Adios, Obamacare

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AZhitman
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http://nypost.com/2014/02/05/congressio ... obamacare/

I don't see this thing surviving the 2016 election.


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telcoman
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Please stop posting false information

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/05/opinion/c ... index.html


“There's a big difference between a reduction in the supply of labor and a reduction in the demand for labor. It's time we all learned the difference.”

Editor's note: Aaron E. Carroll is a professor of pediatrics at the Indiana University School of Medicine and the director of its Center for Health Policy and Professionalism Research. He has supported a single-payer health system during the reform debate. He blogs about health policy at The Incidental Economist and tweets at @aaronecarroll.


“Flash forward to February 4, 2014. The CBO updated its Budget and Economic Outlook for 2014 through 2024. Once again, the CBO reported that there would be a reduction in the labor force because workers will choose to work less because of the benefits they receive. In fact, the CBO thinks that these choices will result in a reduction in the labor force of about 2 million fewer full time positions in 2017. This time the key passage is on page 117-8:”

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fac ... d-workers/


Telcoman

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"The act creates a disincentive for people to work." - Douglas Elmendorf, CBO Director

But the White House said the possible reduction would be due to voluntary steps by workers rather than businesses cutting jobs -- people having the freedom to retire early or spend more time as stay-at-home parents because they no longer had to depend only on their employers for health insurance... Americans would no longer be trapped in a job just to provide coverage for their families, and would have the opportunity to pursue their dreams.
:bs: Where are the facts and figures? This is hypothetical speculation and wishful thinking. If you have to work more than part time to afford insurance, you're not going to cut your time, because you still have to pay for your ObamaCare insurance.

ObamaCare Will Raise Average Insurance Claims By 32% For Individual Coverage The Next Four Years http://www.forbes.com/sites/robertlenzn ... on-people/

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telcoman wrote:Please stop posting false information
Boo hoo hoo.

I should have known that'd bring Howie back, swinging across the screen like Tarzan on the Presidential Scrotum.

Your beef is with the NY Post. Whine at them for picking on your Doofus In Chief.

If you had half a clue, or any understanding of Economics, you'd see that your posts don't refute the original post - They simply serve to support it.

Think about that for a while... let me know when you figure out the aggravating factor.

p.s. Howdy, Howie. ;)

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telcoman
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More news from The New York Post

http://nypost.com/2014/02/07/bridgegate ... e-scandal/

Hmm. Is that true? Is the NYP right for once?

Is our governor lying? Will he end up being impeached?
People in NJ are paying more attention to our governor than what our president is doing.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/state/F ... ement.html

Telcoman

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telcoman wrote:More news from The New York Post

http://nypost.com/2014/02/07/bridgegate ... e-scandal/

Hmm. Is that true? Is the NYP right for once?

Is our governor lying? Will he end up being impeached?
People in NJ are paying more attention to our governor than what our president is doing.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/state/F ... ement.html

Telcoman
:offtopic:

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CFO Survey: Affordable Care Act Could Curtail Hiring
https://www.fuqua.duke.edu/news_events/ ... ey2013-q4/

DURHAM, N.C. -- A significant percentage of U.S. chief financial officers indicate that because of the Affordable Care Act (ACA), they may reduce employment growth at their firms and shift toward part-time workers.

EMPLOYMENT EFFECTS OF THE AFFORDABLE CARE ACT

Nearly half of U.S. companies are reluctant to hire full-time employees because of the ACA. One in five firms indicates they are likely to hire fewer employees, and another one in 10 may lay off current employees in response to the law.

Other firms will shift toward part-time workers. More than 40 percent of CFOs say their companies will consider switching some jobs to less than 30 hours per week or targeting part-time workers for future employment.
Duke University Expert: At least 129 million will ‘not be able to keep’ health care plan if Obamacare fully implemented
http://dailycaller.com/2013/11/04/exper ... plemented/

If Obamacare is fully implemented, 68 percent of Americans with private health insurance will not be able to keep their plan, according to health care economist Christopher Conover.

