A quick note on traction

[skylndrftr]

i'm just gonna comment that if this lovely 10th grade analysis was true then you would see open wheel cars running really soft bicycle tires (only being a little fecicious) during qualifying to reduce drag.

This is one of those things that really takes a lot more knowledge and is somethign you may or may not cover in some detail in a vehicle dynamics class dependng on the professors level of knowledge

[sanioll]

Only one person here brought something new to the table. Something associated with 1 dimensional physics.

I do have an answer to all the people's comments and questions, but I have no desire nor time to post it. It is not worth my time to impress bunch of teenagers.

Also internet is not a good place to take a pen and start draving diagrams and solve problems to prove a point.

[sanioll]

i'm just gonna comment that if this lovely 10th grade analysis was true then you would see open wheel cars running really soft bicycle tires (only being a little fecicious) during qualifying to reduce drag.

Most of you make comments without considering all the factors. What about thermal dynamics. mechanical, structural and thermal properties of the rubber has to be taken into account.

open wheel cars cannot run on soft bycicle tires because they would melt. Area has to be large enougth to get rid of the heat. Thicker thread but narrower tire will hold the thermal energy in it. Thus it will buildup and exceed 180F(effective tire friction temp) and will result in the failure of the tire at 220mph.

Look I am doing it again, sounds like I am speaking into a deep hole. I will not post here again.

[skylndrftr]

open wheel cars cannot run on soft bycicle tires because they would melt. Area has to be large enougth to get rid of the heat.

Look I am doing it again, sounds like I am speaking into a deep hole. I will not post here again.

ummm if you go reread what i wrote you pretty much missed the point. I was being sarcastic my friend but thats all right your done with this discussion

[Exar-Kun]

A few good factoids here,

Correction to: "softer tire needs a stiffer sidewall to support it"...

and:

"Lets see if I can manage to make since with words....if the tire is too narrow for how soft the composition is, the tire will roll off of the rim due to the side wall not giving enough support. If you widen the tire while retaining the same side wall height, you will decrease the aspect ratio allowing the sidewall to support the weight." This is incorrect;

The bladder inside of the tire suports the weight. Aspect ratio and compound can be tailored completely independantly of one another. The reason you see softer compounded tires in lower aspect ratio tires is because they GO ON CARS DESIGNED FOR THE STICKER COMPOUND. Sifewall stiffness/rigidity is also independant to some degree of load bearing capacity also...and FYI, the bead structure is how the tires stay attached..compund has nothing to do with it. Look at the drag picture..thats a high-aspect, soft compound tire..running at 3psi..how does it stay attached? THE BOLTS ON THE BEAD "bead lock"... (for why they run 3psi, look down to my next post)

ok, next issue.

The first post in this was neat, good illustrations.

Also, the "siping" being better on wider tires..the ammount of sipes present on the ground, and wet traction to a degree, is a function of tread design, not size. you have 3 square inches of contact patch, regardless of how wide the tire is..the tread design will determine how much siping gets on the road.

Likewise, treadlife is more a function of tire design and compound than width and size....

I'll be doing a ncie write up on this stuff once I finish...Until then, I'm going to lock this for future editing..

-Chet

[maxnix]

Awwww... you are no fun!

But facts are best, so thanks for sahring the pearls with the swine.

[Exar-Kun]

ALso,

while I'm correcting things...as great as the first post is..it's flawed badly.

total contact area is a function of pressure (inflation pressure) and the weight of the object the tire is supporting...

thusly, despite the entire "more life by increasing contact area"...nah. The onyl way to increase your contact patch is to put more downard force on the tire, or run it under inflated.

"After putting wider tire, which has 2 square inches area, now you are exerting 1359 newtons of downforce on 2 square inches. Which means every square inch gets (1359N/2) half the downforce. But since you've got 2 square inches it adds up to origional amount of friction."

IT WOULD HAVE THE SAME CONTACT AREA..the only difference between the wider tire and narrower one would be how the contact patch sits..the narrower the tire, the longer it gets..the wieder..the ..well..wider it gets!

Also, a wider tire has a larger TOTAL surface area, which allows it to dissipare heat better (yay!). Also, with high-downforce cars (IE, F1, DTM, IMSA GT glass) the wider tire, when additional force is being put on it, will spread out to a more 'ideal' contact patch (square)..but that's all in the FAQ.

*sigh*

-Chet

[AZhitman]

Look I am doing it again, sounds like I am speaking into a deep hole. I will not post here again.

Good idea Sani.

You started off good - But derision of others makes you look like an idiot (unless you're 100% correct, which you weren't.)