A remote turbo- lets brainstorm!

[frapjap]

First off, I posted this in the engineering section so I didn't hear crap from people who dont want to think things completely through.

I don't want to debate whether a remote turbo is going to be as efficient for a 4 cyl vs an 8 cyl etc etc.

I want to fabricate a remote turbo system cost effectively for my Mazda Protege, but I need some opinions- as I'm not extremely well versed in turbo know-how/ nor a professional mechanic.

Bottom line for me is, a remote turbo is going to be more efficient than an N/A setup and more cost effective for me than a traditional underhood setup. I don't want huge boost- only going for 4-5lbs here AT MOST- That being said... Lets talk!

1) Intake- I am a little worried about a conical under the rear end of my car- vaporlock isn't awesome. I've thought that I can plumb it into the rear of my bumper or in between the metal and plastic of my rear dust covers to avoid the ever possible deep puddle that I may accidently venture into.

Question is- what should I used as piping? I could pick up the cheap-o piping from ebay or the autostore, or I could just use that bend it yourself stuff from the local autoparts store(the accordion shaped type tubing). Either way I can couple it to the turbo. Buuuut, will the accordion style "u bend it" dissrupt air flow greatly beind ribbed?

2) How to get the oil feed line to the turbo? Are there universal oil filter adapters for this kind of thing? If so, problem solved, if not- is it worth tapping my sump? Will it flow from there? Next, should I use vaccum or stainless tubing as the vessle? Both have their perks, but I'm leaning towards stainless.

3) The return line. Again, same debate on the type of line. However, I do know that I'll tap my oil cap and apply a fastener to return the oil.

4) Turbo- The ONLY part I am not skimping on for quality- nothing used. However, I do believe that I am going to want a small turbo with an external wastegate(thinking T28) so that I can get quick spool and have some midrange power/slight top end power. ( I couldnt care if I make super awesome peak power because again, I want to do this cheap and dont want an overly expensive FMU or have to piggy back).

5) BOV- I have a good idea of where I'll mount it. Don't know if I'll bother recirculating it or not.

6) Intake- what tubing should I used to run from the turbo to the engine? I don't have a mandrel bender, and piecing together Ebay piping would be a huge time waster, so I was again thinking of the "u bend it" tubing.

But again, would it be dissrupting my air flow a noticiable or negligible amount? I've also thought that I could use semi-solid air conditioning style ducting (think what you see used in central air systems in a house). Next, I need to hang this stuff...welding. But I can handle that.

7) Now, smaller diamater exhaust makes for more collective and better distribution of exhaust gasses towards my turbo. Should I stick with a 2 in pipe, or go 2.5? Remember, I don't have a V8, so the gasses exiting isn't AS continous as a large engine. I'm asuming that smaller is better in this case. Also, should I eliminate the cat? I don't have inspections.

Thanks in advance for all of your ideas/input. I'm looking forwards to a great discussion here!






Modified by frapjap at 11:11 PM 8/26/2006

[Defiant]

Bottom line for me is, a remote turbo is going to be more efficient than an N/A setup and more cost effective for me than a traditional underhood setup.

After all is said and done, and purchased and fabricated, you may not have a payoff in cost.Quote » I don't want huge boost- only going for 4-5lbs here AT MOST[/quote]For that amount of boost, you won't need a BOV. Particularly with the sort of ilnlet tract you'd be dealing with in using a rear-mount.

Intake- I am a little worried about a conical under the rear end of my car- vaporlock isn't awesome. I've thought that I can plumb it into the rear of my bumper or in between the metal and plastic of my rear dust covers to avoid the ever possible deep puddle that I may accidently venture into.

You mean hydrolock, but your solution should be enough safeguard.

I could just use that bend it yourself stuff from the local autoparts store(the accordion shaped type tubing). Either way I can couple it to the turbo. Buuuut, will the accordion style "u bend it" dissrupt air flow greatly beind ribbed?

