A Newbie who needs help from the experts on buiyng an aftermarket system

[nycelta]

Hi All,

I just joined this board...and I'm glad to have found it. I am in the process of purchasing a 2008 2.5S Altima Coupe. I wanted Azure Blue w/ Blonde Leather interior, but not a single dealer on the East Coast or Southwest either, has one. So I either am buying a Blue w/ Black Leather Interior & Premium Package or...buying the Blue w/ Blonde Cloth interior w/ Convenience and Moonroof and putting the savings in an aftermarket stereo system and new wheels/tires.

I work for Best Buy part-time (ok, cue all the Worst Buy jokes) to help pay my bills (I have a professional career as well), so I can buy the equipment at a discount or vendor accomodation price. I live in Westchester County, NY (outside of Manhattan).

I have done a bit of reading, but I'll admit that many of you go way over my head with product understanding...and I don't feel confident in my ability to read diagrams to be able to install it myself.

So to get to the point...I'd like to purchase a nice, complete aftermarket system (head unit, speakers, sub) without spending a fortune. In the $1250-$1500 range (including install) could I get something nice? Brands that I can purchase at a discount include Alpine, Pioneer, and Infinity. Your recommendations are really appreciated.

Also, does anyone know of a reputable car audio place (that would install everything professionally and correctly) in the lower Westchester / NY area?

And if you can dumb your response down, I'd be very grateful.

If anyone has any questions on LCD/Plasma tvs, I'd be glad to make a recommendation, lol.

Thanks again!

[AppleBonker]

I have done a bit of reading, but I'll admit that many of you go way over my head with product understanding...and I don't feel confident in my ability to read diagrams to be able to install it myself.

I have confidence in your ability to install yourself. You'll feel much better about it if you do. Plus, all of us will help you if you get stuck. Save the install money and problems that generally go with it and do it yourself. Then you can spend that money on better equipment.

So to get to the point...I'd like to purchase a nice, complete aftermarket system (head unit, speakers, sub) without spending a fortune. In the $1250-$1500 range (including install) could I get something nice? Brands that I can purchase at a discount include Alpine, Pioneer, and Infinity. Your recommendations are really appreciated.

I'm obviously (if you've read any of my previous posts) an Alpine guy. I'm very happy with my IVA-W205 head unit (it is being replaced by the IVA-W505 so if BB still has it in stock you might be able to get it at a really good price). The IVA-W505 is an excellent unit as well. If I had the money, I'd be upgrading to it. I also like the Kenwood that Doc has a lot, but if I'm not mistaken, BB doesn't carry Kenwood (been a while since I've been in a Best Buy for anything other than movies).

You'll probably want to stick with component speakers up front (they'll give the best sound quality). Read the FAQ in my signature for an explanation of what component means if you're not familiar. The Infinity Kappa's (pretty sure BB sells them, they're on the website) are decent speakers. I think the tweeters can be a bit bright/harsh so definitely give them a listen at the store if possible. I'm fairly certain there have been people who installed them in an Altima (although maybe not on these boards). Remember that for pretty much any aftermarket speakers you'll want to amp them (which will add slightly to your costs). Not sure what amps you can get at discount, but the Alpine PDX-5 is an exceptional amp (though maybe would push out of your price range depending on discounts).

Doc can probably help out more with the RF subs that BB carries. The Alpine Type-R is a hog though and can handle tons of power. Are you more interested in sound quality or just getting loud? That will help with our recommendations.

Next time you go into work, start looking at these things and pricing stuff out. Then let us know what you're looking at and we'll see if we can give some better (more specific advice).

Also, does anyone know of a reputable car audio place (that would install everything professionally and correctly) in the lower Westchester / NY area?

Once again, I'd highly recommend doing this yourself. I was scared when I did my first install that I'd screw something up. If you take your time, it's actually quite simple. And, after doing one, you'll be ready to take on any future install.

PS - DLP over Plasma/LCD anyday!!! Yeah, I'm a home A/V nut as well. Who'da thunk?

[nycelta]

Apple Bonker,

Thanks so much for the feedback. A couple of things to add: I spoke with the 1 car audio installer at my BB store who came recommended by everyone...there are 3 guys there, but there is 1 guy who is apparently really good. I spoke to him tonight and he made nearly identical suggestions to what you had recommended! He is also an Alpine guy...and he said that the cost of installation for me (as an employee) wouldn't be bad at all. I probably could offer to assist him so that I still get a hands-on feel for the process. I just am nervous at doing it myself...if I had you or Doc in the NY area, then I'd love to work with either of you...but since I don't, this installer at Best Buy is apparently very trustworthy and pays attention to detail (this from other employees who specifically told me not not to bring it to 1 of the other guys). But if someone does know of an excellent, yet affordable car audio installer in Westchester...I'm all ears. I promise that I'm not being lazy...I just know absolutely nothing about cars to begin with (other than how to negotiate a very good price for one ).

So here's where I'm at with the equipment -- my answer to your question of loudness vs. quality is an easy one...I'm a quality over quantity guy in all things. I care about the sound quality when riding in it...not that someone a half-mile away can hear it (no offense to anyone who does prioritize loudness).

I don't really have a need for a head unit w/ a DVD player (unless there is some compelling reason why I would need one). So I was looking at the following:

What are your opinions on the below:

Head Unit: Either the Alpine iDA x-100 or the Alpine CDA-9886. Both seem to be well rated, and well priced (especially with the BB discount). I see that the iDA x100 doesn't play cds...which is a bit of a turn-off, but could work well with my Iphone.

Speakers: Infinity Kappa 60.9CS or Alpine SPR-17S for the 6 1/2"s?Infinity Kappa 692s for the 6x9's?

Amp: I can't get the Alpine PDX-5 from BB. Would either the PDX 4.1 or PDX 1.6 be ok??

Sub: Silly question, but do I need 2 or can I go with just 1? I'll already be working with a small trunk, and I don't want to take up the whole thing with subwoofers. And again, I'm concerned with sound quality...so if I can achieve a nice sound with a smaller sub, then I'm all for it. BB seems to carry a couple of nice Pioneer subs and RF's.

I really appreciate all of your help and feedback (and if anyone else wants to jump in, then I welcome it). Thanks for helping out a newbie!

[AppleBonker]

I probably could offer to assist him so that I still get a hands-on feel for the process.

Based on horror stories I've heard about BB installs, I would never let one of their installers touch my car unless I was watching the whole process (actually, I personally would never let one of their installers touch the car under any circumstances, but that's just me being anal). Since you're an employee, they should let you do this. I would highly recommend it so that you can make sure nothing gets butchered. Plus, it should demonstrate how easy everything actually is.

