Admittedly an extreme situation described in this news item ...

[szh]

... but it is worth noting that letting your vehicle deteriote to the point of unsafe presence on the roads is going to have serious implications:

In a court filing, police said the brakes on Walker's van had deteriorated so badly it was unsafe to drive. Walker has said he tried to avoid hitting Sanz but was unable to stop.

Here is the link to the full story: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26369580. This driver is in serious legal trouble ... could get two murder charges (do not know what severity) leveled against him.

The bottom line is that we need to keep cars and tires and brakes, etc., in good working condition. Brian (maxnix) has talked about this for years and been given a hard time about it - unfairly.

Separately, Dennis (Q45tech) has warned us that legislation is in the works to ensure that modifications are likely to require that installer be darn careful "to meet OEM" standards. The implications on "VIP-style" modifications are unknown at this time.

My point is that tires and wheels are a good example of this. There is some legislation pending where tire and wheel sellers are going to need to warrant that their after-market replacements are as good as the OEM ... from the perspective of load and speed ratings, strength, etc.

After-market wheel makers, for example, are simply not going to have the resources to thoroughly test their products with all possible combinations of vehicles. OEM manufacturers do.

Folks, I am not trying to start an argument or make a political statement here - I am just trying to get people to think about their car modifications very, very carefully. There are implications for all of us.

So, please keep your response posts on point - no flames about the legal system or government regulations, etc. Thanks!

Z

[CakeDaddy]

Sad to hear that, but his problem wasn't brakes, bad tire or after market rims. Mr Walkers problem was............ the following:

"The van, driven by a 72-year-old man with what authorities say is a long history of driving offenses"

"Walker has a history of driving offenses and arrests dating to the 1980s; police have said he had his license suspended 20 times."

, but regardless of what we think there was a young life lost.

[maxnix]

Bad operator or bad owner maintenance or both, the court doesn't care when it comes to liability, or in this case, criminal guilt.

[szh]

Sad to hear that, but his problem wasn't brakes, bad tire or after market rims. Mr Walkers problem was............ the following:

"The van, driven by a 72-year-old man with what authorities say is a long history of driving offenses"

"Walker has a history of driving offenses and arrests dating to the 1980s; police have said he had his license suspended 20 times."

, but regardless of what we think there was a young life lost.

I think if you look at the specific quote, you will see the words: "In a court filing, police said the brakes on Walker's van had deteriorated so badly it was unsafe to drive." and also "was unable to stop".

Now, like I said, this is an extreme situation, but it underscores the need to maintain your car properly. In other situations, it could be bald tires instead of bad brakes - this is far more common than I would like to see!

And, I also totally agree that this story had nothing to do with bad tires or bad rims. What I wanted to point out is that these are other issues that have been raised recently, and there is legislation in the works about them.

Z

[szh]

Here is an example of interesting legislation (being fought, yes, but still ...):

http://www.sema.org/main/semaorghome.aspx?id=54983

Connecticut Tire Efficiency: SEMA is working with the Tire Industry Association to oppose Connecticut legislation that would require, as California did two years ago, the development of a statewide program to mandate that replacement tires for passenger cars and light trucks be as energy efficient as tires sold as original equipment. While the bill contains a SEMA-drafted exemption for some hobbyist tires, including limited-production and off-road tires, SEMA and TIA are recommending that the bill be rejected since the replacement-tire efficiency program conflicts with federal law by regulating fuel economy, imposes substantial redesign costs on tire manufacturers, competes with Federal consumer information requirements and essentially sets a 50-state standard. Opponents are concerned that the bill would dissuade consumers from buying tires that may have improved performance, handling or appearance features based solely on a rolling-resistance rating and could drive consumers to purchase only original-equipment manufacturer (OEM) recommended tires because the program exempts OEM-selected tires.

The California version of the above:http://www.energy.ca.gov/trans....htmlh ... ns...4.PDF

Other interesting reads:http://www-nrd.nhtsa.dot.gov/p...W.pdfh ... ta...=2002

Lots of stuff on mandatory TPMS systems, as well as opposition to it:http://www.tireindustry.org/go...s.asp

Z

[CakeDaddy]

I think if you look at the specific quote, you will see the words: "In a court filing, police said the brakes on Walker's van had deteriorated so badly it was unsafe to drive." and also "was unable to stop".

I’m going to play the devils advocate here and ask a rhetorical question:

When do the police become experts in brake inspections?

Sure, the may have been bad, but I’d rather read a report from AAA stating the brakes were bad instead of a local police officer.

[szh]

I’m going to play the devils advocate here and ask:

When do the police become experts in brake inspections?

Sure, the may have been bad, but I’d rather read a report from AAA stating the brakes were bad instead of a local police officer.

Yeah, the police officer may not be the expert. But, rest assured, the lawyers handling the case for the killed people are going to find out what the situation is!

And that is the point. Responsibility for the liability is going to become part of the equation in such law-suits - and these will drive legislation. Yes, somebody may never encounter a problem - with driving on bald tires for example - but if that person gets into an accident, then the lack of proper tire maintenance will be a major factor in determining responsibility and part of the judgement.

The after-market industry is starting to take these liability issues seriously.

