A little debunking from the Obamacare opposition

[AZhitman]

http://www.usatoday.com/news/opinion/fo ... 50433598/1

Interesting op-ed piece. Should come as no surprise that the ones generating the loudest faux outrage are the same people acting like the TP is the Klan revisited and the Right is a mob of heartless spendthrifts. Yay media.

p.s. Blitzer is a tool.

[IBCoupe]

After having seen the clip in question, I don't believe it had anything to do with Obamacare.

The question was, essentially: "If a person chooses not to buy health insurance, but then later needs healthcare, who pays for that?"

Ron Paul's response was, essentially: "He wants the government to pay for it."

Wolf Blitzer then asked: "But who should pay for it?"

Ron Paul said, and I'm paraphrasing: "Part of freedom is the ability to take risks and to take responsibility for your decisions."

Audience cheers.

Wolf Blitzer then asks, "So you're saying society should just let him die?"

A couple of "Yeahs" yell out from the audience, then some clapping and laughter.

And then Paul's response is, "Churches took care of them; we never turned anyone away from the hospital."




Aaanyways. Know how I know Katrina Trinko's a complete douchette? Because she wrote, "As no fan of ObamaCare, I apparently want to see the streets littered with the dead bodies of the uninsured." There's no reason to implicate anyone's position on the PPACA; the issue isn't whether folks should be mandated to buy insurance, it's whether hospitals should have the right to turn away the uninsured. That's what was cheered.

[Edited for clarity]

[mattblancarte]

Ugh... so... much... spin...

[AZhitman]

Point totally missed.

I mentioned something at work similar to Paul's comment, and INSTANTLY some assbag in IT accused me of "wanting old people to die".

There's far more of them than there are Trinkos.

[mattblancarte]

The assbag in IT sounds like a total assbag. No one in their right mind thinks that persons who oppose Obamacare want old people to die.

[IBCoupe]

No. But you could be forgiven for thinking that about the people who want to get rid of or privatize Medicare. I'm looking at you, Paul Ryan.

[mattblancarte]

I agree. Society has an obligation to take care of the elderly.

[IBCoupe]

I agree. Society has an obligation to take care of the elderly.

Not just that, but the reason that we instituted Medicare was because the private market simply wasn't servicing the elderly. They're not profitable - they incur too many costs, aren't usually able to work, and even if they were, they wouldn't be around long enough to pay enough.

[stebo0728]

I agree. Society has an obligation to take care of the elderly.

Society <> Government

[IBCoupe]

I agree. Society has an obligation to take care of the elderly.

Society <> Government

Government = The most efficient way to see it done.

[stebo0728]

Government = The most efficient way to see it done.

Assuming we provision it to do so. I dont agree with such provisioning, and I dont believe it was ever designed to be provisioned as such. I might even disagree with your "most efficient" assessment above. I mean, did you actually use the words government and efficient in the same sentence, with no negative qualifiers?

[AZhitman]

^ THAT (regardless of whether I agree with teh Isaac or not)

[IBCoupe]

Government = The most efficient way to see it done.

Assuming we provision it to do so. I dont agree with such provisioning, and I dont believe it was ever designed to be provisioned as such. I might even disagree with your "most efficient" assessment above. I mean, did you actually use the words government and efficient in the same sentence, with no negative qualifiers?

Matt just provisioned it to do so. Do you disagree with the notion that "society has a duty to care for the elderly?" If you don't, what's the better, more efficient option for caring for their physical ailments than Medicare? Charity?

Efficiency is more than just average cost to achieve individual goal. You might find an efficient means of paying for a single elderly person's healthcare, but you won't find one that's more efficient than government at what has been defined as the goal, here: society caring for its elderly.

[mattblancarte]

Charity?

Nope, I wouldn't trust that to cover 99%+ of our elderly.

Efficiency is more than just average cost to achieve individual goal. You might find an efficient means of paying for a single elderly person's healthcare, but you won't find one that's more efficient than government at what has been defined as the goal, here: society caring for its elderly.

I agree, there are more metrics at play here than money (as you've alluded to). Consider the fact that before medicare, only 51% of elderly folks over 65 had health coverage. 51%

Now, we have complete coverage for all individuals over 65 years of age. Not only that, those under the age of 65 years that meet special criteria can also receive coverage.

I'd say in terms of taking care of the elderly, Medicare does pretty darn well. It may not be the most efficient mechanism in financial terms, but it achieves its purpose.

Over-spending on Medicare doesn't exactly bother me. It's for a very, very good cause.

P.S. Greg, the bottom flash bar is kinda tweaking out on me. I don't mind that it's there, but it's hijacking browser events and making the text editor a bit of a pain. Is this happening to anyone else?

[IBCoupe]

Consider the fact that before medicare, only 51% of elderly folks over 65 had health coverage. 51%

I'm amazed it was actually that high.

P.S. Greg, the bottom flash bar is kinda tweaking out on me. I don't mind that it's there, but it's hijacking browser events and making the text editor a bit of a pain. Is this happening to anyone else?

What bottom flash bar?

[mattblancarte]

I'm amazed it was actually that high.

Yeah, it's pretty interesting.

At the time, 70% of those who qualified were above the national poverty line. You could say that Medicare helped take care of the 30% which were poor, and 20% that were lower middle class.

The fact that they, as a society, got together and decided to give medical care to the unfortunate half... It's pretty heartwarming. Makes me proud to be an American.

What bottom flash bar?

http://i.imgur.com/KiI2x.png

Am I the only one who can see this thing? I'm using FireFox 6.0.2

[IBCoupe]

I don't see it. I'm using Firefox... 3.6.whatever'slatest.