A New America

[HashiriyaS14]

How is 52% a landslide?

It's an Electoral Vote landslide.

349 to 163? (not counting NC and MO, which have yet to report)

[Jesda]

The GOP constantly invokes Abraham Lincoln, but if Lincoln were running today he would almost certainly be a Clintonian Democrat (Economic Liberalism in the Adam Smith vein, passion for civil liberty, generally secular, etc).

Abe Lincoln was a statist war monger who likely would have increased funding to Guantanamo Bay. I cringe when the GOP brings him up like some kind of hero. Passion for civil liberty my butt.

[szh]

Abe Lincoln was a statist war monger who likely would have increased funding to Guantanamo Bay. I cringe when the GOP brings him up like some kind of hero. Passion for civil liberty my butt.

Hmmm ... now this I disagree with - regardless of any GOP position. Please read the Shelby Foote three volume series on the Civil War to gain insight. It is an absolutely enlightening work of history ... among my favorite books ... and I have read them many, many times.

These books go into great detail on the personality of the people of those crazy times in our history, and clearly show that Abraham Lincoln was not a war monger in the sense you are posting. He was dragged into a situation that he did not want.

Z

[Jesda]

Chris, as much as you very much desire an end to what you call the moral majority, it just didnt happen, because it never mattered to begin with.

Abortion is a fringe issue because it affects very few Americans and has no effect on the daily lives of most. The same will soon be revealed of gay marriage. Only right wing bible thumpers and gay-agenda leftists will be left pushing the issue. People tire of this nonsense and when it comes time to vote, they just dont care.

Maybe NARAL and the evangelicals can be locked in a cage, armed with machetes to finish each other off. Winner gets to visit my woodchipper.

"Its the economy, stupid."

Ask your dad how the Viet Nam issue took down a previous republican government.It began slowly on college campuses and after the Kent State shootings really got rolling. Ask him if he remembers Chicago in 1968.Abbie Hoffman is looking down today and smiling.

telcoman

Can we ban telcoman and wingfeather already? These guys contribute nothing useful and have no desire to listen and discuss.

[BusyBadger]

but if Lincoln were running today he would almost certainly be a Clintonian Democrat

Is that because of his crazy wife, the allegations of homosexuality, spending money without congressional approval or his expressed opinion being dictated by the crowd to whom he was speaking?

[AZhitman]

you're exaggerating what was actually confirmed by this election.

I was about to post a similar statement.

I don't think ANY of those points are accurate. Not that it means anything now, but the results of the election do not equate themselves with the points Hashy made.

Also, on the topic of Lincoln... keep in mind he stumped on a pro-slavery position.

Just goes to show you, it's ok for a politician to change positions once they're elected.

[HashiriyaS14]

Chris, as much as you very much desire an end to what you call the moral majority, it just didnt happen, because it never mattered to begin with.

Abortion is a fringe issue because it affects very few Americans and has no effect on the daily lives of most. The same will soon be revealed of gay marriage. Only right wing bible thumpers and gay-agenda leftists will be left pushing the issue. People tire of this nonsense and when it comes time to vote, they just dont care.

Maybe NARAL and the evangelicals can be locked in a cage, armed with machetes to finish each other off. Winner gets to visit my woodchipper.

"Its the economy, stupid."

I understand that you feel that these are not important issues, and compared to fiscal issues and matters of national defense, I enthusiastically agree with you.

The problem for the GOP is that they don't appear to see things this way.

If they did, they would have picked a VP with a demonstrable passion for cutting spending, or at least someone with substantial financial experience. Instead, they picked someone with almost no economic experience but very conservative social views.

They did this because they know this is what their base desires. They did this because, to the GOP base, on average, social issues ARE now more important than fiscal issues. This is a huge problem for the party, and it's a problem created by the GOP voters. The party leadership is just giving people what they appear to want.

I agree that these are "fringe issues", but the fact that the GOP continually passes up competent socially moderate candidates for economically inept socially conservative candidates demonstrates that the GOP has, perhaps, become a "fringe" party.

This is bad for them, they need to cut it out. They need to refocus on cutting spending and making Americans safer.

They prioritized social issues over the stuff that matters in this most recent election and lost because of it. They should probably stop doing that.

[Jesda]

If they did, they would have picked a VP with a demonstrable passion for cutting spending, or at least someone with substantial financial experience. Instead, they picked someone with almost no economic experience but very conservative social views.

Governor Palin had a pretty clear history of being a pro-gun, pro-family, fiscal conservative. Her economic record was emphasized by party leadership and the McCain campaign while DEMOCRATS kept railing on about her views on evolution, gay marriage, sex education, and other nonsensical BS. This characterization by the media and the left -may- have increased her appeal with the base, causing a reverse effect. But they also achieved their goal of limiting her mainstream appeal by mischaracterizing her as a wacky bible thumper.

McCain would have lost by 20+ million votes without her, but when she hit the national stage she tried to sell economic and energy policy. Before she could say a word it was all about her pregnant daughter.

[HashiriyaS14]

UPDATE:

AP just called North Carolina for Obama, adding that to the long list of 2004 Red States that he won this year.

Now only Missouri remains undecided.

[smockers83]

I understand that the parties have essentially switched sides over time. However, one of us is confused and I'm pretty sure its him, unless I'm missing something. The Vietnam issue took down the Democratic government, not the Republican government, which was the reason for my post.