A Little SAFC Tunning Help

[side waz]

Hey everyone whats up. I hope all of you are having a great holiday so far.

Well down to business. I just got my SAFC today and I want to install it along with my rising rate FPR and SR 370cc injectors. This is all going towards my KA-T project that will be all finished in the new year.

So what I was wondering is can any of you give me hand with tuning for my KADE with the other thiings I mentioned above? I am not doing this to gain any real hp or torque but mainly for learning purposes. I understand that those of you here using it have it set for turbo purposes, so my NA is completely different but, any help you can give would be greatly appreciated.

Once my full turbo set is installed I will be tunning it on the dyno and rather then standing there like an idiot, I'd like to know and understand what the guy is doing with regards to the SAFC.

Well that's it. I hope you guys can lend me a hand.

Take care and have a good one.

Easy

[skatanic28]

are you sure you want to run an fmu and 370's?

to start out i just set both maps (HI and LO throttle) to -25 for the correction. then made a few adjustments according to a few wideband runs. without a wideband i wouldnt really try to make too many changes.

[Tictakman]

from what ive read and what im running you should set the settings to -27 across the board. im running rich at this setting so if it is only at -25 then you would be even more rich.

Zak

[Structure240sx]

it is very difficult to run off of someone else's settings. the best way is to get a wideband or get on a dyno.

with the FMU and injectors your setting will be very different in boost than other people.

the main part when setting the safc you need to know is for the air sensor. go through the menu to set for the air sensor, select hotwire, select 5in 5out.

also in the settings set it to 4 cylinders with the arrow pointing up to the right

you will also have to set the dec. air settings.

when the car is completely cool start it up. have the safc mointoring throttle %, air flow, and rpms. have the engine at 1000rpms and write down the air flow. then have the engine at 2000rpms and write down the throttle % and air flow.

now go to the dec. air settings. the THR setting is the throttle % you documented at 2000rpms. the NE1 setting is the air flow you had at 1000rpms. the NE2 setting is the air flow you had at 2000rpms. this will get you very close to the settings you need. may not be perfect but very close. this will allow you to run an atmospheric bov without stumbling between gears

[side waz]

Hey guys thanks for this.

Just a couple of things.

Is what your telling me to do good for my (current) NA motor?

I don't want to do anything drastic by installing my SAFC now before I even have my turbo in. I just want to learn how to set the it and I don't have a wideband, er go, why I'll be tunning on the dyno when I install my turbo. Unless someone wants to lend me there's and ship it to me here in Canada, LOL!

Now this unit is used so do I have to clear all the previous settings before I start inputting new ones? I am presuming yes. Also according to the Apexi USA update I am supposed to use wiring diagram N-1. My car was made in Canada so is it the same or do I follow the World Diagram N3-b?

Structure240sx, your directions for me are great. Would I be asking to much of you to maybe give me a step by step run down of setting everything on the unit? From clearing the unit's old settings to inputting what, you think, would work for me based on installing the SAFC, 370cc injectors and my FPR. I know that's a lot to ask and I'll understand if you don't want to.

Well let me know guys, and Structure, and again thank you so very much for all of the help.

Take care.

Easy

[Structure240sx]

find the menu option INITIALIZE (believe this is in the ETC. menu) this will restart the safc clearing out all the old settings.

the safc wont do too much for you being NA maybe pick up a horsepower or two possibly.

ok put a list together and post it later tonight

[jmauld]

the safc wont do too much for you being NA maybe pick up a horsepower or two possibly.

Just curious, have you tuned a NA on a dyno with one? I would expect to see a little better gain then that, unless the stock ecu is tuned that well from the factory?

[side waz]

find the menu option INITIALIZE (believe this is in the ETC. menu) this will restart the safc clearing out all the old settings.

the safc wont do too much for you being NA maybe pick up a horsepower or two possibly.

ok put a list together and post it later tonight

Thanks a lot man.

I hope Im not putting you through to much trouble.

Any luck finding out if I use the same wiring diagram as you did?

I appreciate everything and look forward to seeing this. Hopefully it's SAFC Tunning For Dummies. LOL

Easy

[Tictakman]

structure, man ive tried your settings that you posted above and i cant seem to get it to idle. if i put the in at 1 and the out at 5 then it does run but if its 5 and 5 then it will stall out. i have it set to hot wire, 4 cylinder, arrow to the top right. the only thing i havent done is change the decel air to what you said. im gonna try to record my air fuel on my wideband and post it up here. im lost here bc i lost my safc tuning book, also cant seem to get the idle af to 15, its always up at 19-24??im running rich as hell, too my plugs out and there is carbon covering every plug.

