aftermarket injectors

[redamnavit]

Yes, yet another injector thread.

Has anyone had any experience with Lucas or Sieman Deka injectors? I've seen both used in DSMs which leads me to believe they'll fit our fuel rails. I couldn't find anything on quality or reliability, etc. though. Just one KA-T thread with an offhand mention of the Dekas.

If anyone has had experience with any other non-OEM injector brands, this may be a good place to post them.

[Projex240]

They will fit the KA ril. They are msd/bosh style injectors. he KA requires an top feed rail, but the injectors are great.

http://WWW.racetronix.com has, by far, the best deal around for the 245 shipped for 4 72 lb injectors.

-Josh

[boost_boy]

Quote »WWW.racetronix.com has, by far, the best deal around for the 245 shipped for 4 72 lb injectors.[/quote] I just purchased some 95 lb/hr units for $273 shipped and I think they are indeed a good source for low cost, quality injectors.

Dee

[Projex240]

OMG--95 lb injectors---wont those beoverkill--the 75lb/hr ones support over 550 to the wheels. With injectors that big--a standalone is the only way to go---you must have a HUGE project going on!!!

[Jezz_s13]

LOL 95lb injectors are just the ticket.

[nab911]

I found a calculator somwhere that said 75 lb/hr for around 350-400

[NeedCAforS13]

OMG--95 lb injectors---wont those beoverkill--the 75lb/hr ones support over 550 to the wheels. With injectors that big--a standalone is the only way to go---you must have a HUGE project going on!!!

lol you have no idea:icesangel

Sean

[Jezz_s13]

that calculator was wrong.

550cc have been ran at 450fwbhp (over pressured) in two CA's in the UK.

[boost_boy]

Quote »OMG--95 lb injectors---wont those beoverkill--the 75lb/hr ones support over 550 to the wheels. With injectors that big--a standalone is the only way to go---you must have a HUGE project going on!!![/quote] Please abuse the search button:D ! Quote »lol you have no idea[/quote] And Sean is right on this one! By using the search button, you will be able review this forums archives and see the history of what's to come. All the homework has been done and that my friend was the last piece of the parts equation. Quote »I found a calculator somwhere that said 75 lb/hr for around 350-400[/quote] That calculator is not realistic of what 720cc or 72 lb/hr injectors are capable of. 500+hp is where they start having fun on this motor. 95 lb/hr or 1000cc is capable of supporting over 700hp on this motor. Quote »LOL 95lb injectors are just the ticket.[/quote] It's showtime "Jezz" and will you be joining me?

To add to the rest of the goodies, i wil be toggling back and forth between JUN 270* cams with a 10.5mm lift (intake and exhaust) as well as some experimental racing cams that 276* wirh a 11.5mm lift (intake) and 264* with 11.35mm lift on the exhaust side and all of course actuating JUN solid lifters and JUN racing valve srpings. We'll find out just how good my tuning really is, but 1st I must extract at least 500+whp out of my g/f's CA.

Dee

[Jezz_s13]

yeah i ordered my 950's when i ordered my turbo, all being well I may have them next week.

SPL are on hols this week so will be ordering my cams/lifters etc next week.

[redamnavit]

They will fit the KA ril. They are msd/bosh style injectors. he KA requires an top feed rail, but the injectors are great.

http://WWW.racetronix.com has, by far, the best deal around for the 245 shipped for 4 72 lb injectors.

-Josh

Which injectors are you referring to? racetronix sells both Lucas and Sieman Deka. I'm putting these in a CA, btw; I just searched the Engine forums as a whole hence the KA reference.

[fanta]

http://WWW.racetronix.com has, by far, the best deal around for the 245 shipped for 4 72 lb injectors.

-Josh

[Projex240]

go with the delphi injectors. seimen dekas are ok too--theres really no difference in the two. They are both bosch/msd style and "shoul" fit in the cas rail. Does anyone here use the ms dinjectors in there ca?

You said you were looking for top feeds right?

[Projex240]

Please abuse the search button:D ! And Sean is right on this one! By using the search button, you will be able review this forums archives and see the history of what's to come. All the homework has been done and that my friend was the last piece of the parts equation.... Dee

I hate that---"use the search button.."the search system sucks. Telling people to use the search button discourages them from asking questions. Alot of times, the qeustion may become redundant, but thats the nature of an online community. Newbs (like myself in the CA forum) are here to ask questions and learn. I used the search feature for over 3 hours, and came up with nothing but a bunch of scattered info that didnt help me at all. Very few facts can be found in the search feild, ( like where the heck to find cams and intake manis and tubular exhaust manis for ex) and as far as i knew, this guy could have changed his mind a million times between posts on here as to which direction his project was taking. I will use the search button now to "try" to find out what his project is looking like--but i still stand behind this--i think 95 lb injectors are overkill. enjukracing uses border 850 wiht NO HOPE of maxing them out on a stock bottom ended sr with NO headwork--they laid down 550 to the wheels. tuning 95 lb injectors will be very hard when it comes to getting a good idle. Im not bashing though--i wish you good luck witht eh projects you guys take on--it helps me to learn. It should be sick either way.once again--good luck

