stiffer than stock will void the warranty... the rs*r race springs are 5.0 kg/mm front and 4.2kg/mm rear, the stock is WAY less than that so the warranty would be void.

[mightymouse0x]

if you want to spend close to 700 bucks on an ok suspension upgrade, you might as well go for these http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors...81707 it has a buy it now option. its only a lil more money, and u get that stiffer ride, plus a nice coilover set.

[Grant@tirerack]

The AGX will work fine with most of the aftermarket springs intended for street use. If a customer is looking at the Eibach Sportline or H&R Race springs, we tend to get them into something like the Koni Sports. The AGX is what it is, a good upgrade for street use. I am not familiar with the RS*R springs' specs but in general, you are correct, if they are more than a 1.5" drop, look at another damper setup. They would be too firm to use the AGX.

[BadMojo]

The RS*R springs have an advertised drop of 1.4" in the front and 1.2" in the back, so they're OK as far as ride height goes (with regards to the KYB warranty).

The spring rate is *far* more than that of the OE springs. Stock is 112lb/in and the RS-R "race" are something like 279 lb/in in the front and 251 lb/in in the rear for an S13.

Stiff linear rate spring with a mild drop is a very appealing idea, just don't know about the damper issue.

Unfortunately, the Koni Sport's don't offer external adjustability in the rears for the 240SX. It would be a big pain in the butt to remove the shock from the car every time you wanted to tweak something. Koni *has* said that the RS*R springs wouldn't be a problem at all for the Sport shocks.

[CA19DET]

if you are spending 700 why not save the extra 400-500 and get some good coilovers from tein???

[Grant@tirerack]

279 and 250?!? For street use? I'm thinking a couple of bran muffins, a hot cup of joe, and a 20min. commute in the morning with those on the car and you'd always be a regular guy:pface

[BadMojo]

if you are spending 700 why not save the extra 400-500 and get some good coilovers from tein???

$400 or $500 is quite a bit more than $700. Besides, something in the $1000-1200 will still only get you something in Tein's "entry level" range.

If you stick with your original budget, you could get the Tein Basic dampers, which have height but not damping adjustability. They have a spring rate that's a bit stiffer than the RS-R "race" springs. I have no idea what ride quality would be like. I think that would depend quite a bit on the valving of the dampers. Other than that, I can't think of a coilover from a high quality manufacturer that would be available for that price.

IMO, it's easier to buy a new AGX or Koni Sport shock than to send a blown Tein coilover out for rebuild and wait X weeks to get it back.

The big benefit to buying a coilover from Tein, JIC, etc. would be that you wouldn't have to worry about your shocks matching up well with your springs, not to mention that installation would be 100% easier.

[T_love]

Does Groung Control have the spring setup for the s14 with AGXs yet? Last time i checked they only had a setup for the Konis or something.

[LiU]

you can call them and ask, but I'm pretty sure they do offer it.

Yes I realize $450+$230 = close to $700... but it is still a good coupla hundred away from the entry Teni coilovers. And yes, it is alot easier to replace AGXs then the coilovers.

I am planning suspension on a budget, but then again, every1 is on a budget. But I will definitley keep an open mind, since this suspension won't be in for another 5 or 6 months, by then maybe I will have enough $$ to get a coilover set up.

BTW, what about the APEX'i world class? They are alot cheaper, but they won't include mounts, which are pretty inexpensive.

--This is completly off topic--I have had a tough week, our newly adopted puppy had to be put down cuz of Parvo. Even though she was new to our family, you'd be surprised how quickly those eyes of hers make you become attached. I'm not trying to sound smart *** or anything, but when someone close to you is hurt or is dying, it really makes everything else like nice cars/material things seem insignificant and it really helps put things in perspective.

[Exar-Kun]

apexi world sports are only 30%(if I recall correctly) stiffer, and dont offer a whole lot for the true enthusiest. If you're looking to sport up your daily driver, they work great, but for racing, they're a bit soft...

-chet

[LiU]

oh yea, how long do tein coilovers last under "spirited" driving?

and how much usually is re-valving or repairing or replacement?

the general consensus is that the kyb AGX is doubtful to last w/ such stiff springs it imght be more economically better to get coilvoers after all...

[Exar-Kun]

TEIN makes great stuff, I dont hear much about having to rebuild them...unless someone did something wrong(like hit a burm)-chet