Flow isn't a huge concern under boost, and an intake that's six feet long won't gain a lot from having a smooth wall. Trouble is that any bendable tubing robust enough for this application will cost more than properly-fabricated real tubing.

How to get the oil feed line to the turbo? Are there universal oil filter adapters for this kind of thing? If so, problem solved, if not- is it worth tapping my sump? Will it flow from there?

Remote turbo setups use an auxilary pump, or their own oiling system. Quote » Next, should I use vaccum or stainless tubing as the vessle? Both have their perks, but I'm leaning towards stainless.[/quote] (No grasp-o.)

The return line. Again, same debate on the type of line. However, I do know that I'll tap my oil cap and apply a fastener to return the oil.

The turbo seal's not going to live under that kind of pressure. You'll need to scavenge it.

Turbo- The ONLY part I am not skimping on for quality- nothing used. However, I do believe that I am going to want a small turbo with an external wastegate(thinking T28) so that I can get quick spool and have some midrange power/slight top end power. ( I couldnt care if I make super awesome peak power because again, I want to do this cheap and dont want an overly expensive FMU or have to piggy back).

Turbo selection will take much study, and recommendation from those who deal in turbochargers.

BOV- I have a good idea of where I'll mount it. Don't know if I'll bother recirculating it or not.

Skip it for your intended pressure levels.

You have quite a project there. I don't know if being in the Engineering forum will be protection enough. Stand by for rough weather.

You might want to consider how few turbo setups are rear-mounts. It's not because of a styling issue.

[frapjap]

After all is said and done, and purchased and fabricated, you may not have a payoff in cost.

I can give here and there. Its not a project that have any kind of ability to break the bank, I just want to be different.

For that amount of boost, you won't need a BOV. Particularly with the sort of ilnlet tract you'd be dealing with in using a rear-mount.

Hmm, interesting- I never would have thoght that.

Flow isn't a huge concern under boost, and an intake that's six feet long won't gain a lot from having a smooth wall. Trouble is that any bendable tubing robust enough for this application will cost more than properly-fabricated real tubing.

After pondering it more, I could use the bendable stuff from Autozone or the like, get my shape, then use it for a mock up and bring it to a muffler shop to get properly bent/better tubing.

Remote turbo setups use an auxilary pump, or their own oiling system.

To go about setting one up- would I just run a line from the oil pan, to an outside pump, then to the turbo? Is that sufficient? You're right though, I didn't grasp the idea behind it...which is why I'm here trying to find faults.

The turbo seal's not going to live under that kind of pressure. You'll need to scavenge it.

Clarify for me?

You have quite a project there. I don't know if being in the Engineering forum will be protection enough. Stand by for rough weather.

You might want to consider how few turbo setups are rear-mounts. It's not because of a styling issue.

Oh no, no I don't expect this to be all of the research I do before I go through and actually start putting the project together- physically. I'm working with a nice fella on the Mazda forums who fabbed one up(the pics from the first post), but hes having fuel cut problems because he ran to much boost and the stock computer is maxing out the fuel it'll send and cuts it off 'round 5500 rpm.

I'm getting ideas from all over, some people don't contribute as much as others (flaming) but to hell with them. They don't have to live with it or build it. I'm here for the rough storm, I need to know the flaws that I can't see due to lack of extensive turbo experience.

Modified by frapjap at 9:31 AM 8/28/2006
Modified by frapjap at 9:33 AM 8/28/2006

[Jberger]

If you are really looking for a low boost application, you need to call jackson racing and order a supercharger kit. It's cheap, easy to install and virtually flawless in low boost operation. Plumbing and maintaining a turbo, esp. a remote turbo is an expensive, time consuming affair. The upside is high output with high boost, but I wouldn't go through all that for a low boost application. I've been running a supercharged miata for years (very similar motor) other than changing the belt every 20K miles, it's perfect. Gobs of power without the headaches.