--Josh

[boost_boy]

Hey Josh,

You are entitled to your opinion about the search button, but i still stand behind my original post that it's best you use it 1st and if then you don't find what you're looking for, someone within this community (if not myself) would be happy to assist you or anyone. But when someone wants information that was discussed in depth here, they will get the response "use the search button" or the may not get no response.

Quote »enjukracing uses border 850 wiht NO HOPE of maxing them out on a stock bottom ended sr with NO headwork--they laid down 550 to the wheels.[/quote] That's enjuku racing and their SR20, not a CA18. These figures aren't something that just popped-up overnight about what can do what. The SR20, though a marvelous engine in the average racer/drifter's eyes does not act like nor look like nor share any charctersitics with the CA18DET, so it would be worthless to compare the two.

Dee

[boost_boy]

Quote »Does anyone here use the ms dinjectors in there ca? [/quote] I do and they fit just fine. Been using them for the past 5 years. First MSD 50 lb/hr and now 72 lb/hr units in my g/f's car.

Dee

[Jezz_s13]

As I've mentioned before the Ex-ND CA runs 1000cc jobs at 92% with 516@hubs.

I admit that sounds a bit short but you can't really argue with the facts, but I can only assume he may be running lower pressure, perhaps to help idle.Also there's a chance it's mapped a bit richer ~11-11.5 to keep the temps down a bit.

Oh it also has a pretty high rev limit.

[Projex240]

I used it for three hours--i already said that. Telling someone to use the search function says that you assume that they havent already. Like I said--it discourages people from asking questions. I searched for this project for a while, and still ma-using terms as ca 95 lb injectors", "ca project:(very broad--should have pulled up more), etc--still nothing. The search funstion sucks--lol.

The comparison is what the injectors can hold out , not the motor they are used on. The motors are different, but not so different. Theres nothing that the ca uses that the sr doesnt use. MAf, coil packs, DOHC, revs above 7200 safely, etc. So the fact that they are only seperated by .2 liters of displacement doesnt mean tehy share "any charactoristics" Except for the torque numbers and the power bancd, hp is hp. The ca wont be able to take advantage of the 95 lb injectors, and when revving from a stop, they will most likely cause the car to bog down. Those 850s regardless of motor will support more fuel than 550 to the wheels.If this person is using 95 lb injectors, then they would support of 800 or so to the wheels. Overkill CAN happen, and is not a good thing, And if its too big, then at idle, you could run the risk of washing the cylinder walls at idle unless you are running a full standalone, which im sure you are. Washing the walls--you can kiss his bottom end good bye. Bearings, rings, etc--theyll all take a crap. like i said--im sure youre using a standalone though.Heres the problem though. Even with a standalone, you cant enter a negative value with the pulse duty, wither at idel or whenever. So if the injector is spraying too much at idle, you wont be able to adjustit enough. eve going down by 50 percent, it will still be spraying the duty cycle of a idling 440cc injector. 440's dont even spray full volume at idle, they are leaned out to prevent too much fuel from entering the combustion chamber.Im sure you have figured a way around this, i wish you all the good luck.

-Josh

[Projex240]

I do and they fit just fine. Been using them for the past 5 years. First MSD 50 lb/hr and now 72 lb/hr units in my g/f's car.

Dee

Havent used them in a CA, but in the KA they work great too--a real favorite in that crowd--the sr guys use them too--though not as much as from what i can see-they stick more the drop in side feed injectors.MSd/bosch/delhpi---injectors work great.

[Projex240]

As I've mentioned before the Ex-ND CA runs 1000cc jobs at 92% with 516@hubs.

I admit that sounds a bit short but you can't really argue with the facts, but I can only assume he may be running lower pressure, perhaps to help idle.Also there's a chance it's mapped a bit richer ~11-11.5 to keep the temps down a bit.

