AC Conversion?

[spankme234]

I was qouted $200 by strauss to get my ac converted to r134a. I did a search on the forums but everything i found the people just ended up using r12 bc it was still avaliable. Does anyone have any experience with getting this conversion done? How much will the cooling decrease?

[Jesda]

DONT DO IT! It is completely worthless. I tried it last year.

If you can find a shop that uses "Freeze12", its the same price as R134, but slightly more effective than R12. I tried it myself, and it does work brilliantly.

[irax]

DONT DO FREEZE12! it will void any warrenty on the AC system... do not convert to R134 UNLESS you also upgread the condensor and evaporator core! its not worth it, majority of the time when you upgread the ac won't blow as cold.

[maxnix]

Do a search for Q45tech's posts.

Basically, you have to change everything for a conversion fo refrigerant to work.

[elwesso]

ive heard that some people converted to 134 on a completely otherwise factory system and it works good... its all about HOW its done... It wont work unless you get the system FLUSHED, replace the drier, and then recharge with fresh oil and refrigerant...

I think many people on this board dont recommend doing it because it never gets done right... Granted, you may not get 100% cooling by not changing the condensor and evaporator, but then again if your going to recharge the system you wont know what 100% cooling ina Q is like anyway.

[maxnix]

ive heard that some people converted to 134 on a completely otherwise factory system and it works good... its all about HOW its done...

No it isn't. Shame on you!

The condenser, the evaporator, and the expansion valve are all different.

Converting a R12 system to R134a will reduce the cooling capacity by about 15% without the mechanical system upgarades. It s in Q45tech's posts.

[Jesda]

DONT DO FREEZE12! it will void any warrenty on the AC system.

There is no warranty on a 90-92 Q45.

I used Freeze12 on a friend's 85 Maxima. This car was left under a pile of garbage for seven years with a dead transmission. After a can of F12, it was blowing ice cold (and after a new transmission it was driving nicely).

[elwesso]

Theres no need to argue brian... There may be facts, but i dont think people would LIE about something like this... 15% difference is only like 5-7F (Depending on ambient temps), a big deal to some but last time i checked 50F air vs 45F air (due to "improper" conversion) is still a lot more comfortable than 90F air that youd get with the 4/70 retrofit.... .. I think that Id be able to tell a difference but for the extra effort id live with it......

To be honest, if the cheapo conversion works for around $400 (assuming you flush the system, replace drier and correctly recharge/reoil) vs over $1200 (350 for new condensor, 450 for a new evaporator, 50 for a new expansion valve) for a new evaporator, condensor PLUS doing all that stuff, then id live with it... I dont like using used AC parts, but you could try and get it done cheaper..

The bottom line is that owners standards vary... You wont convince me that using R12 components on R134 freon is going to mess things up. A friend of mine in Indy has an old datsun and a 91 Z32, both of which he converted to 134 and using all the factory parts from there out... AC works great in both of them.. GRANTED it may not be as cold as it was in 1991 or 1974, but its a better than it was, and certainly by anyone's standards "cold"..

[Jesda]

I has to be more than a 15% loss when going from R134 to R12 on R12 hardware. I barely got any cooling from my 92 Q on R134 on an 80-degree day. I felt something, but just barely. I was better off with the windows open!

And the system was blowing ice cold before the conversion -- the year before, I replaced the compressor, drier, pressure switch, and did a flush and charge at the dealer with R12. The refrigerant was just low so it was only working intermittently.

[Meaux]

From what I understand, Freeze12 "is" 134A w/ R12 compatible oil. Thats why it can be used in a R12 system. I have 4 cans of the stuff, then found out what it was...I'm gonna use it in my 85 F 150 after I change the drier and pull a Vacuum for a few hours...

I don't see any reason why 134A can't be used in a R12 system providing that, 1) The Drier is changed, with a new one, cheap part anyway, 2)Compressor is drained of the R12 oil and filled with 134A oil, the 2 oils are different...3) A Vacuum is pulled on the system,4) Filled with straight 134A.

If you use Freeze12, I don't think you'll have to drain the compressor of the R12 oil...

Everybody seems to have different results, and like Wes says, it depends on how well the job is done...

Everything you need in on this site, including advice from professionals...I don't work for these guys, I just go there for info and parts...

http://www.ackits.com/index.cfm

[Jesda]

F12 is 80% R134 and 20% lubricant carrier. That 20% causes a change in the pressure curve. When you add F12 to your system, you only add 80% of the capacity, per Johnsen's instructions.