Head Unit: Either the Alpine iDA x-100 or the Alpine CDA-9886. Both seem to be well rated, and well priced (especially with the BB discount). I see that the iDA x100 doesn't play cds...which is a bit of a turn-off, but could work well with my Iphone.

Personally, I like the 9886 better. The X100 has a better screen, but I like some of the features of the 9886 more. Both should work with your iPhone. Also, the 9886 has higher voltage pre amp outs so it should work better with aftermarket amplifiers (not to mention the ability to play CDs). My IVA-W205 (which is about the same age as the 9886 and utilizes the same interface cable) works perfectly fine with a 3G iPhone for music. I've never tested it receiving a phone call while connected to the iPod interface cable trying to use bluetooth, so I can't speak to this ability.

For me, the only compelling reason for most to go with a DVD unit is the ability to add navigation. Some like to watch movies or allow their passengers to watch them. If you're not interested in either of these, the single DIN units should be fine. Most of the touchscreen units also have more tuning options and are easier to navigate menus, but for what you're interested in these might not be necessary (also, cheaper units lets you put more into speakers/amps).

Speakers: Infinity Kappa 60.9CS or Alpine SPR-17S for the 6 1/2"s?Infinity Kappa 692s for the 6x9's?

Neither of those sets should be bad. I would listen to both at the store if you get a chance, as this might help you decide on personal preferences. I don't know that I could say that either of those would be exceptionally better than the other, so go with what you like.

Read the FAQ on rear fill as you might decide you don't need it. If you're going to throw speakers in the back, you should try to match them with what is up front. So if you go with Infinitys in the rear, you probably want to do the same up front. Most manufacturers will have similar sounding speakers and this should make the experience as a whole better.

Amp: I can't get the Alpine PDX-5 from BB. Would either the PDX 4.1 or PDX 1.6 be ok??

If you go with rear speakers, you would need a 4 channel amp for the interior speakers and a mono amp for the subwoofer(s). I love my Alpine PDX amps, so I'm clearly biased towards them. They are pricey, but for that money you get good power in a reliable and small package. A PDX-4.100 would work well for the interior, and the PDX-1.600 would work well for the substage (however, depending on what you go with this might be way too much power). These amps are stackable (see the pic of my trunk over the battery compartment), so they wont take up that much space. Mine also run exceptionally cool (they are efficient little buggers, so their power draw is not insane). A combination of these two might be expensive, but I would say it's well worth the money. You could hang on to those two amps for a while and upgrade around them as desired.

Sub: Silly question, but do I need 2 or can I go with just 1? I'll already be working with a small trunk, and I don't want to take up the whole thing with subwoofers. And again, I'm concerned with sound quality...so if I can achieve a nice sound with a smaller sub, then I'm all for it. BB seems to carry a couple of nice Pioneer subs and RF's.

You can definitely go with one sub. Two subs will always be louder than one (unless you're talking the extremes - two of the crappiest subs versus one of the best). If you're looking for clean and a nice bass note, one sub should be acceptable. A 10" sub will generally hit cleaner than a 12" (again unless you're talking extremes - my 12" is incredibly clean, but also outrageously expensive). A 12" sub will likely hit lower, however. One ten or twelve may be just the answer you're looking for - it can provide the extra lows you want, without taking up the entire trunk. And, if you're looking for clean sound, be sure to go with a sealed box, not ported (the FAQ should have more info on this as well).

It looks like BB only carries RF Punch subs (personally, I'm not that much of a fan of the Pioneer stuff). The power subs are much better. The punch subs aren't horrible, but they're probably not the greatest either (not to mention one punch sub would be way overpowered by the PDX-1.600 if that's what you go with). Based on what it looks like BB sells (from the website), I would recommend the Alpine Type-R. I've seen people burp those with 2500 watts, so they can handle more than they're rated for. The Type-R is rated for 500 watts RMS, I believe, so it would be a good match with the PDX-1.600.

I'm not sure if my recommendations are blowing you way out of your budget (as I have no idea what your discount is like). Let me know where you're at and I can step things down somewhat as necessary. Good luck!

[Rolling Estonian]

Head Unit: Either the Alpine iDA x-100 or the Alpine CDA-9886.

I have a CDA-9885 (which I think is now discontinued) and love it, works great with my i-pod touch. the 9886 looks pretty much the same, so I recommend that!

[AppleBonker]

I have a CDA-9885 (which I think is now discontinued) and love it, works great with my i-pod touch. the 9886 looks pretty much the same, so I recommend that!

I think the 9886 has 4 volt preamp outputs whereas the 9885 is 2 volt I believe (which should work better with an aftermarket amplifier). I think both are good units though. Thanks for chiming in with personal experience (since I've never run either, just seen them in others' cars).

[nycelta]

Apple Bonker -- thanks for becoming a fast friend on these boards! Your feedback is really appreciated by someone who is otherwise clueless about car audio. Thanks also to Rolling Estonian for the feedback.

I did quite a bit of research tonight (and will share those results), but first a question. In speaking with a friend who works in Magnolia Home Theater (the guy is a walking encyclopedia when it comes to Home Theater) I told him what I was planning to do and he warned me to be careful as adding an amp voids the manufacturer's warranty...and could lead to electrical problems (I guess he was implying if it not installled by someone who is knowledgeable). He used the example of someone who used to work at our BB who had installed a Turbo-something (not sure which system he said or who installed it) in his Saab and he ended up damaging his transmission, and had to completely remove and rewire everything before bringing the car back to the dealer (and then had problems again with the same system after it was fixed). I really am new to all this -- is that a real concern? I'd hate to void my warranty on a car that I'm just buying. (If I can still create a nice sounding stereo system and not void the warranty, that would be preferrable -- but I'll listen to the experts on this.)

Secondly, since I am much more concerned with sound quality and not the loudness of the system, do I really need 2 amps? I'd rather pay for whatever is going to make the system sound best on the high trebles.

Also, how would the system that I lay out below compare with the Bose system that comes with the Premium Package? Would this design be comparable, almost as good, or significantly better? (I know that it obviously is a heck of a lot better than what you get with the stock stereo system).