[frapjap]

If you are really looking for a low boost application, you need to call jackson racing and order a supercharger kit. It's cheap, easy to install and virtually flawless in low boost operation. Plumbing and maintaining a turbo, esp. a remote turbo is an expensive, time consuming affair. The upside is high output with high boost, but I wouldn't go through all that for a low boost application. I've been running a supercharged miata for years (very similar motor) other than changing the belt every 20K miles, it's perfect. Gobs of power without the headaches.

Is the s/c a centrifugal type or a roots? I like my a/c

[Jberger]

Roots, eaton blower, no problems with A/C and the blower, works fine.

[frapjap]

^^^^Wow, those are some great prices!Do you think it plausible to use on the transverse version of the 1.8? I've got a Protege, but if that kit were useable, it'd be great! Compare/estimate size from your engine bay to the pics I have posted, let me know what you think...

[joe603]

STS makes kits for Chevy/Fords...maybe they will make one for Nissans??

[95lstegman]

agreed. even consider a GOOD DIY ITB setup. it's not cheap, but you can gain a good amount of power from it, and if you hooked up a boost gauge you'd find that you will make 1-2psi if you did a good job cleaning up the welds and portmatching.

if that sounds like too much work, i agree, just get a turbo.

and for the record, remote turbo = remote oiling system, i.e. get an oil cooler (a big one, since you won't be cooling the center section with water), and some braided stainless lines w/ a protective coating, and some fittings, and a small electric pump made specifically for heavier fluids, like oil. and a temp gauge would be nice to make sure the pump doesn't die and kill the turbo. just for posterity.

[frapjap]

I just ran across a guy who fabbed up his own on a third gen Camaro (yum), so we're shopping around for the most cost effective/reliable method of doing the setup. Thankfully, hydraulic supply stores are in great supply where I live, so I can compare in a 4 mile radius for the parts you mentioned.

I have a very good idea of what materials are going to make up the system, now I just have to locate them. Suprisingly, a DIY remote turbo isn't as rare of an idea as I thought it was. Thank LT-1 guys for that : ) Hopefully you'll get to see it in the upcoming months. Its a slow process, but I'm going to make damn sure I'm not wasting my time and money.

[dsagers]

Checking in to see how your project is coming?

Any chance you can provide some of the links where you found the good information?

I found a reference for an inexpensive electric Shurflo pump to pull the oil out of the turbo. Also, found a discussion on using a dry sump pump instead of an electric pump.

ThanksDavid

[ZiG]

I just have one thing to add: When you're mounting the turbo all the way in the back like that, it's a good idea to have a return pump back there too. You can buy one of the ones made for circulating differential fluid through an external cooler or something.

[Vilmenay]

Check out on the 300zx z32 forum under rear mount turbo or remote mount turbo

[bigopyro]

http://s717.photobucket.com/albums/ww178/xterra5/
I found this and I live right by sts in utah.
And this is so stupid simple and al the complains are people who wont give into change for the better!
A guy that worked ther just got off the freeway and pulled up and dumped a 5 gallon bucket of water on the turbo and all that happened was steam.
Because they don't get hot thats why they are so great perfect cold air!
They also sell snorkels which are really cool!

[numbnuts240]

[sx moneypit]

Baaaadddd kitty

[RCA]

I wish that when people post in old threads a popup reads "This is a very old thread. Did you know that?"

[Encryptshun]

I wish that when people post in old threads a popup reads "This is a very old thread. Did you know that?"

Or maybe have an arm pop out of their computer and punch them in the nads.

[numbnuts240]

NADS!!!!!!!!

[sx moneypit]

That,or just slap them upside their head.

[s0m3th1ngAZ]

Well? Did you go with a remote turbo frap?
Shoulda stuck a KL-ZE in there...

[RCA]

Zombie Bump!

[MellowZ32]

NADS!!!!!!!!

also:
NSFW
nads

[sx moneypit]

NADS!!!!!!!!

also:
NSFW
nads