Afghanistan Kill Team: Your thoughts?

[IBCoupe]

http://www.onpointradio.org/2010/09/murder-afghanistan

Some stories out of Afghanistan break your heart and make you wonder about the war. Yesterday, NPR reporter Tom Bowman brought us the story of ex-Marine Chris Winfield, whose son Adam sent him a message from Kandahar this year that there was murder going on in his Army unit.

Murder of innocent civilians, it’s now charged. For sport. And he was afraid for his own life if he resisted — if he told. The father told the Army. The Army did nothing.

Now his own son is charged with murder. Today, the father is with us, with a terrible story out of Afghanistan.

- On January 15, 2010, Gul Mudin was killed “by means of throwing a fragmentary grenade at him and shooting him with a rifle,” an action carried out by Spc. Jeremy Morlock and Pfc. Andrew Holmes under the direction of Gibbs. Morlock allegedly told Holmes, 19 and on his first tour of duty, that the killing was carried out for fun.
- On February 22, Gibbs and Spc. Michael S. Wagnon allegedly shot the second victim, Marach Agha, and placed a Kalashnikov next to the body to justify the killing.
- On May 2, Mullah Adadhdad was killed after being shot and attacked with a grenade. Spc. Adam C. Winfield and Gibbs were allegedly the perpetrators.

Christopher Winfield, the father of platoon member Spec. Adam C. Winfield, attempted to alert the Army of the kill team's existence after his son explained the situation from Afghanistan via a Facebook chat after the first killing.[10] In response to the news from his son, Winfield called the Army inspector general's 24-hour hotline, the office of Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.), and a sergeant at Joint Base Lewis-McChord who told him to call the Army's criminal investigations division. He then contacted the Fort Lewis command center and spoke to a sergeant on duty who agreed that Spec. Winfield was in potential danger but he had to report the crime to his superiors before the Army could take action.[14]

[AZhitman]

I got nothing.

[heliochrome85]

its sad
but its not surprising
the guys there are under extreme circumstances. the sheer numbers alone allow for such a thing to be a reasonable occurance. we shouldnt be shocked, but we should be trying our best to prevent further events like this from taking place.

ive said it before
afghanistan is unwinnable.

[mattblancarte]

This behavior has been going on both in Iraq and Afghanistan for more than half a decade. Glad to see that "drop weapons" aren't fooling investigators in some cases, at least.

afghanistan is unwinnable.

Agreed. What is there to win in this conflict?

[Watermelonwarrior]

ive said it before
afghanistan is unwinnable.

A little off topic but while speaking on Afghanistan.How the hell has Opium production raise 49% this year. Afghanistan continues to account for 90 percent of the world’s illicit opium and heroin production, according to the UN drugs monitoring body.

[heliochrome85]

opium has a long history in the region, ala tobacco.

also, the returns on investment are huge, not just from crop prices.

if you had three goats, now you could have 4.

[IBCoupe]

The most plausible culprit of the increase in opium production to me seems to be that whatever semblance of centralized government that could possibly keep hold the reigns on opium production is gone. I don't anticipate that we'll see a reduction of drug production until we see an incentive system by increasing the profits to be had by growing food, for example, or by increasing the chance that they'll be punished for growing opium. I fwe go witht he latter option, that will involve setting up an effective, uncorrupted police force.

[heliochrome85]

I fwe go witht he latter option, that will involve setting up an effective, uncorrupted police force.

and we would need the opium in afghanistan to get high enough to think that we could actually build such a force.

[IBCoupe]

I don't buy that. My war math says that it's not a dead end. Where was Iraq in 2007, four years after we got there? We have "focused" on Afghanistan for a grand total of maybe four years; not consecutively. So we might even ask, where was Iraq in 2005?

Yes, they're very different countries, with very different needs, but it took us seven years to get Iraq to a point where we could reasonably withdraw the majority of our troops. I may be in the very small majority of Americans who remains unopposed to Afghanistan. In my view, we haven't "been there" long at all.

[heliochrome85]

relative to other occupying forces, we barely have been there yeah. the issue is though that American patience for the war has wore thin. even if we had a 5 year plan, we wouldnt be able to execute it. the people there are about as backwards as backwards gets. no amount of poptarts will change their mind, although im fairly willing to ship over two nuggets of Americana Paris HIlton, and Lindsay Lohan, and see if that changes things.

[heliochrome85]

but only coked out Lindsay Lohan. not cute as hell in Mean Girls Lindsay Lohan, cause that one, im keepin for my self.

[AZhitman]

UR IN OUR THEATURZ

FAPPIN TO R BLONZ

[IBCoupe]

As I've demonstrated before, I'm not above ignoring "American patience."

