I'm a new guy to the forumI just towed my 91 Q45 with 62K on it to the dealer.The active suspension started leaking on the pas. side under the trunk. $2000 just to fix the leak, and then what??The dealer said it also needed "tension rods" is this something that has to be changed?
Ron
active supension 91 Q45
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AZhitman
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Ron, you came to the right place.
Before the vultures descend on you (a 91 active w/61K miles? WOW!)....
Tension rods are a common replacement item on the Q. Order them from one of our sponsors and save some cash... Have the chain guides been replaced on your Q yet?
Lots of active suspension experts here, I'll leave this one to them.
Before the vultures descend on you (a 91 active w/61K miles? WOW!)....
Tension rods are a common replacement item on the Q. Order them from one of our sponsors and save some cash... Have the chain guides been replaced on your Q yet?
Lots of active suspension experts here, I'll leave this one to them.
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AZhitman
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Good opportunity for a search...
Timing chain guides on the 90-93 Q45 were plastic-backed and become brittle w/age. If they break, it's off to the scrap heap, as the VH45DE is NOT a cheap engine to repair/replace.
Corrected, these engines are virtually bulletproof.
If you're not certain if yours have been done, check the service history with the VIN at the dealer.
If they haven't, no other repairs mean much, as you're on borrowed time. They have been known to last over 200k w/o incident, but more early Q's have been felled by broken chain guides than any other cause.
Your car, with the updated guides replaced, will be one of the most sought-after Q45's on NICO. And trust me, there are a LOT of Q's here.
Timing chain guides on the 90-93 Q45 were plastic-backed and become brittle w/age. If they break, it's off to the scrap heap, as the VH45DE is NOT a cheap engine to repair/replace.
Corrected, these engines are virtually bulletproof.
If you're not certain if yours have been done, check the service history with the VIN at the dealer.
If they haven't, no other repairs mean much, as you're on borrowed time. They have been known to last over 200k w/o incident, but more early Q's have been felled by broken chain guides than any other cause.
Your car, with the updated guides replaced, will be one of the most sought-after Q45's on NICO. And trust me, there are a LOT of Q's here.
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maxnix
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Well, you can check with Infiniti of Beaverton for a shock, but they will replace the chains too, and perhaps other things that don't require it. One board member from Oregon City got a good buddy to do it cheap, but the good buddy was less than skilled and the engine cratered because the timing was off.
The killer is if a guide has broken and pieces are in the sump, then that has to be removed to evacuate the stray pieces. Oil pump drive chain is another candidate for replacement when torn down.
Go to Infiniti Articles forum and read there, then come back and search this forum and Infiniti Mechanic forum for guides. Don't forget to read all of Q45tech's posts also.
The senior tech Eric at Beaverton is very knowledgeable, but I don't know of any independents in Portland who are capable. They may be there, but I don't know them.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
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The killer is if a guide has broken and pieces are in the sump, then that has to be removed to evacuate the stray pieces. Oil pump drive chain is another candidate for replacement when torn down.
Go to Infiniti Articles forum and read there, then come back and search this forum and Infiniti Mechanic forum for guides. Don't forget to read all of Q45tech's posts also.
The senior tech Eric at Beaverton is very knowledgeable, but I don't know of any independents in Portland who are capable. They may be there, but I don't know them.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
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maxnix
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For the active suspension, if you are not doing it yourself, then request Eric at Infiniti of Beaverton for the best choice as anyone else will be unfamiliar with it. Tell Eric the guy from Seattle with the Jade Black low mileage 1995 Q45t recommended him to you.
Have you done the self diagnosis? Have you corresponded with Keith Bowers (TexasOil) if you need the accumulators?
IoB will install OEM parts you bring in. Why ordering from Joe makes a lot of sense and saves you dollars.Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
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Have you done the self diagnosis? Have you corresponded with Keith Bowers (TexasOil) if you need the accumulators?
