aftermarket in dash nav?

[sentrastace]

Anyone here have an aftermarket in dash nav with all the bells and whistles like bluetooth and ipod aux, Xm ready, etc...? That's pretty much my next little gift for my car... and I've been looking around on crutchfield and such but I'm also looking at the much cheaper off brand ones on ebay too. they're getting positive user reviews but I need more comprehensive reviews/opinions.i'm thinking you get what you pay for in 1) the display doesnt look as pretty and 2) maybe they crap out on you later? anyone have experiences with these off brands?

Gracias!

[numbnuts240]

you're better off talking to broadfield. call him kunta kinte and tell him learned'd sent you, he'll hook you up.

[AppleBonker]

With car A/V, you definitely get what you pay for. The car is a much more difficult environment for audio reproduction. Crap in, crap out. Talking to Broadfield would be a good idea, as he can give some advice as well as get you some decent deals I believe.

For all the bells and whistles, it'll cost you a pretty penny. I have been happy with my Alpine head units, but the head unit alone is probably not quite as capable as the Kenwood units. For what you are likely looking to do, my recommendation would be Kenwood. And, max out your budget.

[Mr1der]

lol....Toby rocks.

I guess I'm a simple person...I have a 100 dollar Garmin that I <3

I can walk around town with it in my hand if I do so desire as it's just a small 3" unit.

Tito, you can keep the pen15 reference to yourself.

in that special little place in your heart you keep me in.

[zerepdivad]

I'd recommend a Kenwood in dash unit mainly because some of them come with built in Garmin navigation. Although I myself have a Pioneer Avic D3, which uses discs for the navigation. I don't ever actually use the navigation though. I've put in enough of the knockoffs for friends, and customers and they displays aren't as nice, motors burn out quickly on the flip outs etc.

[Dano]

Too bad you don't have a frontier:

http://www.thenismoshop.com/ik...12975

[93coupe]

[Bmore-coupe]

Tito, you can keep the pen15 reference to yourself.

in that special little place in your a** that you keep me in.

FTFY

[93coupe]

lol....Toby rocks.

I can walk around town with it in my hand if I do so desire as it's just a small 3" unit.

[numbnuts240]

Tito, you can keep the pen15 reference to yourself.

in that special little place in your heart you keep me in.

i love you too shnook'ums.

Toby

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIDxR6xdur4

[PoorManQ45]

I would not recommend an in dash navigation unit.

The problem with these is that the radio typically mounts so low that you have to take your eyes way off the road.

I would recommend watching http://www.slickdeals.net for a deal on a nice 4.3" GPS. They go on sale for ~$50 for time to time.

If you are driving a Sentra I believe your stock head unit is a single din.

I definitely recommend something with a built in HD Tuner. XM Ready simply means that you can buy the external tuner. They usually go for $100 by themselves, not a good deal at all...

[Speedy7_7]

I had a Kenwood 5160 in dash Nav/DVD. I loved it to death.

[RobPaulson]

With car A/V, you definitely get what you pay for. The car is a much more difficult environment for audio reproduction. Crap in, crap out. Talking to Broadfield would be a good idea, as he can give some advice as well as get you some decent deals I believe.

For all the bells and whistles, it'll cost you a pretty penny. I have been happy with my Alpine head units, but the head unit alone is probably not quite as capable as the Kenwood units. For what you are likely looking to do, my recommendation would be Kenwood. And, max out your budget.

this man knows his A/V, listen to him!

[EW]

Alpine good. Kenwood good. Off brand flea market crap is crap. Don't be tricked into buying garbage just because it saves you a nickel.

[PoorManQ45]

Actually that is incorrect.

A preamp is a preamp.

I have yet to see a HU that measured an unacceptably high noise floor.

The saying "garbage in, garbage out" applies here. The signal is the most important part, not the processing done to it. If you have a poorly recorded song, it wont sound better on an expensive unit.

A well recorded song wont sound better on an expensive unit either.

It is all a myth.

A preamps job is to take the incoming signal and boost it to an acceptable level for the amplifier to be able to potentially reach maximum output.

The preamp should, and shall not, modify the signal in any way, shape, or form. Any modification is a form of distortion as it is not in the original signal.

The same thing applies for amplifiers. If one amplifier sounds different then the other then one of them is inducing some form of distortion in to the signal somewhere along the line. Not a good thing.

All you need is a device that has the features that you are looking for and is acceptable in appearance. The brand does not matter much anymore.

[Jesda]

You'll probably find that the cheapest "name brand" models out there are from Pioneer, but their entry-level versions take forever to start up. This means you're stuck waiting 20-30 seconds until you get access to maps and music.