As requested, here are the specific details (employee prices depend on in-store availability):

Head Unit -- 1) Alpine iDA -x100 BB Retail Price $314.99 Employee Price $202.65 2) Alpine CDA-9886 BB Retail Price $269.99 Employee Price $195.30

Speakers -- 1) Alpine 6 1/2" Component SPR-17S BB Retail Price $229.49 Employee Price $131.25 2) Infinity 6 1/2" Component KAPPA60.9CS BB Retail Price $224.99 Employee Price $112.89

1) Alpine 6"x9" Type-S SPS-609 BB Retail Price $107.99 Employee Price $63.00 2) Infinity 6"x9" KAPPA 692.9I BB Retail Price $179.99 Employee Price $76.97

Subwoofer -- 1) Alpine 12" SWR-1242D BB Retail Price $206.99 Employee Price $105.00 2) Alpine 10" SWR-1042D BB Retail Price $179.99 Employee Price $94.50

Amps -- 1) Alpine 400W Amp PDX-4.1 BB Retail Price $449.99 Employee Price $262.50 2) Alpine 600W Class D Mono PDX 1.6 BB Retail Price $449.99 Employee Price $262.50

So assuming 1 amp for now (and choosing the most expensive item in each category -- which obviously may not be the best option and where I need guidance)...it comes out to either $1483 BB Retail w/ tax or $835.77 for the Employee Price. I could probably also save a few more dollars if I buy an open box item (any thoughts against this in the car audio world?). The 2nd amp pushes the BB price to $1966.50 BB Retail w/ tax or $1117.63 Employee Price.

Of course I still have to add in installation...which I would get a discount on at BB...or as I am not confident in doing this on my own, taking it to a professional car audio place...which would probably cost several hundred dollars for the install of the above equipment.

You also noted the need for an enclosure for the Alpine sub...what should that run price wise?

And if you have suggestions on other speakers which might be just a step up in price, but significantly better quality -- I'm all ears. And would the above build be considered a decent or good system by those in the know (not trying to impress anyone -- in my early 30s, so too old for that, lol...just curious from a quality perspective)?

Thanks so much for all of your help. This board (especially Apple Bonker) is an amazing resource.

And Apple Bonker -- imho, even better than the current DLPs is the Samsung 650 LCD (even better than the newer 750 w/ identical specs.)...though Pioneer plasmas will always win out...for those who can afford them, and have the right lighting setup. Pioneers black levels rate off the chart.

And checking this thread has become something I look forward to doing.

[nycelta]

Apple,

I read through you great FAQ on rear fill. Should I nix the 6"x9" rears? Or does the Alpine CDA 9886 have the ability to turn off the rear speakers (or is this only an available option on higher end head units?)?

If this makes everything cheaper and sound better, then I'm all for it. I guess I would have to tell whoever installs to disable the rear fill speakers.

Thanks....

[AppleBonker]

Lots of questions here. Let me see what I can do!

In speaking with a friend who works in Magnolia Home Theater [...] he warned me to be careful as adding an amp voids the manufacturer's warranty

Absolutely untrue. For it to void the warranty, Nissan would have to prove that what you did to the car caused the malfunction. You would be drawing a bit more from the electrical system, but it certainly shouldn't be enough to damage it (look at what I'm running and have had no problems yet - knock on wood). I cannot see anyway that an aftermarket stereo could be the cause of transmission problems. There just is no way. It will void the warranty on the stereo portion of the car, however. Other than that, I have a hard time seeing how they could prove the stereo messed anything else up.

Secondly, since I am much more concerned with sound quality and not the loudness of the system, do I really need 2 amps? I'd rather pay for whatever is going to make the system sound best on the high trebles.

One amp would power the inside speakers and one for the sub(s). To make inside speakers sound good, an amp is certainly a requirement. Head units do not push enough power to make the speakers sing. Plus, the power is not the cleanest, so running the system and elevated volume would be more likely to damage the speakers than with an aftermarket amp. Amps can make the music louder (although that really isn't their purpose). They are designed to give clean power so the sound they deliver is crisp and clear.

Also, how would the system that I lay out below compare with the Bose system that comes with the Premium Package? Would this design be comparable, almost as good, or significantly better? (I know that it obviously is a heck of a lot better than what you get with the stock stereo system).

Not to offend anyone who has the Bose system and likes it, but it's crap. The system you have drawn out here will blow it out of the water, no joke. It doesn't take much to beat any factory car stereo (with few exceptions, and Bose isn't one of those exceptions). In fact, my first car stereo (which ran about $1000 retail - and I got ripped off) would put the Bose system in this car to shame. I would've never gotten Bose with my car if I had the option. Unfortunately, it's lumped in with the other options I wanted, so I was SOL.

I'll highlight what I would do here(price in italics). Again, this is purely my opinion, nothing more.

Head Unit --2) Alpine CDA-9886 BB Retail Price $269.99 Employee Price $195.30

Front Speakers -- 2) Infinity 6 1/2" Component KAPPA60.9CS BB Retail Price $224.99 Employee Price $112.89

Rear Speakers -- Skip for Now 1) Alpine 6"x9" Type-S SPS-609 BB Retail Price $107.99 Employee Price $63.00 2) Infinity 6"x9" KAPPA 692.9I BB Retail Price $179.99 Employee Price $76.97

Subwoofer --2) Alpine 10" SWR-1042D BB Retail Price $179.99 Employee Price $94.50

Amps -- 1) Alpine 400W Amp PDX-4.1 BB Retail Price $449.99 Employee Price $262.50 2) Alpine 600W Class D Mono PDX 1.6 BB Retail Price $449.99 Employee Price $262.50

If you add up all the italics (which is how I would probably piece a system together), you come to a total (this is the employee price) of $927.69. You can always add rear speakers at a later date if you determine to want them. Buying the 4.100 will give this option (as well as the head room to upgrade to running active later if you ever decide to make this plunge). For around a grand, that will be a pretty mean sounding stereo (and will still impress a lot of people - even though that's not your goal).

Of course I still have to add in installation...which I would get a discount on at BB...or as I am not confident in doing this on my own, taking it to a professional car audio place...which would probably cost several hundred dollars for the install of the above equipment.

Well, if you trust the recommended guy at BB, you can go that route. Like I said, I would ask to be present for the entire install. Tell them you want to learn how to do it, and help out where possible (although your primary goal should be to monitor your car so she doesn't get butchered). If the installer that you mentioned is any good, he'd be happy to show you what he's doing. I know whenever I help people out, I show them what I'm doing and explain the reason why. I'm more of the "teach a man to fish" sort of person. Without sound deadening (which would be useful, although much more expensive/time consuming - so I understand the trade off here and that you probably wouldn't want to do this), this entire install could probably be completed in under 4 hours if done correctly (that's with frequent breaks factored in). You might want to try talking to the installer personally and see if he'd be willing to come to your house or something and do this on the side. That way you could pay less than what BB would charge, but give it directly in cash so he'd make out better too. Just a thought.

You'll also need the associated wiring (power/ground cables and signal cables as well as fuses, etc.). This should probably be under about $200. I would recommend going with 1/0 power and ground from the battery back. Then a distribution block may be needed to route power to both amps. Based on what I'm seeing here, it looks like this will run up to about your $1500 ceiling (isn't it nice how everything always seems to get to budget or over, never under?). It would definitely be worth saving up a bit to do this right, rather than skimping and needing to spend more later to fix.