IoB will install OEM parts you bring in. Why ordering from Joe makes a lot of sense and saves you dollars.Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
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maxnix
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Look at his site http://www.q45asuspension.com/ or search here for member name texasoil .__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
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You have two possible ways to look at it.
A 91 Active is not worth anything, since its a very complex car that can only be maintained by a very patient and knowledgable owner who is willing to pay much higher than average maintenance and repair costs to maintain one of the finest, but most complex, sedans ever sold. Its a hopeless case.
A 91 active with 62K miles, once you invest what is needed to take care of the problems of simple age and lack of maintenance by the previous owner, will be the working equivalent of a late model Mercedes S500 with active body control. That would set you back $50,000. Its a steal.
As we always say here at NICO, the Q is rewarding, but not for the faint of wallet!
Given the labor, don't get a used pump. The one the dealer sells will be a Nissan rebuild. You want the 12,000 mile parts and labor warranty on this, so that if any other problem surfaces, it can't be blamed on your used part.
Good luck with this car. If I saw one for sale, I would have to be tied to the mast to keep from buying it.
A 91 Active is not worth anything, since its a very complex car that can only be maintained by a very patient and knowledgable owner who is willing to pay much higher than average maintenance and repair costs to maintain one of the finest, but most complex, sedans ever sold. Its a hopeless case.
A 91 active with 62K miles, once you invest what is needed to take care of the problems of simple age and lack of maintenance by the previous owner, will be the working equivalent of a late model Mercedes S500 with active body control. That would set you back $50,000. Its a steal.
As we always say here at NICO, the Q is rewarding, but not for the faint of wallet!
Given the labor, don't get a used pump. The one the dealer sells will be a Nissan rebuild. You want the 12,000 mile parts and labor warranty on this, so that if any other problem surfaces, it can't be blamed on your used part.
Good luck with this car. If I saw one for sale, I would have to be tied to the mast to keep from buying it.
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Q45tech
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It can take 1-3 days [even a week] for the system to self purge [pump up]..........just let it sit and crank it 3-4 times per day for 10 minutes each........if it hasn't recovered after 5 days then you may need a pump..........all this assumes they have individually bled all 9 accumulators.
Even though they are a dealer they may not know much about the active system. Especially age related failures.
$3,000 isn't much, it could be another $5,000 before it works as designed at dealer prices. A conventional [non active Q] can consume $3,000 every year in repairs and maintenance.
Once the are driven into ground [so to speak] by lack of fluid changes and just general age [hoses leaks and nitrogen pressure charge dissipating].......13.5-14 years old.
Mileage doesn't count much when you get over 10 years.
Who would give you 5* or 6k for a 91 active even with low mileage, not someone who knows what they are buying [a chance to spend $8,000 soon]...........you might get $3750 LESS the cost of repairs of all systems or $1,000 dead as a parts car.
When was the transmission replaced or do you still have the problematic 91 version...........chain guides.
* Dealer retail is $5100 with all systems working tradein is $2900 less faults.
Even though they are a dealer they may not know much about the active system. Especially age related failures.
$3,000 isn't much, it could be another $5,000 before it works as designed at dealer prices. A conventional [non active Q] can consume $3,000 every year in repairs and maintenance.
Once the are driven into ground [so to speak] by lack of fluid changes and just general age [hoses leaks and nitrogen pressure charge dissipating].......13.5-14 years old.
Mileage doesn't count much when you get over 10 years.
Who would give you 5* or 6k for a 91 active even with low mileage, not someone who knows what they are buying [a chance to spend $8,000 soon]...........you might get $3750 LESS the cost of repairs of all systems or $1,000 dead as a parts car.
When was the transmission replaced or do you still have the problematic 91 version...........chain guides.
* Dealer retail is $5100 with all systems working tradein is $2900 less faults.
I'm use to fixing cars my self, felt this was a little over my head, and deceided to go the dealer route.Not used to paying large dollars.I may not keep the car very long.I like the car very much, exterior and interior are in pristine condition.transmission is orig. and I will find out about the guides, but I don't believe they have been replaced.