In most modern cars like the Cadillac DTS and probably the Maxima, the navigation systems still take a long time to boot but they initialize when you press the unlock button on the key fob. By the time you sit down and start, you're ready to go.

You get what you pay for. That said, my $55 RW400 GPS unit from Microcenter gets me around the country accurately and without lag. It also plays music and video, so it ends up being my all-in-one multimedia system. I ran a wire behind the wood trim to the cassette adapter for audio input. Doesn't look great like a fully integrated system though.

[AppleBonker]

Sometimes you make me want to punch a baby.

I have yet to see a HU that measured an unacceptably high noise floor.

This may very well be true, but how would you measure the noise floor of a head unit? Are you looking at the electrical signals from the preamp outputs? Measured with what device? Or, are you looking at the powered output from the amplified speaker wires? Again, with what measuring tool? You've measured these yourself? Or are you trusting a supposed third-party reviewer.

So you want to get technical and call it a preamp, fair enough. However, most users run the interior speakers of a car off the head unit's built-in amplifier, making it a preamp/amp combo. Disregarding the distortion and audio quality issues that might be generated by poor components, the off-name brand will almost certainly not hold up as long as a better unit. Sure, some of the inflated costs may be paying for a name tag on the device, but most of it goes towards better components and QA.

The preamp should, and shall not, modify the signal in any way, shape, or form. Any modification is a form of distortion as it is not in the original signal.

Speaking theoretically, sure. But you might have missed this: the car is far from an ideal listening environment. Modifications to the audio signal prior to amplification can be used to correct some of these deficiencies. It'd be cool if my car didn't transmit sound from outside, and be completely anechoic. But I've yet to see one of those on the road...

The same thing applies for amplifiers. If one amplifier sounds different then the other then one of them is inducing some form of distortion in to the signal somewhere along the line. Not a good thing.

Man, there are so many other features about amplifiers that would alter one's selection. What class amp is it? How much power does it supply? Heat generated? Input voltage required? Impedance stability?

And you're speaking theoretically once again. All parts of the audio system introduce noise. It is basically unavoidable. Unless you buy some really high end equipment (which goes against your own argument that an amp/preamp is an amp/preamp).

Finally, I would guess you're looking at technical specs. In life, specs aren't everything. You can really only measure so much.

[PoorManQ45]

Ugh... If you want to go I'll go, but I suggest you search the electrical section before you get your butt handed to you.

This may very well be true, but how would you measure the noise floor of a head unit? Are you looking at the electrical signals from the preamp outputs? Measured with what device? Or, are you looking at the powered output from the amplified speaker wires? Again, with what measuring tool? You've measured these yourself? Or are you trusting a supposed third-party reviewer.

One, the input signal is measured using an oscilloscope. This allows you to view the electrical signal.

The signal is then in turn plugged in to your hu/preamp, with all sound altering features turned off, and again measured at the preamp outputs of the hu/preamp.

You can compare the incoming to outgoing signal using this method. 1/16th~1/64th stepping should be used.

So you want to get technical and call it a preamp, fair enough. However, most users run the interior speakers of a car off the head unit's built-in amplifier, making it a preamp/amp combo. Disregarding the distortion and audio quality issues that might be generated by poor components, the off-name brand will almost certainly not hold up as long as a better unit. Sure, some of the inflated costs may be paying for a name tag on the device, but most of it goes towards better components and QA.

Do you know how an amplifier even works? All HUs will output relatively the same power. I'm not sure if you have every taken a HU apart, but there is no stepup transformer in them. There is a step down coil, that is all. You will get ~10~14w output from this setup using an input of 14.4v. The claims of 50x4 are pure BS.

I have yet to hear of any components that have such a bad track record as to want to avoid them. I've seen Pyle and pyramid HUs outlast Eclipse and Alpine HUs. So what...

It is very hard to screw up a setup like this

Speaking theoretically, sure. But you might have missed this: the car is far from an ideal listening environment. Modifications to the audio signal prior to amplification can be used to correct some of these deficiencies. It'd be cool if my car didn't transmit sound from outside, and be completely anechoic. But I've yet to see one of those on the road...

That is all fine and well. This comes in with your feature set. If you want individual signal delay you need an HU with that capability.

That is the best feature to have in a vehicle due to the relative distances of each speaker to the driver's head.

Unfortunately this is also the worst feature for everyone but the driver...

Either way, if the unit has a feature that you want/need, get it, regardless of brand...

Sound should be controlled primarily with your selection of speakers.

Trying to overcome Nulls with equalization is a BAD IDEA. You will very quickly run out of power and/or excursion and still get minimal results.