You also noted the need for an enclosure for the Alpine sub...what should that run price wise?

I've built my own enclosure out of MDF before for under $50. It looks like BB carries a couple of single sub sealed enclosures (between 0.6-0.7 cubic foot internal volume) for under $75 retail. That Type-R likes to have right about that much volume, so they should work fine. It would just be a matter of checking if they fit your trunk.

And if you have suggestions on other speakers which might be just a step up in price, but significantly better quality -- I'm all ears. And would the above build be considered a decent or good system by those in the know (not trying to impress anyone -- in my early 30s, so too old for that, lol...just curious from a quality perspective)?

With the prices you get as a discount, it will be hard to compete. There are certainly better speakers out there, but it would probably take a jump in price to get there. For what you're looking for, I think what you have here would be perfect.

And Apple Bonker -- imho, even better than the current DLPs is the Samsung 650 LCD (even better than the newer 750 w/ identical specs.)...though Pioneer plasmas will always win out...for those who can afford them, and have the right lighting setup. Pioneers black levels rate off the chart.

Now that I've answered some of the other questions, I'll indulge in this debate. Most people are looking to buy flat panel tv's to keep up with the Joneses. Then, they need somewhere to put their DVD players, game systems and cable/satellite boxes, so they purchase a TV stand. Then, they hang the TV on the wall, above the stand. What a waste of space, IMO. Might as well get a rear projection unit that will be bigger, have better specs and be cheaper and just place it on the stand you're already buying. For me, it was a no-brainer. I ended up with the Mitsubishi Diamond WD-65833 (I think Magnolia used to carry them, but it's last year's model - I've had it for about a year, got it when it came out) for about $2300 (Check Specs Here). There's no way I could touch those specs for anywhere near that price, even in a significantly smaller screen size (which, let's be honest, is never an option). Just my $0.02 though, cause there are situations where LCD/Plasma are fantastic options, just not as common as the average buyer makes them out to be...

[AppleBonker]

Apple,

I read through you great FAQ on rear fill. Should I nix the 6"x9" rears? Or does the Alpine CDA 9886 have the ability to turn off the rear speakers (or is this only an available option on higher end head units?)?

If this makes everything cheaper and sound better, then I'm all for it. I guess I would have to tell whoever installs to disable the rear fill speakers.

Thanks....

Answered this in my previous post. I'd leave them out. You can always add later (and this would be painfully simple since everything would already be in the trunk, just need to run a few wires and replace the physical speakers).

[nycelta]

Apple,

Your reply could be post of the year. Thanks for the detailed feedback. A couple of quick questions.

Since you're such an Alpine guy, why did you pick the Infinity Kappa component speakers? Are they just simply better than the Alpines that I had listed?

Which amp gets hooked up to the interior speakers? Which to the sub?

And finally -- if I'm able to find some of these items as open box items (meaning returns which have been checked out to make sure that they work)...do you see any issues with that in the world of car audio? I know that in home theater that open box items are absolutely fine for purchase (and you would get the same warranty as a new in-box). Just wondering if the electronics in car audio are a bit more flakey. This could be a way to save additional money (which is the number 1 priority here).

Could you maybe give a couple of specific suggestions on the cables -- then I'll search for them on the BB website?

Thanks again!

[AppleBonker]

Since you're such an Alpine guy, why did you pick the Infinity Kappa component speakers? Are they just simply better than the Alpines that I had listed?

I've never personally been a fan of Alpine speakers (aside from some of their subs). I personally like the sound of the Infinity speakers better. Like I said, my opinion, and you'd be better served by listening to the two yourself and making your decision from there.

Which amp gets hooked up to the interior speakers? Which to the sub?

The 4.100 will connect to up to four interior speakers (if you leave the rears out for now, you'll only have two connected, so half of the amp will not be used unless you decide to install rears later - or, not sure if you can order the Alpine PDX-2.150 since it's not stocked at BB, might be cheaper and is only for powering two speakers). The 1.600 will go to the sub.

And finally -- if I'm able to find some of these items as open box items (meaning returns which have been checked out to make sure that they work)...do you see any issues with that in the world of car audio? I know that in home theater that open box items are absolutely fine for purchase (and you would get the same warranty as a new in-box). Just wondering if the electronics in car audio are a bit more flakey. This could be a way to save additional money (which is the number 1 priority here).

If you can get them with a warranty they might be ok. Personally, I wouldn't trust the average BB customer to know what they're doing when installing an amplifier. I have purchased used car stereo equipment before, but that was from people who I know do not abuse audio equipment (based mostly on the knowledge they have about the field). The only problem with used car audio is that car audio is easy to abuse. Setting the gains to high can easily damage either an amp or speakers. There's not too much in home theater that is that simple to damage. If it has a warranty, you should be safe though. All up to you and how much you trust the returned good.

Could you maybe give a couple of specific suggestions on the cables -- then I'll search for them on the BB website?

Cables don't matter too much for brand, just diameter. I've used these for a number of installs (maybe not from that specific seller).

You can find distribution blocks and fuses here or here (I've used both of those places and been happy).

You'll also need signal cables (similar to the RCA Cables from home theater). They sell these at BB so you should be able to find them by car stereo. The links above are just ideas. You might find similar cheaper at BB with the employee discount. But you might not. Also, you might want to think about a PAC steering wheel control adapter so you can maintain those controls (should be able to find one on eBay, more info on this is in the FAQ).

Any more questions, let me know.

[iammai]

Could you maybe give a couple of specific suggestions on the cables -- then I'll search for them on the BB website?

Thanks again!

Get your cables at best buy. The employee discount is really good on cables. I would reccomend the RF cables/wires.

[AppleBonker]

Get your cables at best buy. The employee discount is really good on cables. I would reccomend the RF cables/wires.

I've run RF power/ground and signal cables and they work just as well as anything. If the discount is good, definitely go that route!

[nycelta]

Apple,

Assuming that I can get my Azure Blue 2.5S with Convenience & Moonroof with the Blonde Cloth interior (I'll find out today), should I have the new stereo system installed first, or the leather seats done first (or doesn't it matter)?

As a newbie, didn't know if either process is invasive and could affect the other. So if there is a correct order in how to do this -- I'll follow that advice.

Thanks!

[AppleBonker]

Apple,

Assuming that I can get my Azure Blue 2.5S with Convenience & Moonroof with the Blonde Cloth interior (I'll find out today), should I have the new stereo system installed first, or the leather seats done first (or doesn't it matter)?

As a newbie, didn't know if either process is invasive and could affect the other. So if there is a correct order in how to do this -- I'll follow that advice.