Ron
Ron
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Q451990
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I guess you're alreay "in for a dime...in for a dollar" with this active repair, but a conversion to standard suspension may be a good idea for you if you're wanting to cut long-term maintenence costs. A low-mileage early Q, if it was maintained well, is a wonderful machine! The chain guides should be a first priority. Get the service records from Infiniti by VIN - they are probably "archived" so call the corporate number if they can't pull them up at the dealership.
Heath
Heath
Ron,
I also own an active Q which has nearly the exact same problem as yours. Screw pennying you to death, dealers are go BIG or go home! I would buy used at most any opportunity I could as failures in the system are rare and far inbetween. There are members of this board who have done the active to reg suspension conversion. They also have there old active components for sale. I would talk to them. One such member is Dr.Q.
My 94' Q45a is currently leaking (STILL waiting for it to be taken back to the dealership to see what is leaking and where). After that I will undoubtedly be in need of used active parts as well.
In any case, there is a self-diagnostic mode which you can do yourself to test your active suspension system:
====================1) with the car shut down, transmission in P, turn the key to 'on' do not crank. 2) within 10 sec of key ON, turn the N/H switch from N to H and back 10 times, stopping in N
First series are 10's, second series is 1's5 followed by 5 is "55" which means electricals are fine.
Tell me the code once you've done this.====================
Full Travel is 5". The older your accumulators get without being repaired the more this will decrease and the harsher your ride will become. Accumulators run $200 a piece from texasoil (9 total, only 4 need to be replaced). About $1k w/ shipping.
Chain guides will cost you another $1200 to be replaced with metal versions. Without replacing these your car is essentially a ticking time bomb.
I know it's rough spending so much money on the car, but it WILL be worth it once the car is back in as-new condition. This is the time when you decide whether you're in for the long run or not... if you're not cut your losses and sign the car away.
All the best.
Corey
I also own an active Q which has nearly the exact same problem as yours. Screw pennying you to death, dealers are go BIG or go home! I would buy used at most any opportunity I could as failures in the system are rare and far inbetween. There are members of this board who have done the active to reg suspension conversion. They also have there old active components for sale. I would talk to them. One such member is Dr.Q.
My 94' Q45a is currently leaking (STILL waiting for it to be taken back to the dealership to see what is leaking and where). After that I will undoubtedly be in need of used active parts as well.
In any case, there is a self-diagnostic mode which you can do yourself to test your active suspension system:
====================1) with the car shut down, transmission in P, turn the key to 'on' do not crank. 2) within 10 sec of key ON, turn the N/H switch from N to H and back 10 times, stopping in N
First series are 10's, second series is 1's5 followed by 5 is "55" which means electricals are fine.
Tell me the code once you've done this.====================
Full Travel is 5". The older your accumulators get without being repaired the more this will decrease and the harsher your ride will become. Accumulators run $200 a piece from texasoil (9 total, only 4 need to be replaced). About $1k w/ shipping.
Chain guides will cost you another $1200 to be replaced with metal versions. Without replacing these your car is essentially a ticking time bomb.
I know it's rough spending so much money on the car, but it WILL be worth it once the car is back in as-new condition. This is the time when you decide whether you're in for the long run or not... if you're not cut your losses and sign the car away.
All the best.
Corey
Corey,
Thanks for the advise.The car is still in the shop, as of 5/14/04.got a call last night, the car is ready.I will post all the charges and what was done when I get it.I will do the self test as well.How critical is it to change out tension rods?The dealer also said that the transmission sensor was leaking?
Ron
Thanks for the advise.The car is still in the shop, as of 5/14/04.got a call last night, the car is ready.I will post all the charges and what was done when I get it.I will do the self test as well.How critical is it to change out tension rods?The dealer also said that the transmission sensor was leaking?