Conover is a research scholar in the Center for Health Policy & Inequalities Research at Duke University and an adjunct scholar at the American Enterprise Institute. In an interview with The Daily Caller, he laid out what he estimates the consequences of Obamacare’s implementation will ultimately be.

“Bottom line: of the 189 million Americans with private health insurance coverage, I estimate that if Obamacare is fully implemented, at least 129 million (68 percent) will not be able to keep their previous health care plan either because they already have lost or will lose that coverage by the end of 2014,” he said in an email. ”But of these, ‘only’ the 18 to 50 million will literally lose coverage, i.e., have their plans entirely taken away. This includes 9.2-15.4 million in the non-group market and 9-35 million in the employer-based market. The rest will retain their old plans but have to pay higher rates for Obamacare-mandated bells and whistles.”

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Howie, that doesn't surprise me about New Jerseyans... Not the sharpest demographic on the map, if you catch my drift. Too busy beating off over the possibility of catching a GOP governor in a lie to pay attention to the bigger picture.

The fact remains the ACA is an unsustainable fraud - you can argue until your Viagra starts working, I'll still be right.

Democrats are bailing off the BROBAMA bandwagon like rats from a sinking chunkof free gubmint cheese.

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The ACA is here to stay. How many taxpayer dollars did the house waste voting to repeal over 40 times
It's the law so get used to it.
We are never going back to the way things were prior to its passage.
We heard the same BS from the right when SS, medicare, and unemployment insurance was enacted. Not a peep when unpaid for Medicare part D was enacted by Bush.
The right is losing support even in red districts and has no one that will beat Hillary.

Christie is done!

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Rogue One wrote:
telcoman wrote:More news from The New York Post

http://nypost.com/2014/02/07/bridgegate ... e-scandal/

Hmm. Is that true? Is the NYP right for once?

Is our governor lying? Will he end up being impeached?
People in NJ are paying more attention to our governor than what our president is doing.

http://www.northjersey.com/news/state/F ... ement.html

Telcoman
:offtopic:
If Greg can use the New York Post to make a point then I can use this

http://www.nextnewdeal.net/rediscoverin ... rking-poor

Millions were only staying in jobs that they hate only to receive health benefits.
Now that healthcare is available for all many may choose to retire or do something else.
There were also many health plans sold that offered few benefits and made it next to impossible to collect.
They can no longer be sold. Some are complaining they cannot keep their worthless policies but better policies will cost more.

Whatever problems still exist with the ACA, Hillary will fix them beginning in January 2017

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telcoman wrote:The ACA is here to stay. How many taxpayer dollars did the house waste voting to repeal over 40 times
It's the law so get used to it.
We are never going back to the way things were prior to its passage.
We heard the same BS from the right when SS, medicare, and unemployment insurance was enacted. Not a peep when unpaid for Medicare part D was enacted by Bush.
The right is losing support even in red districts and has no one that will beat Hillary.

Christie is done!

Telcoman
That's hysterical! :lolling:
"It's the law so get used to it." Just like Slavery, Jim Crow laws, Prohibition. ;)

Bless your heart! I had no idea you're a comic and a prognosticator. :crazy:
Last edited by Rogue One on Sun Feb 09, 2014 3:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fix quote

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It's a shame poor Howie is so blinded by his love... or is it lust... for dear Barry.

Note - every point was missed, every statistic ignored, and every opportunity to make an argument completely over his balding little melon.

Maybe someone else will pop in with something to refute the Congressional Budget Office.

Don't forget about marijuana laws... Here to stay, huh?
telcoman wrote: If Greg can use the New York Post to make a point then I can use this
Big difference. I'd have posted up the brief from the CBO, but you wouldn't have read it... just like you don't read anything critical of your dear POTUS.

"nextnewdeal.com"? :rotfl You might as well post up some fruitcake bulls*** from Mother Jones.

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telcoman wrote:The right is losing support even in red districts and has no one that will beat Hillary.

Christie is done!

Telcoman
Well let's see. Chris Christie has a bridge scandal. “She who must not be named” has the Benghazi attack, that's now being whitewashed to lessen it's impact. BTW, there were 4 deaths in the Benghazi attack, and no reported deaths because of the bridge incident.