Oh it also has a pretty high rev limit.

sounds sweet. I dont know why it would be so low.SOmetime s atuner will use a very conservative timing map thinking it will run "safer". WHat this does is raise egt's in response--so they dump more fuel in. instead, having to little timing is the problem. Add more timing and keep the fuel straight, yuoll make more power. Theres always the question of compression. The dyno operator could have been operating it wrong, not loading the motor correctly. Youre right though---512 sounds kinda low for those size injectors.example--alot of people say that you cant go above 330ish whp on the with 50lb injectors. ivan at spracing justmade over 400 to the wheels on a stock bottom ended ka-t. using 50lb injectors. theres no way that the ka head outflows the ca head at higher revs. just an example--Im not trying to tell you what to do, only givin my input, so ill knock it off. Just saying--with good tuing, there no need to use 95 lb injectors until you are getting over 6 to the wheels IMO. a buddies b18gsr uses an sc61 adn makes 571 at the wheels. he uses seien deka 75lb pre hour injecotrs, and has plenty to spare--he could go over 600--maybe 625 with those injectors. and hes only using hondata. Liek i said though--good tuning will go all the long way you want.

-Josh

[nab911]

Just wait for dee to say.... those arnt ca's

[Projex240]

lol---alrighty.

Im just saying. It dosnt matter the motor you use most time(rotary motors exc). Physics are physics. I like the ca alot, and fully intend to start on mine very soon, but its not a mythical motor that acts differently than any other internal combustion motor. A CA regardless of state will make the same power the same way. No doubt they arent ca's, but they make power the same way--suck squish bang blow

-Josh

[boost_boy]

Quote »ivan at spracing justmade over 400 to the wheels on a stock bottom ended ka-t. using 50lb injectors. theres no way that the ka head outflows the ca head at higher revs.[/quote] But you would be asking for trouble with 50 lb/hr injectors on a CA if you were targeting 400hp. I'll post this again, at 18psi my g/f's was at 109% duty with the MSD 50 lb/hr injectors (That's scary). For starters, I do tune with a standalone and wouldlike to think that I am very competent at it. Everything you're discussing right now, I've tested, tried, pushed, shoved any and everything in and around my g/f's motor. The idea was not to extract max hp out of her CA18, but to get a better understanding of what I was working with. I have better than 7 years experience with the CA series motor, so I hear you, but it isn't a whole lot you can convince me on as to what this motor likes and don't like (I know it very well). Comparison to other motors are not something I do when it comes to my specialty. I've tuned Srs on the same standalone system I use and for the most part, they performed very well. So to make a long story short, been in the (CA18) game for a long and have paid my dues for the knowledge I have. So until you've actually owned one, totally exploited it, wrenched on it, blown a few in the name R&D and can make one produce upwards of 300whp on pump gas with that much power as an everyday setting, I just hear you.

Dee

[Projex240]

fair enough---no need to take offense. Been in the car game a long time myself. Just tryig to give some feedback to chew on.

I definately am saying there is no way that you could use 50 lb injectors. I never meant that, just was wondering why 95 lbers and not 75lbers--but there no sense in debating, it. Whatever works for you. Again,

Good luck,

Josh

[boost_boy]

Quote »no need to take offense.[/quote] None taken, trust me! Debates are good if everybody is sharp and experienced at the subject at hand. I've done most nissan engines and I can say that I only speak what I know is factual from experiences.............

Dee

[Jezz_s13]

From my experience with the CA I'd say Dee is closer to the mark here...

Stockers 370 will give 280 flat out.444's about 350 again flat out.I've seen 2 450fly CA's running 550, but at high pressure and 100+% duty.

That's kind of where it ends tohugh as the UK has been stuck in a rut from believeing tuners for too long and people not getting off their arses (a55es to you ) and doing it for themselves.

Some people think i'm mad on SXOC, but bollocks to it, if/when i succeed then it'll be different and I will tell them what I've done.Tuners tend to be a bit conservative when it comes to giving the game away.720's are a safer bet.

[boost_boy]

If I knew in the beginning, I would've started with the 72 lb/hr injectors. The 50 lb/hr units will get you to 300+whp and if you don't own a standalone or some day device to tell you what's the injector duty cycle, your engine will get owned.

Dee

[redamnavit]

go with the delphi injectors. seimen dekas are ok too--theres really no difference in the two. They are both bosch/msd style and "shoul" fit in the cas rail. Does anyone here use the ms dinjectors in there ca?

You said you were looking for top feeds right?

Yes, top feeds. I'll check out the delphis then. The reason I asked about the siemans and the lucas injectors is that I see them a lot on ebay, which either means a)they're popular && cheap or b) they're poor quality, and I wanted to sort out what people felt about them.

btw, WHAT THE F**K HAPPENNED TO MY THREAD? All I asked for was a little advice on injectors brands, I wake up in the morning and its worse than a sewing circle. Just relax people.

[cortina-mk1]

im running seimens 770cc injectors on custom fuel railwork great and great idle with autronic SMChttp://www.autronic.com/page_files/injectors.htm