A different kind of online bullying... Thoughts?

[AZhitman]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/28/busin ... orker.html

Long article, but well-worth the read. I'm eager to hear everyone else's thoughts on this.

[downedzephyr]

This has always been a major issue with the search engines... much like the Dale L. Davis situation, the search engines can't differentiate from positive and negative quite yet. I did some research on Bing and the tech they use for a class project, and I know they're working on that problem by modifying their Natural Language search tech to help differentiate. I don't necessarily agree with his methods of running his store, but he is taking advantage of a natural exploit in the way search engines are designed now.

and i know, sorry about the edit.

[HashiriyaS14]

This is actually sort of fascinating.

I mean, he's a terrible person, but I admire any sort of system-gaming. If it's really working for him and it's not just talk, it's definitely a loop that needs to be closed, lol.

[OriginalWheelman]

This is exactly why everyone should do a Google search for the specific retailer before they buy anything from them. Even the article says, if you search his website directly, the search is flooded with negative feedback and complaints. Consumers who are used to online commerce would easily avoid this guy, but the casual online buyer could easily fall into his trap. While I don't agree with his method, he does make a good point when he says "this is how people talk in real life in New York" or something to that effect. The sad part is it's true. Most people aren't used to that in a business situation but it's the sad truth that New yorkers speak to each other that way every day.

[Encryptshun]

I got as far as:

“It’s fair to say,” Mr. Sullivan concludes, “that this is a failure on Google’s part.”

and had to stop reading and get my blood pressure back to normal. This is utterly insane.

Why in the ever-loving HELL is it Google's responsibility to provide a consumer satisfaction dashboard for every online retailer? They aren't Consumer-goddamned-Reports. They aren't Angie's List.

THEY. ARE. A. SEARCH. ENGINE.

Granted, they offer a ton of value-add information services in order to make them more competitive as an advertising outlet, but jeebus-jumped-up-christ-on-a-pogo-stick why in the F*CK is it their job to make sure morons don't buy from unreputable online retailers?

Here's clue one for the miserable idiotic addlebrained mouthbreathers who just spend their money with any website that processes credit card transactions: DON'T DO IT. If you are lack the chromosomal development needed to do your homework on the legitimacy of a business before you lay out hundreds of dollars -- GO SPEND YOUR MONEY AT WAL-MART.


Do I agree with perpitrating online fraud? No, of course not. The douchenozzle who sold her fake designer glasses should be prosecuted for selling counterfeit merchandise (easily proven).

BUT IT IS NOT THE JOB OF GOOGLE TO THINK FOR YOU.

/rant

/back to reading the article

[OriginalWheelman]

...
THEY. ARE. A. SEARCH. ENGINE.
...
IT IS NOT THE JOB OF GOOGLE TO THINK FOR YOU.

I think this sums it up perfectly. Those scammed look for someone to blame but all the people mentioned in the article purchased after there were already a large number of complaints on the web. Each of them could have avoided their problem by typing "business name" into Google. I won't repeat it here because I don't want to add hits to his website from Nico.

[AZhitman]

rant

EXACTLY.

Incidentally, those are probably the same useless people who believe it is the government's job to make sure they don't starve to death... but i digress.

Carry on.

[AZhitman]

This is actually sort of fascinating.

I mean, he's a terrible person, but I admire any sort of system-gaming.

Agreed... It's like this disgusting combination of repulsion and admiration blended together.

FWIW, I think he's ignorantly over-praising the effects of negative press on his SERPs, and it's clear he only has a very primitive understanding of SEO concepts.

Still, like you said, fascinating.

[Encryptshun]

Incidentally, those are probably the same useless people who believe it is the government's job to make sure they don't starve to death...

Wingfeather called. He demands a quarter for blatant use of his style.

but i digress.

Yes, that you did.

Carry on.

Carrying on...

[Dattebayo]

I hate Russians. This really reminds me of that.

[wingFeather]

Wingfeather called. He demands a quarter for blatant use of his style.

Excessive word counts may get you a higher SAT score, or score with an English major... but the rest of the world appreciates clear, concise sentences.

[frapjap]

This is absurd. Playing the system is one thing, but stepping up and taking it to this degree is infuriating. Granted, the consumer is mainly to blame for messing up to purchase from him and they're quite naive to think that they are getting an awesome deal on an expensive good. Regardless, the customer may be gulliable, but the main problem lies within the business practices of this Neanderthal. You get caught selling counterfeit product, return the purchase. Simple. However, only 1/10 consumers who buy from him will even notice in the first place. Pathetically enough, he knows he (not using the name) can get away with ripping others off and running a shady business- so he does. Taking advantage of others is one thing, but when you're caught what makes that okay to treat them the way you do?
+1 for banking on stupidity, -1,847 for not manning up when you're caught and wrong.

Someone should place an order for a large amount of glasses in the $15k+ range, then file suit and complaint when they're discovered to be counterfeit. That jack off would find himself in the middle of some thick s*** quite quickly. At some point this guy is going to rip off the wrong person (read: someone just like him) and he'll end up with broken appendages, one less eye, and a jaw thats wired shut.