In 1992 G. Bush Sr. was seen as out of touch because he had never seen a check-out scanner in a grocery store before. That cost him the election. Hillary is now seen as out of touch, having admitted she has not driven a car herself since 1996.

As for "The right losing support", well that's more wishful thinking. Here's some food for thought.
The House: In 35 of the 38 midterms conducted since the start of the Civil War, the president’s party has lost ground in the U.S. House, and never has a president’s party netted anywhere close to the 17 seats the Democrats would need to win the House this year. History alone argues that the Democrats’ attempt to take back the House is effectively without precedent.

Other metrics also suggest that the Democrats are a long shot. Averages of the House generic ballot—the poll question that measures whether voters support a Republican or a Democrat in their House district—show essentially a tie (RealClearPolitics) or Republicans up slightly (HuffPost Pollster). A model by Emory University’s Alan Abramowitz projects that Democrats will need an enormous generic-ballot polling lead—possibly as much as 13 percent—to win House control in 2014. With the current polling, Abramowitz’s model estimates a gain of roughly five to 10 seats for the Republicans.

Despite House retirements that have disproportionately gone the Democrats’ way and made some fairly safe GOP seats very competitive, a smallish Republican gain seems the likeliest outcome in the House, and in few if any conceivable scenarios could the Democrats score a 17-seat net gain. The GOP will have to try mightily to kick away their House majority. It takes some imagination to conjure up something more foolish than the October shutdown for harming Republican interests, but that’s what would be required, and then some.

The Senate: Democrats are quick to admit, at least privately, that 2014’s lineup is a terrible Senate map for them. These Senate seats were last on the ballot in 2008, when the winds were at the Democrats’ backs and Republicans were demoralized by President George W. Bush’s unpopularity and the economic crisis. Conditions are quite different now. President Obama’s average percentage of the two-party 2012 vote in these states was just 46.6 percent, worst among the three Senate classes. Democratic senators currently represent seven states that Mitt Romney won: Alaska, Arkansas, Louisiana, Montana, North Carolina, South Dakota and West Virginia. Meanwhile, the only Republican who represents an Obama state on the 2014 list is the virtually unbeatable Sen. Susan Collins of Maine.

In 2014 the Senate map unmistakably favors Republicans—although they have recent experience in throwing away their inherent advantages. The GOP almost automatically inherits the Democratic seats held by Sens. Tim Johnson and Jay Rockefeller in the red states of South Dakota and West Virginia, with a better-than-even chance for the Montana seat of Max Baucus (and his probable appointed Democratic successor, Lt. Gov. John Walsh). At the moment, the most competitive Senate general election races involving incumbents are in GOP-leaning states. Sens. Mark Begich (D-Alaska), Mark Pryor (D-Ark.), Mary Landrieu (D-La.) and Kay Hagan (D-N.C.) are all hard pressed as they seek to win another term.

Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/ ... z2ss0MhrbH
Not that anyone asked, but I would hardly qualify as a poster boy for the Republican/Religious Right. In fact one of my youthful indiscretions was registering as a Democrat. Now that I'm and adult, and have put such childish folly behind me, I am not affiliated with any party, and have been so for a few decades.

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Noel, meet Howie. Every once in a while, the staff at Shady Acres lets him use the computer, and he pops in to cut/paste some drivel from Mother Jones or MSNBC.

Last time he was out on pass, Brobama was riding the wave of "Si Se Puede" and "Hope and Change." You'll have to excuse him for not knowing that Blowbama's approval rating is lower than Satan's... err, I mean GWB's approval rating. ;)

He'll still be writing in BHO's name in on the ballot in 2016, even after the ACA puts him in a state-run facility staffed by illegals with no medical training and washable cloth diapers.

It's kinda sad. I hope he has a couple Capitalist family members who worked hard and saved a lot of money so that he can be taken care of properly.

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When are they going to release more than just the website's hit counter?

