AEM EMS KA24DE(N/A Application)

[Hard_Limitz]

I am currently installing the AEM EMS for the KA24DE on my S13 Coupe. My list of modifications include:CP Cold Air IntakeDC Sports HeaderRSR ExMag ExhaustMallory Ignition CapacitorsMSD Blaster SS Coil370cc injectorsWalbro 255LPH Fuel Pump300ZX Fuel FilterGude High Compression Head Package-11-1Aluminum DriveshaftFidanza Aluminum FlywheelKAAZ LSDWith these modifications I am hoping to get around 180whp. I am in southern california and am wondering where I should get the AEM EMS tuned? Some people have mentioned R&D Dyno and XS Engineering. I have heard mixed reviews of both places. What are some of your thoughts? Thanks!

[NateDogg]

Well I can't suggest which place to tune but I must say I'm impressed with that list of parts and I'm looking forward to the results!!

BTW what does the Gude 'head package' comprise?

[Hard_Limitz]

The Gude High Compression Head Package comes with an 11-1 compression ratio, port & polished cylinder head, throttle body and intake manifold, cams and new valves. Some people have talked a lot of **** about Gude, but I can say that under 3,000rpm there is significant loss, but above 5,000rpm it is killer! The cams are very streetable. It idles a little rougher compared to stock, but nothing compared to wild race cams bouncing from 1,000-3,000rpm at idle. Gude says that their Head Package produces 45hp. AEM also makes huge claims about their EMS. We shall soon see if Gude or AEM are the real deal.

[Ubernoober]

I think you are taking a very realistic approach.That car is going to be tons of fun when you get it complete.

[NateDogg]

Thats killer.

Since you are N/A I would venture to say that you want to tune for about 13:1 AFR's with between 23-26 degrees total timing. Any decent shop will be able to make power with that as a baseline. Make sure you hit up an AEM-authorized tuner though because then you can hopefully get the most out of that system, not to mention get it to pass smog
Modified by NateDogg at 6:30 PM 4/24/2005

[skatanic28]

i think you should able to attain your goals with a good tune. what are you gonna be spinning the motor to?

btw.....once you get the car running on the ems, check out your injector pulse widths with key on car off. mine were running at about 7000uS, where it seemed to be referencing off the crank inject table.

anyways...good luck!

[SSS]

I would have to suggest some 48mm ITB's to complement the head, considering the AEM is a map based system, ITB's are easier to setup.

[Hard_Limitz]

I actually did not add dual valve springs and titanium retainers. So far I have been only taking her to 7,000rpm. With the tuning I doubt I will take her above 7,500rpm. With the cams it actually feels like it wants to go to passed 7,000rpm. I will let you know about the injector pulse width.

[skatanic28]

I would have to suggest some 48mm ITB's to complement the head, considering the AEM is a map based system, ITB's are easier to setup.

its pretty flexible with airflow metering. you can use maps, mafs, or even throttle position for tuning. it seems like a lot of the ITB setups use throttle position. how do you run a map when there is no common collector?

[PandaS14]

^^^^^^

you take one vacuum line from each port and "T" them into a common line that you run to the map sensor. Most ITB setups do use map sensors, only certain (rare) circumstances warrant tuning off of engine speed and tps alone.

[skatanic28]

^^^^^^

you take one vacuum line from each port and "T" them into a common line that you run to the map sensor. Most ITB setups do use map sensors, only certain (rare) circumstances warrant tuning off of engine speed and tps alone.

thanks for the info, makes more sense now. i was just saying a lot of the aem cars with itb's seem to be using the throttle, but i havent really look into it much.

btw...you are the guy running the modified stock mani and itb's w/ megasquirt right? whens it gonna see a dyno

[PandaS14]

It'll be done soon. within 3 weeks to a month.

Good luck on the project Hard Limitz!

[Hard_Limitz]

Had the car tuned at R&D Dyno this morning. It took 3 hours for a total of $375.00. Darren is hella cool and a great tuner. Unlike many auto shops that house ***holes, Darren is genuinely a nice guy with a lot of experience. Based upon my numbers he said I am probably not running an 11 to 1 compression ratio. He doubts that shaving the head would raise the compression ratio that much. So Gude has some explaining to do. He said you need to weld the head to really raise compression that high. He also said that my valves were the loudest that he has ever heard for a KA24DE:eek: . This is not good. Since I got the head from Gude there have been 4 seperate valve jobs resizing the shims with no results . I think I probably just need to bite the big one and get dual valve springs, titanium retainers and **** maybe new valves. Well here it goes what you have been wanting to hear, the numbers. I failed to reach my 180whp goal. 178.4whp at around 6K and 166.2 torque at about 5,300rpm. Comparing the graphs to the stock dyno chart from AEM on their S14 I can say that I was totally wrong about the exhaust lag. 3" RSR ExMag works pretty well. Oh I found out why my RSR is so damn loud. Apparently some RSR ExMags come with a resonator. Mine which was purchased earlier this year has no resonator! So either Gude did an OK job on raising the compression ratio and I just need to redo the valvetrain, or the valvetrain is fine and the compression ratio is just not raised as high as I thought. And yes the shims were sized correctly, 4 seperate times after break in, when put in so I believe the error is on their end. I trust Darren on the valve noise because many people have mentioned the valve noise as well. It is pretty damn loud. I will post the chart later when I get access to a scanner. Oh another reason Darren said that the compression was not raised much was because the timing was advanced to over 30 degrees without a hint of knock on 91 pump gas. I was originally considering the Fisher Damper but looking at the harmonics my KA24DE seems to be fine. Oh and I was using the Innovative Motorsports LM-1 Wideband o2 sensor kit. Do yourself a favor and get the AEM UEGO one because it will be easier to log everything on one screen. Oh and there seems to be many many people who are having problems with connecting to the EMS with their own computers. B&E Customs(LS Automotive) could not connect to it to upload the base maps. Running off of the stock base map that came with the EMS was absolute crap! Without tuning it ran worse than my piece of **** beat up pickup truck. I am lucky I made it to Gardena from Baldwin Park. Even Darren looked at me with shock as he asked me how I made it down there ! So all in all I am happy but can say that you should not expect huge gains with the AEM EMS for N/A. It was worth it for me though because I like how smooth it got the powerband. Its times like these that I know why I bought my motorcycle. It is a CHEAP & STREETLEGAL way to kill ferarris and porsches. I will post the dyno later. Peace .