Zak

[Def]

All Apex'i manuals in PDF form.

http://www.apexi-usa.com/documentation.asp

[Tictakman]

good call, thanks.

Zak

[Structure240sx]

hey havent worte down my settings yet but...

if you can get the car to run good on different settings go with it. everyone told me that i had to run 2in 5 out for my z32 maf to work, but for me i need to run 1 or 2in 6 out. thats why it is very difficult to go by others settings.

stay tunned for my current settings for:z32maf550cc injectorsstock ecu

[Structure240sx]

ok here go my settings:

ETC Menu:Sensor type: Hot-wire: 1in 6out: 2in ADDoutCar Select: 4 cyl thr -> (arrow pointing up)Initialize (this is the menu you use to reset the safc)

Setting Menu:Low Throttle: 1k -50%2-8k -40%

Hi throttle (low boost 15psi):1-3k 0%4k -24%5k -30%6-8k -31%

High Throttle (high boost 19psi)1-3k 0%4k -33%5k -41%6-8k -32%

THR Point:20% low 40% high

Dec. Air:Thr 2.0%Ne1 .7%Ne2 2.0%

[side waz]

Hey thanks Structure.

So based on your above settings, what do you think would work for me on my NA? Should the numbers be higher or lower for each?

Now in the ECT menu I guess I go to the Initialize option first to reset it before I try imputting anything?

Then set the Sensor and Car Type right?

From that point what numbers should I be imputing from In/Out to Dec Air?

Oh I am also using the stock ka MAF.

I know it's pretty much impossible to tell me exactly but I'll be happy with your best guess. At least I'll have a rough point to start from.

What can I say, Im a noob with this unit. LOL!

Thanks brother.

Easy

[Tictakman]

dude he has all the in and out above, look closely. for the high and low settings, those will be different. he is running 50 lb injectors so he has to take fuel out hence the neg numbers. myself, i have 370 cc injectors and am running -27 across the board. if you have stock injectors u should be at 0 i believe. if you want to gain a few horses then u will want to lean it out a little bit which means going into the positive side.

structure, thanks for the settings, my idle is richer so thats better, i have the in set at 3 and out at 6. everything else is the same as you except the high and low numbers. i wont be able to tune for a few weeks bc i noticed my bd mani has a crack in the weld to the wastegate.

Zak

[side waz]

Well thats what I figured but thing is, I don't even know what number's to start with at the various RPM level's.

That's why I was asking Structure for "Best Guess" numbers to start with,

[Tictakman]

well since you dont have any larger injectors id go with 0 because ur not taking out and fuel or adding fuel. thats what id do but wait for structure. he knows what he is doing...

Zak

[side waz]

I am going to be using bigger injector's. Im installing the SAFC with, SR 370cc Injector's with a Rising Rate FPR.

I'd agree with waiting for Structure to get back to me. He really seems to know his sh_t!

Thanks though Zak for your imput.

Take care.

Easy

[sil80drifter]

I am frikkin stumped. When I got my 460cc injectors and like an idiot decided that since they are twice as big, reducing every point on the LT map by 40% (-40%) on the low throttle map was a good idea, my car pinged for a week between 1500 and 3500 rpm. it did so until I mademy LT map look like this:

RPM %800 -121000 -101500 -102000 -122400 -132800 -143000 -183200 -20......

6500 -40

Then it ran a little rich, but this was in the summer, and I didn't wideband tune it so i went safe. I have no clue why but any leaner than this and it would ping in that RPM range, especially when there was low throttle (under 40%, I had LT be 40% and HT be 80%) and high load (me going up hill or slowly accelerating).

This was when I was NA, so it never occurred to me that I could be pinging with my new 460cc injectors, so I blamed the timing chain, and after doing the TC replacement (oh you know I loved it) and still having the knocking type noise occur, I decided to up the fuel. Whaddaya know, it worked like magic. Should have thought about it earlier when the car would ping only until I went WOT; the HT map was very rich so it would of course stop.

Always be safe, and always go to the dyno or tune as safe as you can by ear.

sil80

[Structure240sx]

hey sorry for the slow replies. im on vacation in aruba with my friends family. his dad has a computer here i have been tryin to stay tuned

using the stock maf have the in/out settings set to 5in/5out

you may be able to have the dec. air settings not set for NA. bring the Thr settings all the way down to ***. if the car doesnt run right then i think for the stock maf i was aroud 1.0/1.0/1.0 in dec. air.

