A Question for the tech's and other intellectual human beings on NICO

[4drmadness]

The dealership just replaced my throttle body under warranty. . They told me to put on the stock intake for relearning idle and other things before they would change the TB. Do you think i should straight away put back my popcharger or do you think i should wait. Im scared that the popcharger could screw up the parameters. please let me know what i should do. . thanks

[RED_DET]

I would allow it to relearn, then put the charger back on. It is no difference then when you put it on before.

[tollboothwilley]

yup, what he said

give it 200-300 miles to learn itself, then throw the intake back on

[4drmadness]

alright so like a week. thanks for the response.

[Sentientbydesign]

I personally see NO reason to have to have the stock intake on for the relearn. If I were to do the relearn after installing an intake, wouldn't that be the same as swapping the intake now?

[johnparkyourcar]

if youre being lazy then... cant you leave your aftermarket intake on and just do the throttle reset/relearn etc.?

[joe603]

I would think that the ECU needs to learn the aftermarket intake flow rates if that's what you're going to use. It doesn't make sense to have the ECU learn the stock intake then change out to the aftermarket...then doing a reset.

[RED_DET]

we know that, but the dealership obviously doesn't. So put the stock intake back on so they will be appeased, then change it back out whenever you want.

[SteveTheTech]

It's not that they don't know they don't want to do it with an aftermarket intake setup. If something breaks on an aftermarket setup it is a PITA to get a replacement part at least with the factory if something goes wrong and needs replacement it is much easier to get it covered under warranty as they usually call for the original parts that are from compounded repairs.

Not everyone requires returning your car to stock some dealers choose to go that route and I cannot blame them, I see both sides of this debate. As I am the only person who touches my wifes car and I have no Acura service records except for warranty complaints, just like you guys and Acura is much harder to get things covered not like Infiniti.

As for the original question. I would leave it there for a little while in case something doesn't work out or your CEL returns for something unrelated you wont have to put it back on. I would strongly recommend performing an idle volume learn after putting your intake back on.

[Jacko3]

I think I mentioned throttle body issues for your problem, which I had heard from my Technician with 03 and 04 Zs. When you first installed your cold air intake, did the installer or Technician reset all the parameters for the car to learn properly? This is very important because if it is not done the throttle body will go out again very soon.

If you install the air intake, you must go back and reset the idle volume relearn sequence, just as Stevethetech said, "I would strongly recommend performing an idle volume learn after putting your intake back on." If you don't perform the idle volume learn, your ECU gets confused and continually tries to compensate for air intake volumes, which is probably what killed your throttle body in the first place.

I am glad you got it fixed.

[Sentientbydesign]

I don't agree with this ^^^

There are too many people who have aftermarket intakes who don't do a volume relearn. I'm not saying it's a bad idea, hell, I even did it when I swapped out plenums, but the point is, I don't think NOT performing it caused the throttle failure. Poor quality control is a more likely culprit.

[SteveTheTech]

I think I mentioned throttle body issues for your problem, which I had heard from my Technician with 03 and 04 Zs. When you first installed your cold air intake, did the installer or Technician reset all the parameters for the car to learn properly? This is very important because if it is not done the throttle body will go out again very soon.

You are right. It is not a guarantee or a cause of failure, it is resetting the RAM for base parameters. The IAV leaning sets the base idle speed and calculates what closed throttle maf voltage is supposed to be. If it were my car I would want to get any benefit I could of my new intake setup.

[Sentientbydesign]

Steve,

Are you saying that not doing a volume relearn with an aftermarket intake can/will cause the throttle body to fail?

[Jacko3]

I disagree with you. When you install an after market intake that was not tuned with the car and the manufacturers ECU, you cause several other variables in the ECU to provide wrong and conflicting signals to parts of the car that controls air and fuel mixtures.

These signals are discrete electrical signals that fluctuate so inconsistently when the learning sequence is not accomplished, that it ultimately leads to a burn out of an electrical component as is the case with the throttle body. So, yes, an fter-market intake system, particularly when you have no proof that an idle volume and/or throttle position learning sequence was conducted on the car after the install, can technically void your warranty, and thus StevetheTech is right about that.

The idea with electrical signals, to include the grounding wire you produce, is to avoid inconsistent electrical signals or fluctuations or rather improve the smooting-out process of the electricity. Electricity can flow smoothly or roughly. When it flows roughly, which is what you want to avoid, barring aging of the equipment, it will cause a premature burn out of an electrical component. And , if it flows too tightly/smoothly, which is what grounding kits actually accomplish, under an unsual level of load for reasons I cannot imagine at this time--faulty battery for example, some electrical component can fail as well since they may not have enough resistance or a good margin of it, to resist the load, since everything is already tight to begin with.

The throttle body itself is not the part that goes bad in our G's but right behind the throttle body of the G's is sensor that is inbuilt in the black side of the throttle body---and when that sensor goes, the whole throttle body is gone. Of course, manufacturer defects is always a concern but simply ignoring the idle volume and throttle posiiton learning sequence and process when you introduce a new variable such as an after-market air intake system, in a self-learning system such as in a G, is a recipe for failure and continuous failure of that part and other associated electrical parts in the car. Introducing a new system to a self-learning system, invariably causes the ECU to send and receive inconsistent or rough flow of electricty, or if you will, unnecessary load on electrical components, which ultimately will lead to or cause a burn out.

Every single time I have installed a component on my car, my Technician ensures all the parameters are reset so that the self-learning system can gently move the prameters to where they are safe for the car. The G-35 cannot keep itself safe it if has no idea or basis to start the process of protecting itself. Beleive me, the ECU was the culprit and not the throttle body itself. The ECU over time, without the re-learning sequence, overloaded or underloaded the throttle body sensor, which ultimately led to its burn out.

I don't do anyhting to my car without thinking about how the ECU will respond to it. THE ECU of the G is the heart of your G. Take care of it like a baby and make sure it learns all the time or else something will break. So, if you wan tto understand what I have said, think in terms of a central controller or CPU that needs good or adjusted data to send good information to the part of the car that requires it. Without a basis for good or dajusted data, the ECU will allow wrong or dangerous information to go out and destroy something else unwittingly. And it gets good data by the self-learning process Nissan has built into the car, which i like and commend them.


Modified by Jacko3 at 11:13 AM 12/5/2008

[SteveTheTech]

Not cause a component failure as much as increase the liklihood of performance issues, possible high idle and maybe decreased fuel economy. It's easy to do it only takes five minutes why is even up for debate?

[Sentientbydesign]

Not cause a component failure as much as increase the liklihood of performance issues, possible high idle and maybe decreased fuel economy. It's easy to do it only takes five minutes why is even up for debate?

I wasn't debating anything with you. I just wanted to understand what exactly you were stating. Based on your reply, what you said and what Jacko said are NOT the same thing.

I'd prefer that someone reading this thread doesnt' think that throttle body failure is a result of not recalibrating with an aftermarket intake.