LOL @ Oregon, never signed a single soul

Funny how this thing is "settled law" when over half of it has been temporarily waived away, by presidential fiat no less

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AZhitman wrote:Noel, meet Howie. Every once in a while, the staff at Shady Acres lets him use the computer, and he pops in to cut/paste some drivel from Mother Jones or MSNBC.

Last time he was out on pass, Brobama was riding the wave of "Si Se Puede" and "Hope and Change." You'll have to excuse him for not knowing that Blowbama's approval rating is lower than Satan's... err, I mean GWB's approval rating. ;)

He'll still be writing in BHO's name in on the ballot in 2016, even after the ACA puts him in a state-run facility staffed by illegals with no medical training and washable cloth diapers.

It's kinda sad. I hope he has a couple Capitalist family members who worked hard and saved a lot of money so that he can be taken care of properly.
"I look forward to Election Night 2016, and the moment when Clinton tops 270 electoral votes—which may well come early in the evening—and a stumbling, bumbling Rove tries to offer up some explanation for it all, making excuses for the third presidential election in a row. Maybe by then the world will agree with me, that when they say “evil genius,” they’ll know they’re only half right and auto-correct."

Not only a bumbling Rove, Fox News but also you Greg and a few others on this forum

http://news.yahoo.com/rove-may-evil-no- ... itics.html

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:spitout: :lolling:

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Dementia has set in... No other way to explain the blind adherence to a party line.

Hillaryous is a clown... at least she's got a little more foreign policy savvy than Brobama. At least she knows where Libya is.

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AZhitman wrote:Dementia has set in... No other way to explain the blind adherence to a party line.

Hillaryous is a clown... at least she's got a little more foreign policy savvy than Brobama. At least she knows where Libya is.
You are funny :chuckle:

"And I saved the best for last, because it turns out that in October, 2011, she was wearing sunglasses INSIDE AN AIRPLANE. An airplane that was LEAVING LIBYA. And you know what else is in Libya, right? Hashtag BENGHAZI!"

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/05/1 ... tail=email#

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We've gotten off topic, but I thought I'd share this.

Image

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Ex-Clinton Press Secretary Mike McCurry Bets Hillary Clinton Won't Run For President

Former President Bill Clinton's press secretary isn't bullish on the prospects of a second Clinton administration.

Mike McCurry, who served as Clinton's press secretary from 1994 to 1998, told Real Clear Politics that he may be the "last person in Washington" to think former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton will give another run for the White House a try.

"You seem to be convinced that Mrs. Clinton's running. I like to say I'm the only person on the left … the only last person in Washington who'd be willing to take some bet that she might not run," McCurry says in the interview.

The communications consultant, who currently co-chairs the Commission on Presidential Debates, explained that his position with the commission is a "convenient" way to be able to "stay out of the thick of things" and avoid taking an active role with any of the presidential campaigns.

McCurry suggested that Clinton may see her current work with the Clinton Foundation as more fulfilling than the demands of campaigning.

"I think she's doing terrific work, talk about … finding other ways to make a contribution," he said. "The work she's doing through the Clinton Foundation with her husband and her daughter, she finds terrifically rewarding. I've heard her talk about that a little bit. She gets very excited about it."

"We all know what running for president is like … shaking hands with a lot of sometimes less-than-interesting local political people," McCurry continued. "She's going to do that for the next two and a half years at age 65 when she could be doing all this great stuff on a global stage? I don't know. I think that's why she hasn't said, 'I'm doing it.'"

McCurry did say that Clinton would be a "formidable" candidate, were she to decide to run in 2016.

The former press secretary expressed a similar sense of ambivalence about a second Clinton presidential bid to The Wall Street Journal in March.

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She will run. The Democrats have nobody else to throw up there and the Republicans are too weak to beat her despite her glaring shortcomings.

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I'm not convinced just yet either way. I do have alot of sympathy for the notion that she's convinced herself to run anytime and everytime she can until she wins or dies. But then there's alot coming around that can be damaging. For one, she's hiding a major health issue, one that is supposedly going to require pretty close supervision for the rest of her life. She's catching alot of heat for her defense of the rapist decades ago. I don't think she's out of the woodshed on Benghazi just yet. Are all these things easy dismissable by the Mediatards? Sure. None are really good reasons to NOT run, but the confluence could be enough to dissuade her. Time will tell....