[dark-sky]

I really like how much power the engine is making, around 210 crank hp. nice, and still have the stock manifold, athought ported. thanks for sharing.

A few questions how smooth is it. hows the throttle response. how much power did you gain. and last what did you adjust.
Modified by dark-sky at 3:08 PM 4/30/2005

[Hard_Limitz]

The powerband is really smooth. The response is pretty good thanks to the aluminum driveshaft, flywheel and electric fans. I am sorry I can't show you the dyno chart yet to answer more of your questions. I actually scanned it at my friend's shop tonight and he e-mailed it to me, but it was not sent to my box. I also just realized that I left it in his scanner. DOH! Anyhow I will get it up soon. I can tell you that the powerband has maybe a 40-45whp gain at 7K. At 7K the car made just over 150whp while the stock S13 with AEM EMS put about 105whp. AEM peaked at 140.8whp at about 5,300rpm with their EMS on a stock S13. Like I said peak power was 178.4whp at 6Krpm with 28 degrees advanced timing. Everything up to 4K was the same as stock S13 with the AEM EMS. However I did not make the same amount of low rpm torque that AEM made on that Stock S14. I don't know how they made that much low end torque at 1,500rpm . I am also going to do a compression test to see just how much compression I am running. About the valves. **** I don't know??? I think it may be the ram on the valves. Just have to open it up and find out the bad news. I have a feeling there is more power to be found in the valvetrain. We shall see.

[dark-sky]

thank you, thank you, sounds nice. to keep all the power of a stock engine I think is pretty sweet. than have it come alive at higher rpm. also thats a lot of power at 7k rpm. well now I'll just wait for the chart. thanks though. glad to see you you share it.

oh and so what did you adjust with the aem computer to make the car more powerful.

[rey_boricua]

nice numbers

[onosqv]

Where's R&D Dyno located? Contact #/place please. .

[tryiian]

hey man how much has your gude and other head work/internal work costed you?

[Hard_Limitz]

Hey sorry for taking so damn long to get this dyno up. I actually picked it up from my friend's shop a while ago, but did not have any software to resize the damn image. It was way too large originally. I am still waiting to open up the head and check the valves. The Griffin Radiator finally came in and I shall install it soon. So whomever else ordered a Griffin Radiator within the last month, they are finally ready. I don't know why they don't keep more inventory on hand. The electric fans really freed up a lot of space in the engine bay. Right now the system is being installed along with a 150 amp alternator. I spent about $1450 on the Gude Head. As far as the tuning and what was changed. I could not tell you that because I did not tune it and do not remember the fuel tables. All I can say was that the timing was advanced 35 degrees, but the most power was made at 28 degrees. If you want you can call Darren at:R&D Dyno Service115 E Gardena BlvdGardena, CA 90248-2811Phone & FAXTel: (310) 516-1003Fax: (310) 516-7206

[Hard_Limitz]

Here is a dyno chart from AEM on a stock S13 with their EMS. Notice how much the Cams changed the powerband. The KA24DE feels a lot better at higher rpms now.

[:: orion ::]

Congrats...you own one of the higher HP N/A KA's out there...and looks like you did it right.

Good job.

- Brian

[tryiian]

great info, should be a legendary post. Can iAsk what the mileage and daily driving is like with it fully tuned? and can you turn the car off and have the EMS switch to a low-power better mileage setting?

[PandaS14]

^^^^^

That's all done in the tuning. You can have a 500hp turbo ka that still gets 25mpg on the highway. Your engine is at different parts of your fuel map when cruising versus under heavy load. You tune the heavy load part to make optimum power 12:1-13.5:1 (depending on type of engine) and the cruise part of the map to 16:1-17:1. Just one of the many awesome things about standalones.

[dark-sky]

nice, thank you

I really like what the EMS can do,

hey was all you did with it is tune the fuel ratio.

[seang]

I'm bumping this thread solely because of the impressive numbers, and my late night tenacious insomnia.

[Shift_Kouki]

Nice numbers. He should really do something with the intake manifold and get those valve springs / retainers.

Probably about as high as is reasonable for a pump gas setup. Bet you could bump compression a bit more on E85 lol.