[Alfador]

What I don't ge tis why people think its the credit card companies' job to shut this guy down. If I ever met this guy I'd be hard pressed not to beat the living daylights out of him but it's not mastercard or visa's job to police retailers. If they get complaints, they fix them, but that's it. They yank support when the amount of complaints cease being trivial FOR THEM and begin to impact their operations, not because consumers can't solve their own problems. What happened with that lady and Citibank is different, since they screwed up her claim because someone posed as her, but blaming the card companies because they didn't try to shut him down is asinine.

[AZhitman]

Someone should place an order for a large amount of glasses in the $15k+ range, then file suit and complaint when they're discovered to be counterfeit. That jack off would find himself in the middle of some thick s*** quite quickly. At some point this guy is going to rip off the wrong person (read: someone just like him) and he'll end up with broken appendages, one less eye, and a jaw thats wired shut.

^ THIS x 100.

I was waiting for someone to "go there".

Here's my take on it, and a proposed "counter" to his actions... (a tactic I've been considering using for some of our old deadbeat advertisers, in fact...)

Harness the power of numbers to shift the profitability balance. Here's what I mean: You coordinate, say, 100 people. Each one calls in and ties up the customer service agents, placing an order. Now, there's no *real* order going on... each caller uses a fake name, a fake CC # and a fake address. You're not defrauding anyone, since there's no chance of the order actually going through - What you're doing is tying up their customer service agents with unprofitable activity. When 10 days go by with LOTS of phone calls and a LOW percentage of orders, the retailer starts feeling the heat. Every time the phone rings, he's got to wonder if it's a REAL customer or just more shenanigans. We've got 160,000 members - we can drag that s*** out for MONTHS... and there's not a damn thing the retailer can do about it.

A good business rule: BE NICE (...because there's always some jackass like me out there who's willing to pick a fight on behalf of the little people.)

[nissangirl74]

People need to realize that THEY are responsible for THEIR actions!!!

It's not Google's place to police people and it's not a feasible task, even if it was. As far as the credit card company is concerned, they are out to protect themselves, not their cardholders. The man is a d!ck, no doubt about it. However, he did find a way to build an extremely profitable mousetrap. If people choose not to do their research, that's not his fault. It's theirs.

However, I would like to participate in the crumbling of his sordid empire. Sign me up!

[MinisterofDOOM]

This goes beyond stupidity. This is a very special type of entitlement. People feel like anytime something goes wrong, there's someone or something to blame. SOMEONE has to be at fault. And it's not even a "s*** happens" kind of situation. It's a "I refuse to accept responsibility for my own mistakes" situation.
To be completely honest, I find the whiny woman to be just as disgusting as the scammer. And just as much of a problem. After all, if it wasn't for morons like her, scammers wouldn't have a market to sell to. Woman: your stupid is YOUR problem. It is not Google's problem. It is not my problem. Blaming innocent third parties for YOUR mistake is JUST as wrong as selling counterfeit merchandise.

When I take over the world, stupid frivolous finger pointing like this will be punishable by death. Let's see you try to crap all over the legal system over a pair of f*** GLASSES when you're staring down the barrel of a noose. a**.

This is actually sort of fascinating.

I mean, he's a terrible person, but I admire any sort of system-gaming. If it's really working for him and it's not just talk, it's definitely a loop that needs to be closed, lol.

[Razi]

That's a good book, interesting read.

[Encryptshun]

If that book were really legit, it would come shrink-wrapped (no demo copies) and unwrapping would reveal all pages to be blank.

[Dattebayo]

If that book were really legit, it would come shrink-wrapped (no demo copies) and unwrapping would reveal all pages to be blank.

But you'd have to use some lemon and heat to see the writing, then employ a cipher to understand it.

[NY94J30]

Google has apparently taken steps to change its algorithm in response to this article.

http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2010/12/ ... d-for.html

[D1SR240]

Just ran across this article.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/yblog_thelookou ... -customers

Turns out the guy got arrested for mail and wire fraud because of the NY Times article that Greg posted.

[frapjap]

Excellent. Hopefully he gets to refund every last customer. And gets it in the butt in jail/prison/fatcamp/alley next to his house/wherever hes headed next.

[AZhitman]

Yep.

Go ahead and lip off to someone in jail - we'll see how far that lame-a$$ "I'm from New York" excuse gets him.

Side note: I HATE when people use that as an excuse to be an a$$hole.

[Razi]

Yep.

Go ahead and lip off to someone in jai| - we'll see how far that lame-a$$ "I'm from New York" excuse gets him.

Side note: I HATE when people use that as an excuse to be an a$$hole.

[es.biggs]

Hope he does a lot of time. That kind of crap screws with people's lives. Granted, they were naive for buying from him, it was very wrong on his part at the same time.

Now that he's in jail, I don't have to go vigilante on him.