F12 can be used with any type of oil, but the type sold by Johnsen's is universal Ester oil.

If your system has a major leak, fix it before using F12, since the lubricant carrier will escape first due to the size of the molecule.

I am not a dealer, just a satisfied customer. Have a cool summer.

[DrewQ45]

I am not a dealer, just a satisfied customer. Have a cool summer.

Okay Jesda,

We take your ride for the Miami trip. Maxnix sits in the back!

[irax]

I sell AC systems with warrenties, if you were to buy a replacement compressor, I would not honor the warrenty if you used mixed oils.

[wamQ45]

I converted my 88 Checy PU to freez12 years ago....works great and have had no issues. On a chevy you can adjust a screw (some presure thing) to make the system cooler. Like I said works great....

[maxnix]

Theres no need to argue brian...

I beg to differ when someone who has the mantle of credibility offers incorrect information as fact.

It is just plain wrong, dishonest and disserves both the inquiring member and the board's body of knowledge as well.

Then again, some moderator's standards vary, unfortunately for those members who may rely upon them.

[elwesso]

Heres my point.. I never said it was the BEST option (as far as OEM new)..... It was asked if conversion will work... I say, yes it will if you do it right... You say, no it wont.... I am right in that regard, the AC will operate and function.. maybe not to 100%, but for some thats good enough... Probably for me thats good enough...

I talked to a friend of mine who has a Q on the phone, said he converted to 134 after doing a full flush and said it was as cold as can be... I dont have to worry about conversion, but im just going off others experiences. I doubt he took any temperature measurements.

To be honest, i would not blame anyone if they dont want to spend that much money on AC in an essentially worthless car... And yes, I agree that my standards are not as high as yours. I tend to go with the more REASONABLE side..

[Q45tech]

To be honest, i would not blame anyone if they dont want to spend that much money on AC in an essentially worthless car... And yes, I agree that my standards are not as high as yours. I tend to go with the more REASONABLE side..

Why does everyone focus on resale as to the value of a Q?

You get mental and emotional RELEASH when a car has ZERO RESALE, then you can focus on how much you enjoy it and how cuddley it is.

How much pleasure you get from spending $3,000 per year to make it happy and secure. The look on people's face is priceless when you tell them how much you spend on an essentially worthless car

Actually a perfect conversion and a r134a recharge based on pressures not weight with a clean R12 evaporator and a new R134a dryer could be only 10% worse [4.5-5.5F] warmer than a R12 new system.

Adding extra condenser fans or running multispeed fans faster might cut the difference in half.

Me I like 44-47F center vent at max fan speed........even though spec is 47F you can tweek the R12 system colder.

[Q45tech]

As with everything we moderators have different standards.Maybe we should have a warning in our signature as to how far we would go for new parts.........................sell ICE on street corner in front of Police station type moderator or just average or junk yard rummager.........jb weld, duct tape and saved string...........used fast food grease for engine oil or the Clark Howard type.http://clarkhoward.com/

[elwesso]

[Why does everyone focus on resale as to the value of a Q?

You get mental and emotional RELEASH when a car has ZERO RESALE, then you can focus on how much you enjoy it and how cuddley it is.

I guess all I can say is... Touche... Truer words have not been spoken...

SO from what it sounds like, to do a reasonable conversion you just clean everything out, recharge 134 and put in a new drier.... Thats not too bad......

how do you "tweak" the system to make it colder? By slightly altering the pressures?

[Jesda]

Why does everyone focus on resale as to the value of a Q?

Because if someone rear-ends you, all your time, money, and energy is gone. Insurance doesnt care if you spent extra for R12 or a new evaporator.

[spankme234]

wow... thank for all the good information. I think that i will call up strauss today and see if their "conversion" consist of the flush and a new drier. I for one would be prefectly happy with only a 5 degree difference in cooling. I just need some kind of ac soon! Tommorrow untill wed its going to be in the 90's and upper 80's here in nj

[elwesso]

Even $200 for a full flush and PROPER refill and you bring your own brand new OEM drier, under 300 out the door is a great price.

[Q45tech]

"Because if someone rear-ends you, all your time, money, and energy is gone. Insurance doesnt care if you spent extra for R12 or a new evaporator"

I don't understand why you would let someone rear end you?

Now what are the chances that you will get rearended unless you intentionally put yourself in a asking for it situation?

Same with an [ANY] accident period, the are no accidents only negligent drivers.