Ron
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maxnix
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Tension rod bearings fail when they start to leak. Critical for suspension alignment and thus regular tire wear. Transmission revolution sensor requires dropping the transmission, so replace the $10 rear seal of the engine while you are there. Get all parts from Joe at http://www.everythinginfiniti.com on your left.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
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Q45tech
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Pretty common for the revolution sensor to leak and fluid traverse the electrical cable and drip out the end of connector..........caused by owner abuse in not changing the ATF frequently.......turns acidic and destroys the o-ring seal in sensor.
Not critical as long as it doesn't throw a code, if you can put up with drips.
Upper links have a 30k life and tension rods 60-90k, depending on driving style and road roughness.......brake applications per mile.
Lots of cost difference between keep systems performing as new and just having a Q that cranks and drives down the road.
Most seem satisfied with much less than close to new performance.
Not critical as long as it doesn't throw a code, if you can put up with drips.
Upper links have a 30k life and tension rods 60-90k, depending on driving style and road roughness.......brake applications per mile.
Lots of cost difference between keep systems performing as new and just having a Q that cranks and drives down the road.
Most seem satisfied with much less than close to new performance.
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maxnix
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Ron, if your transmission is performing well, do the white papaer towel test on your fluid comparing color to newly opened fluid on same towel. If color difference is difficult to tell, then a mechanical fluid exchange and pan drop filter replacement is indicated. If fluid is browninsh or worse, your days are numbered.
My revolution sensor leaked at ~31K and eight years and after an intervening flush at 25K.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
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My revolution sensor leaked at ~31K and eight years and after an intervening flush at 25K.__________________Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45
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Brings back memories-
Quote »The killer is if a guide has broken and pieces are in the sump, then that has to be removed to evacuate the stray pieces. Oil pump drive chain is another candidate for replacement when torn down.[/quote]
of the timing gears on old Pontiacs and related motors. They used a plastic coated, metal gear. Supposedly to reduce engine noise. Thing is these things baked, became brittle and began coming apart slowly in small pieces. Small enough to float around in oil but not small enough to pass through the oil pickup screen. So we would do the timing chain replacement and soon learned (when the customer came back with a blown, oil starved motor) that this stuff collected at and formed a paste on the oil pickup screen and stopped oil from entering the pump quite effectively. Funny thing is most people opted to forgoe this vital part of the operation to save money.
of the timing gears on old Pontiacs and related motors. They used a plastic coated, metal gear. Supposedly to reduce engine noise. Thing is these things baked, became brittle and began coming apart slowly in small pieces. Small enough to float around in oil but not small enough to pass through the oil pickup screen. So we would do the timing chain replacement and soon learned (when the customer came back with a blown, oil starved motor) that this stuff collected at and formed a paste on the oil pickup screen and stopped oil from entering the pump quite effectively. Funny thing is most people opted to forgoe this vital part of the operation to save money.
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Q45tech
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We make them agree in advance to the extra $500 oil pan drop and clean, if we cannot recover every piece of the broken guides.....lay them out on a table and jig saw the puzzle together.
Otherwise you get blamed when the engine fries.
About 1 in 4 now have missing guide pieces upon opening the engine up. They also have the oil pump shaft half eaten away from the floppy chain [broken guide]. The nice aluminium dust went somewhere hopefully the oil pump just crushed it before it lodged in the oil filter.
We've been changing guides since 1996, probably have done 230 sets between 2 shops as far as I know none have sesquently failed [other than overheats and lack of oil changes]. My personal guides were changed in 1997 ..........164,000 miles ago at 100k.
Otherwise you get blamed when the engine fries.
About 1 in 4 now have missing guide pieces upon opening the engine up. They also have the oil pump shaft half eaten away from the floppy chain [broken guide]. The nice aluminium dust went somewhere hopefully the oil pump just crushed it before it lodged in the oil filter.
We've been changing guides since 1996, probably have done 230 sets between 2 shops as far as I know none have sesquently failed [other than overheats and lack of oil changes]. My personal guides were changed in 1997 ..........164,000 miles ago at 100k.