[Structure240sx]

btw with 370's your throttle maps wont be pulling out as much fuel as me. also as you start to up the boost on the same injectors you usually have to pull out more fuel as you can see in my high boost map. this is because the stock FPR is 1:1 and increases fuel pressure with more boost.

[pr240sx]

I tried the 5 in 5 out and my car had a slight hesitation at 3000 rpms (full stock s13, stock MAF and injectors)Right now 6 in 6 out and works like a champ.Will me installing my 370 soon but I wanted to have teh SAFC installed first so I can do this in several stages.anyway, what does in and out numbers mean?

[side waz]

I tried the 5 in 5 out and my car had a slight hesitation at 3000 rpms (full stock s13, stock MAF and injectors)Right now 6 in 6 out and works like a champ.Will me installing my 370 soon but I wanted to have teh SAFC installed first so I can do this in several stages.anyway, what does in and out numbers mean?

So your running NA right now?

If so maybe we could try tunning this together .

Let me know man either here or my email is [email protected]

Thanks and I hope to hear from you.

Easy

[pr240sx]

ok I laready tried the following settings (in and out the same)With engine at normal temp (175~187) my S 13 with stock MAF and stock injectors and stock everything.1 just like stock, i did notice some lack of toruqe in highway passing. Normal idle2 jumpy idling, severe hesitation on acceleration3 wont idle at all4 idle fines, will smell fuel everywhere. Didnt do any highway testing5 idles fine. Hesitation on acceleration at 3000 rpms exactly. 6 idles superb, more torque on highway passing and downshifting. As of now the best setting

This is without any correction whatsoever, no decel settings on the 1on 1 on the next screen after the hotwire selection 4 cyl arrow pointing upMy wiringtaking RPM from the ECU to gauge wire (same wire, just splits at the ecu connectorMAF wires cutted and connected them to the SAFCbrown and black wires Ok i have a little confusion here. Looking at the n3B diagram, the ground wire its actually the water temp ground wire!!dunno if it have any change but my brown wire is connected to it and the black to a car ground

Again, does anybody knows what those numbers exactly mean? could be 1 volt in, 1 volt out or 1% in and 1% out but looking at my MDM-100 (that reads from the ECU directly) I didnt notice any changes in af1.any help on this will make 2 240sx SAFC owners very happy

[skatanic28]

dunno if it have any change but my brown wire is connected to it and the black to a car ground

Again, does anybody knows what those numbers exactly mean? could be 1 volt in, 1 volt out or 1% in and 1% out but looking at my MDM-100 (that reads from the ECU directly) I didnt notice any changes in af1.any help on this will make 2 240sx SAFC owners very happy

make sure you do the grounds right. they cannot go to the chassis ground, as stated in the manual. the various hotwire numbers represent the different voltage curves corresponding to the various mafs available. (i use 5 on my s14)the calculation menu is for other cars like the skyline that has 2 mafs, you can switch to one mafs and then the safc will divide the signal for the stock ecu. we just leave it at 1 and 1.

[pr240sx]

So that could be the problem at 3000 rpms?the thing is that I dont really know what is the voltage differences between the S13 and S14.As for the grounds, I checked the FSM diagram and there is 4 grounds that goes to the body/chassis and several other for sensors. Looking at the diagram, those sensor grounds are suplied directly from the ECU (like MAF, ECU water temp sensor, etcSo please CHECK your FSM BEFORE installing the SAFC or anything based on an aftermarket diagrams.I spent 3 very unconfortable hours documenting and checking and double checking the colors and wires. The last connection was the MAF itself. I am very picky when cutting stock wiring so I cutted like 5~6 inches away from the ECU.Any recommendations are gladly accepted

[skatanic28]

honestly i didnt think it was difficult at all. i just compared the apexi diagram to the fsm tables and everything went very smoothly.

anyways, follow the exact grounding procedure according to the wiring manual, tapping them both onto the same wire, with the brown wire closest to the ecu and at least a cm between them.

[pr240sx]

Is not a hard job or difficult at all. But is a unconfortable position job and quite hard sorting the ECU dirty and messy wires.i think that in our 240sx, no jobs is too hard, just time consuming, try to work on a z32 engine or even a Altima and not to mention newers Camaros and Trans-Ams!! those engine bays arethose engine bays are sickfully small and difficult to work!!

[300max]

That is why I traded my Z32 for a 95 240sx. It seemed like everything I wanted to do, required pulling the engine.