BAD KARMA DRIVERS like those with big shiny expensive wheels and loud sound systems.........which will surely cost you more than R12 or an evaporator............same with a paint job or any fanciness

Anyway if you spend $9,000 on repairs and maintenance over the last 3 years and have good legal receipts you can be assured to recover at least half the amount plus the salvage value of a car if someone else is at fault.

It is the value of your loss not the value of your car you sue for

Now if you are at fault part of your punishment is a loss and higher insurance.

[louiegz]

I don't understand why you would let someone rear end you?

Now what are the chances that you will get rearended unless you intentionally put yourself in a asking for it situation?

I know Dennis is one of the brainiest guys here at the Nico forum, but I would like him to explain how we can avoid someone rear ending our car. Does his Q have a special force field that would absorb the impact of some ditz putting on her lipstick in the car behind him ramming into him. Or maybe we can master mind control of all drivers within a 100ft radius to make sure they drive safely. Hell, almost all of the damage I have on my Q happened when my car has been parked.

All kidding aside, I do have a question. When did the Q switch over to R134a? I thought all cars after 1994 were required to run with the new stuff.

[DrewQ45]

SO from what it sounds like, to do a reasonable conversion you just clean everything out, recharge 134 and put in a new drier.... Thats not too bad......how do you "tweak" the system to make it colder? By slightly altering the pressures?

I think I'll go this route, however, I still have a question. When I called Infiniti of Scottsdale to order the dryer and a new AC belt, I was asked if I was converting to R134. When I asked what difference it made, I was told that they would sell me a different sized belt if i was. It seems there is a different compressor which has a different sized pulley for the conversion. Anyone heard of this?

..Drew...

[Jesda]

Yeah, in late 92 when they changed to R134, Nissan changed the compressor and changed the size of the belt. I ran into this the hard way when they shipped me the wrong belt. I'm glad they're asking and double checking.

Edit: The change to R134 was in 1993 with the 94 model year, not 1992 for the 93 model year. Still, the belts are different for early/late 92.
Modified by Jesda at 3:38 PM 6/17/2006

[Q45tech]

R134a requires a parallel tube condenser [and more fins per inch] vs the series loop condenser on R12..............to achieve nearly the same cooling.

Parking on the street and leaving your rear exposed..............I select who I allow to drive behind me....................vigilence --- easy to see that certain drivers are clueless and you pull over and get out of their way.

Big sign on rear: "I make my living by allowing you to rear end me and damage my body --- see you in court"....... usually gets their attention!

MORE REAR BRAKE LIGHTS with powerful LED IN ADDITION TO OEM SYSTEM

[pito11213]

I'm sorry but living in NYC and actually being rear ended by a car who didnt see traffic was stopping, you cannot avoid being rear ended all the time. Yes you can tell someone driving habits by subtle clues but lets not kid ourselves into thinking we can predict all traffic conditions.

As for the conversion of the AC systems. I never did one in the Q but I did it in my Mazda 929 on my friends Acura Legend and my Acura Legend. Now keep in mind that our compressor's were not coming on meaning that the system was empty. I used the valves supplied in the conversion kit at autozone which cost me $50. That includes 2 cans of 134-A and a can of oil. I followed the steps and in all instances, I got cold AC. Now when I say cold I do not compare to when the car was new in the early 90's. I also dont compare to todays new cars because honestly not all new cars have good feeling AC.

I could care less about the actual temperature reading simply because my comfort comes before the specs.

In my current vehicle being the Acura Legend my auto climate control actually works better than the Q45 did. It seems to be better at regulating cabin temperature. Maybe it is my imagination because I dont have acutal readings.

As far as value to a Q45. I guess Dennis means the value of one's vehicle to one's self. Value can be gauged by three options. What your car is worth in the open market. What you feel your car is actually worth based on calculations in the open market. Finally, what your car is worth to its potential owner.

[Jesda]

I've been rear ended four times in my life. Nothing like a piece of sh** Nissan Sentra to make you FEEL the impact. Crumple zone? Yeah, your spine!

A friend of mine got hit last night in his Jaguar X-type. He was stopped at an intersection and BAM. He says it felt quite gentle considering the speed and damage, like someone kicking the back of your chair.

Back on topic...

The Q went to R134a in 1994.

[chinaonnitrous]

Heres a question

I have 2 HUGE tanks of R12...

Can i Suck out all this stupid freeze 12, and throw R12 back in it?

I have a new reciver/dryer here.....

Larry