Thanks!

It would probably be easier to install the stereo while the seats aren't in the car. However, since two different locations are doing the jobs, this is not an option. In that case, it doesn't really make any difference which is done first. Actually, now that I think about it, if the cloth seats aren't power and the leather seats are, do the stereo install while the cloth is still in there. With mine, once the battery was disconnected (for safety reasons while installing the HU of course), I couldn't move the driver seat so it was a bit more difficult. Other than that, it shouldn't matter.

[nycelta]

What's going on Apple (and everyone else who might be reading this thread),

I will find out today if I'm able to get my 2008 Azure Blue Coupe w/ Convenience and Moonroof...apparently there's only 1 that's not accounted for in the tri-state area (NY, NJ, CT) and the dealer I'm working with has yet to confirm that they can swap for it. Fingers crossed...

Now back to my system dilemma...I visited a car audio place in Westchester County near the Best Buy that I work at. It's a staff of mostly young guys (all but the owner are younger than me -- I'm 33). The head installer is 23, but said that he's been building systems since 15.

When I showed them the list of equipment that you helped me to assemble, they agreed that it was all good equipment even though they don't carry Alpine (no surprise that they thought it was good based on your level of expertise). However, they did have a few comments -- (and are these legitimate?) they said to definitely go with the 6X9's as once the system is properly tuned it will have a richer sound than just using the front interiors. They also said that if I just put in the Infinity Kappa 6 1/2" components without the rears that it's possible that too much power could be sent from the amp and that at certain volumes, it could damage the front speakers. I'm probably massacring what they actually said (but that's how I recall the conversation).

From a sound perspective they said they completely understood that I had to buy Best Buy-available equipment as I get nearly a 50% discount on some of it...but they said for sound quality the JL speakers blow the Infinity's a way. They were telling me about a guy from an orchestra who had his car done there who was blow away by being able to hear certain cymbals with the JLs. The owner said that the JLs for $450 are as good as you can get or need before spending ridiculously more for competition-level speakers.

Either way, I still have to go for the Kappas as I can buy them for about $120. They estimated $400 total for the install including the distribution block and any cables. I know that the guy at BB can probably do it for me cheaper, but I'd rather pay $200 more and have it done right (they also mentioned some BB stories-- mostly of a BB installer making some mistakes and bringing the cars to them to fix).

I can still try to find other recommended car audio places in the area, and shop around...it's hard as no one seems to live in this area to have any input on a reputable shop.

Thanks again for all your advice! Can't wait to show you pictures when it's done! And here's what might be a stupid question...if installing the equipment is so easy as you and Doc say...why do so many places butcher the work?

[rjdmmfl1]

I know I've slacked up a bit lately applebonker, but really, there doesn't seem to be a need for me to chime in on this discussion... thanks for keepin' the info flowing my man...

However, they did have a few comments -- (and are these legitimate?) they said to definitely go with the 6X9's as once the system is properly tuned it will have a richer sound than just using the front interiors.

Depending on the tuning of the front soundstage, this may not be accurate. BUt again, the tuning must be just right!

They also said that if I just put in the Infinity Kappa 6 1/2" components without the rears that it's possible that too much power could be sent from the amp and that at certain volumes, it could damage the front speakers. I'm probably massacring what they actually said (but that's how I recall the conversation).

power runs through channels in an amp, if it is not bridged, then the channel will deliver exactly what it's states it delivers... don't know about this one

From a sound perspective they said they completely understood that I had to buy Best Buy-available equipment as I get nearly a 50% discount on some of it...but they said for sound quality the JL speakers blow the Infinity's a way. They were telling me about a guy from an orchestra who had his car done there who was blow away by being able to hear certain cymbals with the JLs. The owner said that the JLs for $450 are as good as you can get or need before spending ridiculously more for competition-level speakers.

I'm guessing he's talking about the ZR650-csi components... I've never listened to them, but someone else on the forum raved about them a few months back. Honestly, if I could do it over again, I would NOT have chosen the Boston Acoustic Pro-60's, the highs are great, but the midbass is just OK. You can get only so much midbass out of neodynium magnets. The ZR650's from JL audio, while not being able to handle as much power, uses the traditional magnets, so my guess is the midbass is nicer. I haven't heard their tweeters so IDK.

Regarding the Infiniti Kappas, I would suggest the Infinity Kappa Perfect components over the Infinity Kappa coponents. THe highs on the perfects are not as harsh as those in the Kappas.

Thanks again for all your advice! Can't wait to show you pictures when it's done! And here's what might be a stupid question...if installing the equipment is so easy as you and Doc say...why do so many places butcher the work?

Its because 1. a lot of folks don't take their time during installs2. some places are all about getting folks in and out fast, and not big on quality3. some places have inexperienced or just unknowledgeable people doing installs4. a lot of them don't take the time to read up and learn about things.

Remember, this is not either my or Applebonker's real jobs, this is what we do as a hobby. If we can do this as a hobby and be pretty decent at it (true for me, understatement for Applebonker) then surely you'd think folks that do this EVERYDAY for a living would be better at it, and some of them are, like my custom install guy, but he takes his time and doesn't rush jobs.

Honestly, a lot of the mistakes recently have happened in the newer cars because they are more difficlt to do than the older cars. For example, when the info for the A/C, heater system is run through the same wires that connect to the stock stereo/nav system... its easy to tap the wrong wire and fry something, cause a short, cause a fire hazard, blow a fuse, etc.

The newer and more advanced the car, the easier it is to mess something up...

another case in point, if you don't read up and understand the BOSE system, and iots amplifier, and how it works, then the average installer my just jump in there, replace a deck, not run a sound level converter to dial down the signal leaving the aftermarket deck, and then your sound system will sound jacked up. Its all about getting a thorough understanding of a system before attempting to do anything, and that is what Applebonker and I try to do! ALso, the more you do them, over the years, the easier this stuff becomes and the more you learn. That's why I urge everyone I assist to watch their install when its being done!

OK, back to work for me!

[AppleBonker]

Dang, Doc beat me out on this one.

I'll leave my post unedited, but it appears that Doc and I are pretty much stating the same thing. Just a little tag-team effort I guess.

[T]hey said to definitely go with the 6X9's as once the system is properly tuned it will have a richer sound than just using the front interiors.