Z

[szh]

BTW, believe me, I am not advocating that we suddenly drop all aftermarket modifications, or tire replacements, or VIP style cars, etc., etc., etc. I am not saying that we have to only buy OEM, etc., etc., etc.

I am just saying that we need to think about these issues when we make any changes to our cars that may compromise safety and avoid creating situations where an accident could have serious legal implications.

Z

[Q45tech]

Vehicle manufacturers LOVE aftermarket parts as their lawyers can easily use the tires, brakes, springs, suspensions to sever them from lawsuits.The owner modified our safety systems, see you later and have a nice day.

[maxnix]

I’m going to play the devils advocate here and ask a rhetorical question:

When do the police become experts in brake inspections?

Maybe you should watch CSI? Most Police departments have their own garages if not a Forensics Department. Real easy to inspect and measure componenents and operation.

[TexasMadrone]

I think we all are saddened by the inexcusable death of the occupants for whatever reason. Offense history as also mentioned, might best show the underlying cause as opposed to age. As the article stated, the offenses go back to the '80's which would have placed his age at 43 to 52! Vehicle Maint. certainly could have contributed.

My posting deals with a trend we see by news and TV jounalists somehow pushing the older age issue of drivers. Unfortunately the general public is picking up on this jounalist brain washing, and now echoing this dribble. I believe statistics clearly show the 16 to 25 year olds far exceed any other age group for offenses. I don't think cell phones, headphones, too loud music, scoping out the "skirts", too many peolpe on board, and street racing would be credited to the older crowd. Brain dead could be, but that seems to be just about true across the board!

I would challenge most anyone on this site to think they could be more capable then:A.J. Foyt age 73Dan Gurney age 72Stirling Moss age 77Paul Newman age 83 (may be on death bed due to cancer)Roger Penske age 73and on and on and on.....

Now to speak for myself.Age 71Years driving 56Ticketable offenses-3 1 - 1982 in my Porsche 911SC doing 65 on the interstate in a 55 zone during the nationwide 55mph mandate. (I must admit that had he seen me earlier I was doing 95 testing out the new car!) One other was in the early 60's and the other in the 70's. Both were minor speed related.

Autos owned:'51 Ford with slight mods'56 Ford Sunliner Convert. with police intercepter engine'54 Austin-Healy'60 Austin-Healy'61 Porsche 356B super coupe'67 1600 BMW'68 2002 BMW'80 Triumph (V8 engine)'96 Infiniti I30'03 Infiniti M45Several family sedans along the way

I think you can see by the autos above that I've not been in the "slow" lane. How many know how to down shift a straight stick into 1st while running a 4 wheel drift in upper gears, or steer through the drift with the gas pedal?

The point of this long post is to help bring aware that some of the so called "over the hill" types might well be more capable then some of the other posters. You just can't lump inability, stupidness, brain deadness, or other faults to any age group. We can get into reaction time with age, etc. etc., but some of these things might be offset by judgement though I still think my personal reaction time is as good as most anyone. Would you rather trust your families lives flying with a fresh 22 year old pilot or one thats 60 and been flying for 35 years?

I hope this post is received to enlighten, not to chastise anyone. It was done in good spirit and to defend us older site members, some of which can hold our own with most anyone on many subjects.

[SteveTheTech]

I have to agree, although I am not at all anti making your car unique. The manufactures test and design the cars to operate safely and all parts are tested independently to meet federal regulations. I have noticed people who put aftermarket pads and rotors on the vehicles and there is a very noticeable difference in stopping distance.Large diameter wheels will effect turning radius, bump steer and handling. Aftermarket and discount tires and brakes are safety items that can easily cause an accident if something goes wrong,you only get one chance to get it right. I would never trust things like that with my family's' safety.

I’m going to play the devils advocate here and ask a rhetorical question:

When do the police become experts in brake inspections?

Sure, the may have been bad, but I’d rather read a report from AAA stating the brakes were bad instead of a local police officer.

I know its rhetorical but I had to throw my .02 cents in.Actually just about every state policy agency has their own accident investigation department, which employs engineers and master technicians who are all trained in what to look for in this type of tragedy.

[CakeDaddy]

OK... all valid points and in no way am I calling out the older generation as being bad drivers. I agree that 16 to 24 year olds can be some of the worst drivers. Geico, AAA, All State, etc... can back this up and this is why you insurance rates drop at the age of 25.

Last summer at a little league football game I witnessed a lifted p/u trucks tow hitch hit a girl in the neck! Yes, the neck. The truck was so high up and he didn’t and couldn't see her standing there as he backed out, so some standards need to be adjusted with some of these HiRise vehicles in my opinion. A VIP car would not have had this issue

The term "Off-Road Use Only" is a joke and is only there for kicks and giggles.

[SteveTheTech]

That's a terrible story, I hope she was ok. Most states have laws limiting the maximum height of a vehicle but it's still pretty high. It seems that were are pretty much screwed every time we hit the road, the old people are going to hit the gas instead of the brake and get us the young people are oblivious and inexperienced, males 18-35 are the most likely to drive drunk, not a very good outlook.It sucks when stereotypes change public policy because everyone has there bad driving days, it's more about S**t luck. I guess we just need to keep our insurance up to date and enjoy the ride