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Back on topic. Is this what we're in for?
Kill Obamacare, or U.S. healthcare will suffer same fate as Britain

Physicians, for example, were among the strongest opponents of the nationalization of British healthcare in the 1940s; now, they are among its keenest supporters. A similar shift is underway in the United States among the big pharma companies, who love the idea of doing cosy deals with officials controlling vast budgets. Whole new bureaucracies are springing into existence and, as Upton Sinclair liked to observe, "it is difficult to make a man understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it".

In 2013, a report into a Mid Staffordshire Hospital showed that 1200 people had died needlessly. It made for disgusting reading, in every sense. There were reports of people left lying in blood and urine, elderly patients left unassisted in toilets for hours and other things too nauseating to write about.

Obamacare isn't a precise copy of the British system. But there is one parallel on which its exponents are relying, namely the conflation of their healthcare model with the people who work in it. The chairman of the body in charge of overseeing care quality in Britain recently put his finger on the problem:

"The NHS became too powerful to criticize. When things were going wrong, people didn't say anything. If you criticized the NHS — the attitude was 'how dare you?'"

Read the full article here: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/artic ... slideout=1

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telcoman
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One thing the right is good at is fvucking up this country.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/08/opini ... ottom-well

Perhaps they'll be satisfied with a single payer system with everyone eligible for medicare

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Dude, you seriously need to find a source other than a shill for the Democratic Party. "The editorial page of The New York Times can no longer be taken seriously. It has become a house organ for the Democratic Party and its candidates and will print almost anything to help them out of a jam." http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/pet ... -editorial

Oh, and as that's apparently your only source for "news", I'm guessing you missed the article in Forbes saying "Congressional Budget Office now estimates that 8 million fewer U.S. residents will gain coverage from Obamacare than originally thought." Or that the CBO said "Each Obamacare enrollee will cost taxpayers $50,000." They estimate that about 25 million Americans will sign-up for Obamacare within the next 10 years costing a whopping $1.35 trillion.

The total cost for those Obamacare enrollees will be almost $2 trillion, but will be offset by $643 billion in new taxes, penalties and fees imposed by the new health care law.

So, fewer people insured. AND $643 billion to offset $2 trillion??? That's an Epic Fail, by any standard.

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Howie - If you had to explain OC to someone who knew nothing about the program, how would you do so?

I don't give a rat's arse WHICH political party you nutswing from, an intelligent person simply can NOT make a good case (using facts and logic) for this program. Period.

Like I said in the beginning, it will be exposed by history to be one of the biggest shams ever foisted on the American public.

If you have facts and stats to show otherwise, dredge them up. My landscaper even laughs at the mention of Obamacare - and he's exactly the demographic your nitwit POTUS had in mind when he pulled it out of his useless hindparts.

If there's one thing the Left is good at, it's pissing away other peoples' money in order to make them feel like they've addressed some social ill.

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AZhitman wrote:The fact remains the ACA is an unsustainable fraud - you can argue until your Viagra starts working, I'll still be right.
A year later, I'm still right. Funny how facts don't change over time. :)

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AZhitman wrote:Howie - If you had to explain OC to someone who knew nothing about the program, how would you do so?
Actually, let's do this. Cause I don't know as much as the next guy about it, since I pay into employer coverage and don't see anything of the market or however it works. I wanna see the purely liberal side, so I know you're the best option for me to learn about it.

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szh
Posts: 18857
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2002 12:54 pm
Car: 2018 Tesla Model 3.

Unfortunately, no longer a Nissan or Infiniti, but continuing here at NICO!
Location: San Jose, CA

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I think the backlash on April 15th, when people discover they are paying extra "taxes" for not participating, is going to be the final nail in the coffin. :yesnod

And, in this case, it will be the underprivileged who don't have the money ... so OC will hurt exactly those people for whom the law is supposedly designed for!

Z


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