The rear fill idea is an often debated subject. In my opinion, unless you are listening to multi-channel audio, the rear fill is pointless. I can give an analogy in the home theater realm, since that seems to be more your cup of tea. This is somewhat of a stretch, but the logic sort of applies. Think of the number of channels (front left, front right, etc) of a source as the resolution. A CD or mp3 (etc.) is recorded in two channels. It does not make sense to try to reproduce this sound with more than 2 channels (the subwoofer being an exception since the frequencies it plays should not be directional). This would be similar to running a video source at something other than native resolution (it is functional, but not the best option). Or, try this. We will reason in the other direction. If you can supposedly use 4 channels to accurately reproduce a two channel source, why not use only two speakers for surround sound (five channel source). Again, this is done by certain manufacturers, but the quality suffers greatly. I have tuned my system with the rear fill in place on a two channel source. What I have found is that when the soundstage is accurate, the rear speakers are inaudible over the fronts. The only way I can hear the rears is if I turn off the front speakers entirely. Also, if you look at people who compete in car audio, they don't run rear fill for 2-channel sources. If it was honestly a better option to have four speakers running, they would certainly be doing this.

Now, I can't blame the stereo place for trying to sell you on rears. It would certainly bring in more money because they would be installing more. And, as I hopefully said before, I'm not telling you you can't buy rear speakers, I'm just saying they wont be used much in a properly tuned setup (my rear speakers have been off for the last 2 months now - haven't had a movie on in a while). Additionally, I'm not sure where they are coming up with the amp being more powerful if only two of the four channels are in use. The amp is rated a certain way for a reason. It's not going to get more powerful just because less is connected, so I wouldn't worry about this.

Note: If you really get into it and work it out, with two channels connected, the amp will require less power to obtain the same output. This will in turn require less draw from the electrical system. If the voltage on your electrical system is at a higher level, the amp will perform better. So yes, if you actually work out the physics, you can draw more power from an amp by using only half the channels. This, however, is all in theory and the real-world difference may not even be measurable.

From a sound perspective they said they completely understood that I had to buy Best Buy-available equipment as I get nearly a 50% discount on some of it...but they said for sound quality the JL speakers blow the Infinity's a way. They were telling me about a guy from an orchestra who had his car done there who was blow away by being able to hear certain cymbals with the JLs. The owner said that the JLs for $450 are as good as you can get or need before spending ridiculously more for competition-level speakers.

Personal preference. I've heard people in orchestras rave about the performance of Bose speakers. If you poll enough people, eventually someone will respond with the answer you want to hear. Are the JLs better than the Kappas? Maybe. I've never personally been a fan of JL (I think they are overpriced and overhyped - totally personal opinion). Are they $300+ dollars better (in your case)? Absolutely not. Again, probably just the stereo place trying to get you to buy speakers from them, and again I can't blame them as it is a business.

They estimated $400 total for the install including the distribution block and any cables. I know that the guy at BB can probably do it for me cheaper, but I'd rather pay $200 more and have it done right (they also mentioned some BB stories-- mostly of a BB installer making some mistakes and bringing the cars to them to fix).

Yeah, $400 doesn't sound too unreasonable for the amount of equipment you are looking at. It's obviously pricey, but the install can be time consuming (not to mention the cost of install materials). And, there are plenty of BB horror stories out there. Search consumerist.com for best buy and you'll return some hits of some of the butcher jobs people have received from BB. Just a scary thought in my opinion (not that all BB installers are bad, but these few stories have scared me away from trusting any of them).

f installing the equipment is so easy as you and Doc say...why do so many places butcher the work?

Ah, the $100 question. My best answer, is it's not their car. On top of that, the work isn't that complicated, but it certainly isn't quick (so if you get paid the same no matter how long it takes, you're more likely to cut some corners). I probably spent about 6-8 weekends working on my car (averaging about 26 hours per weekend). I'm not a pro, so the same work might have been able to be done significantly faster. What I was doing wasn't complicated, but it took a lot of planning and some trial and error (plus a fair amount of blood and sweat). For me, seeing the finished product and knowing that it was all me from idea to implementation makes me happy. But, some people are no where near as crazy as I am (and I totally respect that).

[AppleBonker]

I know I've slacked up a bit lately applebonker, but really, there doesn't seem to be a need for me to chime in on this discussion... thanks for keepin' the info flowing my man...

Well, I'm glad I'm here then so you have a chance to take a breather every now and again...

You can get only so much midbass out of neodynium magnets.

I get pretty decent midbass out of my 6.5s in the doors (they have neo magnets as well). Also, my UL12 has neo magnets, so I don't know if the magnets are to blame. My guess is it's more in the tuning of the speakers (not the tuning of your individual car, but in the manufacturing process of the speakers themselves). Some brands/models just have a richer midbass (or it could just be that this is the part of your system that is lacking the most in comparison to the rest of the components). That seems to be the beauty of car audio, there's always something to improve. My tweeters are easily the poorest quality portion of my system (again, not that they're bad, but in comparison), and I want to change them now. Only about 6 months old, but I'm already planning out their replacements (although that'll be a long way off as the funds required will be excessive).

Regarding the Infiniti Kappas, I would suggest the Infinity Kappa Perfect components over the Infinity Kappa coponents. THe highs on the perfects are not as harsh as those in the Kappas.

Absolutely true. Unfortunately, this all comes down to what BB has and the OP can get ahold of. I'm pretty sure BB doesn't carry perfects, unfortunately.

Remember, this is not either my or Applebonker's real jobs, this is what we do as a hobby. If we can do this as a hobby and be pretty decent at it (true for me, understatement for Applebonker) then surely you'd think folks that do this EVERYDAY for a living would be better at it, and some of them are, like my custom install guy, but he takes his time and doesn't rush jobs.

True, but you and I were also a lot more likely to take our time for two reasons. One, it is our car (respectively of course), so all of the investment is from our own time/coin. Two, if anything gets messed up, we've gotta fix it. With the work I did, that's why I always made sure to take my time and do it right. If I didn't know how to do something with my install, I would research it to death before starting. I don't know about you, Doc, but if someone would be willing to pay me good money to do this for a living, I'd be all about it. Unfortunately, I think my current job will pay better. Now, if I had enough money to open up my own shop...

[nycelta]

Hey Apple -- hope all is well.

I found my car (Azure Blue 2.5S w/ Blonde Cloth Interior) and already agreed to a deal...I'll be picking it up next week. For some unknown reason, there were only 3 left from Maine to Virgina...and the 2009s aren't even available w/ Blonde Interior w/ Azure Blue exterior color (I wonder why they eliminated that option?)

I did a bit more research on installers, and I found an installer in New Jersey that was recommended on a couple of different boards. They estimated $330 for the install...cheaper than the $400 estimate from the place in Westchester. They also estimated anywhere from $200-$700 to build and hide the equipment in the trunk (depending on if they just build a wooden box, or on the high end -- out of fiberglass) as I had requested. They also noted I can save a bit by paying cash.

I spoke w/ the owner and he said that 4 gauge would be sufficient for my equipment. Is this true, or should I still insist on 0 gauge?