[AZhitman]

Even for a lot of poptarts?

[stebo0728]

Is it even an objective of our forces to do ANYTHING about the opium thing? I mean maybe the opium pushers wave and smile at our troops, exchange a joke about jews, and be on their way? Its not America there, with a DEA or anything. Just trying to help make sense of the increase you are stating.

[AZhitman]

Is it even an objective of our forces to do ANYTHING about the opium thing? I mean maybe the opium pushers wave and smile at our troops, exchange a joke about jews, and be on their way? Its not America there, with a DEA or anything. Just trying to help make sense of the increase you are stating.

Good point.

Last I read, khat was illegal here (but not there) too. Are we enforcing our drug policy in other countries?

edit: Anyone here ever tried it? I want to.

[stebo0728]

Well maybe if we get off this lifestyle enforcement high-horse here in this country and legalize (or a better word would be decriminalize) the stuff, maybe you can try it.

Your best kosher route now is to eat about 8 cases of poppee seed muffins on a binge. Care to give that go?

[AZhitman]

Nope. I'll pass.

Different class of drug. Khat is a CNS stimulant.

[stebo0728]

Nope. I'll pass.

Different class of drug. Khat is a CNS stimulant.

LAWLS - when you said Khat I assumed you typed and meant That, and thus back to opium. My Bad!!

[heliochrome85]

Even for a lot of poptarts?

so i just moved here to Brooklyn. I would like to turn your attention to the latest NYC establishment, straight from the pages of my super sekret diary...

http://ny.eater.com/archives/2010/08/po ... square.php

yeah, this is pop tart sushi



somewhere, an angel just got its wings.

and a fat a** kansan, just broke their medicaid supplied wheelchair...

[IBCoupe]

Even for a lot of poptarts?

What would you do for a klondike bar? Would you... kill a man?

[stebo0728]

Well if its the one with crispies on the chocolate shell, then hell ya id kill a man!

[BusyBadger]

Last I read, khat was illegal here (but not there) too. Are we enforcing our drug policy in other countries?

edit: Anyone here ever tried it? I want to.

I've advocated decimating the poppy fields for years. If were up to me I'd say we adapt the MQ-9 to carry payloads of herbicide & napalm. Opium production is actually larger with the US presence than it was during the Russian Occupation or Taliban Control periods. Ah, the tolerance of the United States. We don't want it, and most governments in the region are opposed to it as well, but poppy cultivation is economically viable to the local farmers for a variety of reason, not the least of which is money.

Even though the Karzai government made opium poppy cultivation and trafficking illegal in 2002, many farmers, driven by poverty, continue to cultivate opium poppy to provide for their families. Indeed, poverty is the primary reason given by Afghan farmers for choosing to cultivate opium poppy." With a farm gate price of approximately $125 per kilogram for dry opium, an Afghan farmer can make 17 times more profit growing opium poppy ($4,622 per hectare), than by growing wheat ($266 per hectare). Opium poppy is also drought resistant, easy to transport and store, and, unlike many crops, requires no refrigeration and does not spoil. With Afghanistan's limited irrigation, transportation and other agricultural infrastructure, growing alternative crops is not only less profitable, but more difficult.

That's from a paper at the Army War College, here's a link it in its entirety: http://www.strategicstudiesinstitute.ar ... pub804.pdf

Want more good news? Afghanistan is also the world's largest producer of hashish.

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

Yeah once the taliban (An extremely anti-drug group) pulled out, poppy harvesting and opium production sky-rocketed. Plus with all the chaos from the war, it's easier for them to move it about. You would think that in order to prevent such a huge potential funding of terrorism, we'd be seeking that s*** out.
Isn't Khat a cousin of cocaine?
You wanna snort some yay Greg don't yah.

[Cold_Zero]

I was watching CBS 60 Minutes last night and I saw them too. I saw the big Torii on their forward base, knew exactly who they were and told my five year old daughter that these guys were high speed/low drag.
Now, I know it may seem like they are Kill Teams or Death Squads, that is no way to talk about the 187 Parachute Infantry Regiment. I have friends who were in the Regiment and I know that they are battle hardened in Iraq and Afghanistan, and they prefer to be called Rakkasans. Only the Taliban should refer to them as kill teams or death squads.

Sorry Greg, not everyone can be a Rakkasan. I guess the rest have join the 82nd. *grin*

[AZhitman]

Isn't Khat a cousin of cocaine?
You wanna snort some yay Greg don't yah.

If you mean are their parents siblings, then no.

You don't snort khat. However, it is a stimulant, and yeah, I'd try it.

[Cold_Zero]

Don't you chew it? If I remember correctly from the book Black Hawk Down.