For a proper setup you should use speakers that have a frequency response that covers the peak and nulls inversely. This will minimize the modification to the signal.

Man, there are so many other features about amplifiers that would alter one's selection. What class amp is it? How much power does it supply? Heat generated? Input voltage required? Impedance stability?

Yep, and given a specific type, minimum impedance, and output power(real, not manufacturer BS), an amplifier should not modify the signal by default.

And you're speaking theoretically once again. All parts of the audio system introduce noise. It is basically unavoidable. Unless you buy some really high end equipment (which goes against your own argument that an amp/preamp is an amp/preamp).

Nope, cheap equipment that meets you feature and power needs should not introduce any more noise then expensive equipment, especially in a car...

Finally, I would guess you're looking at technical specs. In life, specs aren't everything. You can really only measure so much.

Oh no, are you one of those people that believes that your $5000 krell amp sounds better then my $100 Behringer A500!
Modified by PoorManQ45 at 10:15 AM 3/11/2010

[AppleBonker]

First off, sorry Stace. Go ahead and skip this post.

Fine, I'll break it down better. I don't really want to get into a pissing match and derail this thread more than I'm about to, so this post and I'm out. I'm not looking for you to answer these questions, just pointing out some potential flaws in your thinking. I'll agree that your arguments are sound in theory, but in real-world applications become less valid.

I know what an oscilloscope is. My question was in reference to your comment about the noise floor. Did you measure the units personally? Were they all tested the same way? With the same scope? What is an acceptable noise floor? To you or industry standards? Am I allowed to be more picky?

Again, comparing head units with simplicity. 14.4 volts? Does your car maintain that? What happens when the car dips to 14.0, 13.5? How does the amp hold up when the speaker is not at nominal impedance? You don't seriously believe that your Pyle will perform the same as an Alpine/Kenwood in all of these cases. Which one is better? I don't know, and I don't personally have the time or money to do the rigorous testing.

Big point here: Do you think before you post? Your own arguments are contradicting. It would appear that you are basing your comments off the specs provided by the manufacturer in most cases. But then you go and claim that when they supply a spec of 50x4 it's BS? Could the other specs be BS too? Did the manufacturer possibly design a perfect setup to obtain those numbers with legitimate measuring tools? Would a manufacturer actually do this (play slightly dirty) to try to get ahead (I thought you were cynical enough)?

Again, in theory it'd be nice to not have to EQ anything. If you're looking to save with a budget head unit, what are the odds you can afford speakers with a flat freq response? If you can't afford perfect speakers, is it better to push a flat/pure signal to them, or try to compensate? Are you suggesting using speakers designed specifically to counteract my listening environment? I can go and get those specially designed for me, but they'd probably cost more than the car itself. Again, the EQ certainly is a band-aid. But until I can afford a perfect listening environment and speakers with perfect response, I'm going to use it to make the best of what I have.

What preamps/amplifiers should not and do not alter are completely different things. If you honestly think the Behringer A500 has a similar frequency response curve to far more expensive amps you're fooling yourself. Sure, the law of diminishing returns would apply here. I would agree that once you hit a certain point, it probably doesn't make much difference to go any higher. But bargain basement amps are crap compared to the mid-level stuff.

For the record, I focused my funds for my car on the speakers and the environment. These are the two parts of the install that should have the biggest impact in overall performance. The head unit/amps were purchased mostly for their features (which happen to include an excellent EQ which allows me to tune the setup to my application). Would a Sinfoni/McIntosh amp sound better than my Alpines? I don't know, but I wish I had the money to test it.

Finally, most of those cheaper head units do not have a user interface that is as simple as some of the "premium" brands. This goes a long way in terms of manipulating your audio while driving (which is hazardous enough as it is). In the end, you do get what you pay for. Some might be happy with the cheapest available, most will not...

[PoorManQ45]

I know what an oscilloscope is. My question was in reference to your comment about the noise floor. Did you measure the units personally? Were they all tested the same way? With the same scope? What is an acceptable noise floor? To you or industry standards? Am I allowed to be more picky?

If you have variations from scope to scope you have an issue...

As to the change in noise, it depends on the harmonic at which it occurs. 1st and 3rd being the most prominent.

Testing was done by some of the guys over at AVS, the12volt, and audiophile

Again, comparing head units with simplicity. 14.4 volts? Does your car maintain that? What happens when the car dips to 14.0, 13.5?

14.4 was used as an ideal.

How does the amp hold up when the speaker is not at nominal impedance?

As a speaker is an electro-magnetic device impedance changes with frequency. I'm not sure what you're getting at with that.