Also -- this might be an asinine question, but if I'm looking solely for sound quality, and not deep, loud bass -- is the sub even necessary? Or could the system be built without it, and just use the PDX 4.1 to power the interior speakers? If that's a retarded question, then please let my ignorance slide...lol. Just thinking that as the interior speakers already have woofers...might be able to save something there.

Also, we had previously discussed head units quite a bit..and you had a pretty positive opinion on the Alpine 9886. If you're able to take a 2-minute glance at bestbuy.com are there any head units (even if more expensive), that would really be a worthwhile upgrade? Before I spend the money and regret anything -- wanted your opinion as to if any of the HUs sold by BB which might play DVDs, or have great touch screen functionality (and would fit the Coupe) are a real upgrade over the 9886. You can assume that I'll get about 40-50% off the retail price. I wouldn't mind spending a bit more if it will really pay off in quality and features (and BB carries it).

I also didn't mention the steering wheel functionality w/ the installer...so I'll have to raise that with him, and see what it would add to the install.

Apple -- thanks again!! and you'll be the first one to see the pictures of the final product.

[LongBeachCoupe]

Celta.. welcome.. i know tarrytown... theres some members in the nyack area who have D3's installed in their coupes if i rememmber correctly...

Anyways, i hate to tell you, but best off you dont bring your car anywhere near bestbuy...

1. if you/they screw something up, it creates a bigger issue than if it was just XYZ shop.(bc you work there)

2. a truly skilled installer wouldnt be working there. Theres a few spots in your area that do custom work... one of them actually fabricated a AC grill for a member here... (itsjustbusiness -hes a member who knows the shop).

Bottom line, if you have enough skill to be working at that best buy bay... you have enough knowledge to get thru the install with apple and the doc's help.

We should have a meet at the "clubhouse" bar one day!

[nycelta]

LongBeach,

Thanks for the welcome. While I do put some extra hours away from my "real" job at Best Buy, I don't work in the Mobile Entertainment area...I'm mostly in Home Theater.

Not sure if you read my last post, but at the end of the day I decided that since this will be a brand new car (picking up this week sometime), I'm bringing it to a car audio place in New Jersey that was recommended on a couple of different message boards. Not having anyone at BB touch it...even though 2 of the installers are supposed to be pretty capable (not going to take any chances though).

While I wait for Apple to give some of his class feedback to my last post (I think he has also become slightly invested in my project lol, just from the time he's spent on replies)...

if I choose to upgrade the HU and go w/ a DVD/Navi -- how do the following models stack up?

Kenwood KVT 512Kenwood DNX5120Kenwood DDX512

or since sound quality is my number 1 concern, am I still better off staying with the Alpine CDA 9886 (and saving some money in the process)?

Thanks -- and let me know when the next NY meet is (and how it all works since I'm still new here)...I'm interested for sure.

[AppleBonker]

if I choose to upgrade the HU and go w/ a DVD/Navi -- how do the following models stack up?

Kenwood KVT 512Kenwood DNX5120Kenwood DDX512

Doc can probably offer a slightly better opinion than me on this one. He's got a similar Kenwood to the 5120 (higher end model - the 8120) and I know he's been extremely happy with it. Search for his threads on it to view his opinions of it. The two units are similar, and I've heard a lot of people that are happy with the 5120. Personally, I would recommend that. A nice double din looks great in our cars, plus it offers so many more functions than most single din units. Most of the double dins have features you'll read about and think you wont use, but once it's in the car, you'd be amazed at how nice they are. This is the first car I've ever had with nav, and while I didn't think I'd really use it, it is amazing to have.

To the sub question, I would definitely still invest in a decent sub. Most interior speakers have a difficult time reproducing frequencies below 60 Hz. There are some VERY high end installs that I have seen that are three way active components up front that can dip down to as low as 35 Hz or so, but this still leaves out everything below that frequency. Now, this isn't to say that the stereo will sound bad without a sub. It will just sound a lot better with the sub hitting those low notes. If you're looking to save a bit of cash up front on this, you can run just interior speakers to begin with. I would have the shop run wires for a future sub install, so that this wont be difficult to add. If you run the patch cables and power/ground, adding a sub later would be only about a one hour job to install, then tuning could take a bit longer.

Also, you might be fine with 4 AWG power and ground, but I will always recommend 0/1 AWG for any reasonable system. It just allows amps to get more power cleanly, so you wont have to worry about them getting the power they need. Also, running 0/1 versus 4 is not that much more difficult. It is larger, but the same theories apply. Running something like 12 AWG would be significantly easier (but this clearly will not power any system you are looking at).

If you've found a shop that is recommended, definitely take your car there. Good audio/video shops will almost always charge more (the better you get at something, the more you're going to charge for your services), but they will do a much better job. Many custom shops have installers that have been doing this kind of work longer than I've even been alive. I'm sure they've run into every difficult situation imaginable, and have worked their way out of it.

[iammai]

I am also considering two different in dash nav systems from Best Buy.

Pioneer F900Bt

and

Kenwood DNX 5120

Both units are similar in price w/ discount. Pioneer has alot more features built in....Bluetooth, Voice command, MSN Direct. The Kenwood has Garmin based Navigation which is probably the best on the market for in dash systems. If best buy had the DNX 8120 I would get it in a heartbeat.

The pioneer has some unresolved bugs even after a recent firmware update. The Kenwood initially had several bugs, but there have been a couple updates and most issues have been resolved. The pioneer looks better on paper and has potential but is a gamble. Pioneer also has a big online community (Not owned by pioneer) to help each other out , and to apply pressure on pioneer to improve the F-series navigation units. Here are some links to help you out.

Pioneerhttp://www.avic411.com/forum/

Kenwoodhttp://forum.sounddomain.com/u...art/1

Hey Apple,

I am considering the IVA-w205 since it can be picked up for $549.99 on sonicelectronx. The only problem is everything I have read about the Blackbird has been negative. How do you rate it?

[AppleBonker]

Hey Apple,

I am considering the IVA-w205 since it can be picked up for $549.99 on sonicelectronx. The only problem is everything I have read about the Blackbird has been negative. How do you rate it?

I have been happy with mine, but there are a couple of drawbacks. I think the Kenwood's do have better nav, but I find the Alpine acceptable. The ability to undock the Blackbird and take it in a rental as a portable unit is a nice feature (which I have use for). The only other major problem with the Alpine is that it only has 2V preamp outputs. I'm running mine through their audio processor which bumps it up to 4V, so it's not a problem for me. If I were only running my amps off the head unit, it would probably be a toss up for me between the Alpine and the Kenwood. If I were you, I'd try to play with both and see which you like better. I don't know that I can say one is significantly better than the other (if the processor is not in the equation). With the processor, I love mine and there wasn't a whole lot of competition when it came to my selection.

[nycelta]

Apple,

Well, I finally picked up the damned car! I immediately took it to the installer on Friday, and they ended up needing it overnight...so I picked it up Saturday night.

Here's the breakdown on the pricing:

Alpine 10" Type R Subwoofer $94.50Alpine CDA 9886 Head Unit $195.30Alpine PDX 1.6 Amp $262.50Alpine PDX 4.1 Amp $262.50Alpine 6 1/2" Component Type-R SPR 17S $131.25Alpine 6x9" SPS 609 Rear Fill $63.50Rockford Fosgate Dual Twist FRIT-16 $14.23 (2 pair)Rockford Fosgate Speaker Wire 16A $4.99ROckford Fosgate 4AWG Dual AM $44.36(kit included everything reg. $124.99)

plus approx. 8% tax = $1,174.34

Now the expensive part was the install (yes, I know I could've done it myself...maybe with years of training

They charged me $963 total which included the Sirius Receiver, the PAC interface, the install, and the building of the wooden box.

so my grand total was $2,137. Wow that's a bigger number than I expected. Hope it's all worth it...

I think the receiver and PAC interface come out to $200+, so the install was really in the $700 range (including tax).

I only have 3 small problems...and let me know how best to address with them -- 1) PAC interface works accept for the inability to change tracks using the CD player. Does that mean something was hooked up incorrectly? If so, how to fix, so that I can let them know.

2) Airbag light is on (heard somewhere on this forum that this can be a problem) -- do I have to take it back to the dealer, or can the audio place fix this?

3) Get some radio interference on channels that never had interference on my stock radio(s).

I think that they will fix if there are solutions...just need to tell them how. They also said the speakers take about 2 weeks to break in, so they would tune again in 2 weeks if I bring it back. They said that it can go louder, but it's already loud as hell!

I'll post pictures later tonight when I figure out how to copy and paste the image file (or if someone can explain, I'd appreciate it).

[AppleBonker]

They charged me $963 total which included the Sirius Receiver, the PAC interface, the install, and the building of the wooden box.

so my grand total was $2,137. Wow that's a bigger number than I expected. Hope it's all worth it...

I think the receiver and PAC interface come out to $200+, so the install was really in the $700 range (including tax).

I only have 3 small problems...and let me know how best to address with them -- 1) PAC interface works accept for the inability to change tracks using the CD player. Does that mean something was hooked up incorrectly? If so, how to fix, so that I can let them know.

2) Airbag light is on (heard somewhere on this forum that this can be a problem) -- do I have to take it back to the dealer, or can the audio place fix this?

3) Get some radio interference on channels that never had interference on my stock radio(s).

I think that they will fix if there are solutions...just need to tell them how. They also said the speakers take about 2 weeks to break in, so they would tune again in 2 weeks if I bring it back. They said that it can go louder, but it's already loud as hell!

I'll post pictures later tonight when I figure out how to copy and paste the image file (or if someone can explain, I'd appreciate it).

Well, looks like you got a decent amount of equipment at a reasonable price. The install really sounds about right. This car is not the easiest to install in, so it takes some time. Most places will charge a decent amount for programming of the PAC steering wheel jack, and the building of a custom box is ALWAYS pricey (on my last car I had two custom fiberglass enclosures made for the tweeters in the sails - right on the inside of the side mirrors - and I paid a bit over $200 for the materials and build). So while it was expensive, your car doesn't seem to be butchered like it might have been at a less reputable shop. In my mind, if you're going to pay someone to do it, it's worth it to pay a bit more to make sure quality work is done.

On to the questions:

1 - The PAC adapter has a number of functions that can be programmed (for an Alpine unit it looks like 11 in all). We obviously don't have 11 buttons on the wheel to program all of these. The options you are interested in are preset up/down and track up/down. Since we only have one button for these functions, you can only get one of the two (either preset or track). Since I rarely use my radio, I programmed for the track up/down (I use my iPod considerably more often). If you go back and ask them to program for the track functions they should be able to do this, but you'll lose the preset tuning (I'm not sure if you can program the head unit to accept a track up button press to change presets - I believe this was discussed about the Kenwoods and it was found to be possible).

2 - This happens to most people. Don't take it back to the shop, fix it yourself. It's on the forums in multiple places, but Doc wrote up the instructions here. I ran into the same problem when I first did my install. Fixed it myself no problems.

3 - Do the stations come in relatively clear? Or are they all static? If they're all static, they probably didn't connect the power antenna lead. If you're getting stations, but they occasionally get static, it might just be that the Alpine head unit is slightly less sensitive to the antenna. How big of a problem is this?

Also, speakers do take a bit to break in to get to their final sound. I would recommend taking it back to them to tune it once everything is broken in. Should sound even better at that point. I hope you're happy with the stereo, and we'd love to see pics.

If you want to post pics, you'll need to upload them to the internet and then post the image links to them. I use photobucket (as do many members). Go to that site and get an account (it's free) and upload you pictures there. Then copy and paste the links. They will look somewhat like this:

[ IMG ] url [ /IMG ] - without the spaces. Now it's time to let the bank account rest for a bit.

[nycelta]

Hey Apple,

Well I just priced it out on Crutchfield (for reference only -- I know that there are cheaper sites)...and the total for all of the equipment I purchased came to $2,045 without adding any cables or speaker wire and before tax. So I guess paying $2100 for all of the equipment installed plus a box is a pretty good deal. Do you think that I paid a reasonable price? And how about the system itself? Is it a good setup? (for someone not installing equipment on the level of you and Doc obviously). I went with pretty much all of your recommendations except for the speakers...I kept hearing that the Infinity's were too harsh on the highs...so decided against them for that reason. And yes the wallet definitely needs a looong rest!

I'm going to do some more research on the PAC interface on the Alpine site when I get a chance to see if what you suggested is possible (to get both the presets and track up/down to work. If not, I just want the track up/down to work).

As for breaking them in, the guy who did the install asked me to bring it back to him specifically to adjust the tuning in about 2 weeks. What shocked me is that he said the system will be able to go louder still. If I put it past 23 on the volume now, I'm blowing out my eardrums -- and it still sounds clear. Too bad, I didn't have this car and system when I was 18



Here are some pics (sorry they're not great, took them w/ my Iphone outside of a Car Wash):

What are your thoughts on the grill for the sub? (They suggested putting it on in case things in the trunk get thrown up against the sub and damage the voice coil -- is that the right term, lol?)

[shortys408]

looks good, i would also recommend getting some kind of alarm system. I know you can get the viper 5900 from bb for under 200 with your employee discount.