Big point here: Do you think before you post? Your own arguments are contradicting. It would appear that you are basing your comments off the specs provided by the manufacturer in most cases. But then you go and claim that when they supply a spec of 50x4 it's BS? Could the other specs be BS too? Did the manufacturer possibly design a perfect setup to obtain those numbers with legitimate measuring tools? Would a manufacturer actually do this (play slightly dirty) to try to get ahead (I thought you were cynical enough)?

Did you not notice that I stated that the HU puts out ~10~14w, CONTRARY to what the manufacturer says.

If you honestly think the Behringer A500 has a similar frequency response curve to far more expensive amps you're fooling yourself.

You're going to get in trouble if you keep going on that. The Behringer A500 was compared to a Krell amp in a double blind test. The claimed "audiophiles" could not accurately identify which amp was being used.

For the record, I focused my funds for my car on the speakers and the environment. These are the two parts of the install that should have the biggest impact in overall performance. The head unit/amps were purchased mostly for their features (which happen to include an excellent EQ which allows me to tune the setup to my application).

That's how it should be. Take care of the environment before even worrying about electronics.

Finally, most of those cheaper head units do not have a user interface that is as simple as some of the "premium" brands. This goes a long way in terms of manipulating your audio while driving (which is hazardous enough as it is). In the end, you do get what you pay for. Some might be happy with the cheapest available, most will not...

Eh... I personally like Clarion units. They're a cheaper brand. It's all about personal preference.

I like Nakamichi for those OEM type installs too

[Bubba1]

lol....Toby rocks.

I guess I'm a simple person...I have a 100 dollar Garmin that I <3

+1 I have a little Garmin too, works great, easy to use, but I'm a function over style guy.

The main concerns I have about built in Nav systems is where they get installed (the interior location),and the inability to use it anywhere but in that particular car.

[Morph]

you're better off talking to broadfield. call him kunta kinte and tell him learned'd sent you, he'll hook you up.

Deff talk to broadfield he's got some Nico special pricing, i need to get with him soon and get a nav system in the 240 too.

[hannibal]

I have no clue what PMQ is talking about when it comes to audio, but I know he knows his stuff.

I plan to do an in car PC when I have vehicle worthy of such. MP3, CD, DVD, XM, and nav for about $1000 plus the cost of an amp and speakers. Would have to fiberglass a panel to mount a 7" screen, but still cheaper than a head unit with all those functions.

[PoorManQ45]

I have no clue what PMQ is talking about when it comes to audio, but I know he knows his stuff.

thank you

I plan to do an in car PC when I have vehicle worthy of such. MP3, CD, DVD, XM, and nav for about $1000 plus the cost of an amp and speakers. Would have to fiberglass a panel to mount a 7" screen, but still cheaper than a head unit with all those functions.

Agreed. I am very annoyed that there aren't many straight Preamps for a car. I mean, honestly, how many people use the amplifiers in a HU when setting up a full system. Not many!

With a carputer you have straight preamps. That is the way to go!

[Empty V]

I'm not sure what your options are for your car but here's what I've got and I couldn't be happier:

Pioneer AVIC-Z3 DVD/Nav Deck w/Bluetooth SetupPioneer GEX-P10XMT XM Tuner w/NavTrafficPioneer NDBC2 Backup CameraPioneer TSD-1602r Composite Speakers for the Rear DoorsJL Audio XR650-CSi Component Speakers for the FrontJL Audio 10w3v2 10" 600wRMS SubsMTX TE404 400w Thunder Elite Amp for the DoorsMTX 600XD 600w Thunder Amp for the 2 subsDynamat Xtreme Sound Damping Material doubled for the doors, body panels, tailgate, and hood. Scosche Accumat Sound Damping Material above the Headliner



And here's my old HU Pioneer AVIC-D3 which had all of the same features

[EW]

Actually that is incorrect.

I don't mean just the preamp output. I mean the GUI, buttons, build quality, how the thing ACTUALLY works not just what is written on the box, other interfaces available, etc. If you think that a Jensen, Power Acoustik, Dual, Boss, etc compare in actual operation then I think you're crazy. However, there is a market for junk so I'm sure they sell lots of it. I'll pass.

[PoorManQ45]

I don't mean just the preamp output. I mean the GUI, buttons, build quality, how the thing ACTUALLY works not just what is written on the box, other interfaces available, etc. If you think that a Jensen, Power Acoustik, Dual, Boss, etc compare in actual operation then I think you're crazy. However, there is a market for junk so I'm sure they sell lots of it. I'll pass.

Ehh... All the manufacturers have different interfaces, but I understand what you're saying.

I