"The delimma...I had several choices open to me. Here's what I had on the table:
1. Just sell/part out the car, be done with it and buy a brand new 2001 Mercedes-Benz CL55
2. Buy a brand new stock engine and transmission and reinstall it back into the car at a tune of nearly $8000
3. Buy a brand new 6.0L block from RENNtech or MKB at a cost of $15,950 for JUST the engine, another $2,000 for the transmission, plus $3500 for labor and towing = $21,450 minimum
4. Talk to AMG and get a 6.0L block from them in Germany at the tune of $10,000
5. Sit and twiddle my thumbs and keep driving my other cars...."
http://www.mbcoupes.com/member...1.htm
I think you'll find the 16 pages and narration interesting, boy is this guy good at technical work!
A common delimma even for MB
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infinitinut
- Posts: 44
- Joined: Mon Oct 14, 2002 2:21 am
- Car: golf
Yeah, I stumbled upon this page while cruising through the MBZ forums. I wish I could do such superhuman feats of modifications!!!
I think it would be fun to put in an LS1 (Corvette C5 engine). I do believe they can be aquired for not a lot of money. I know LT1s are pretty cheap and have tons of cheap mods available for them. Others benefit would be that the Chevy V8s should be significantly lighter than stock, cheaper to fix and would probably get better MPG while giving more HP (my uncle can get up to 32 MPG highway and typically over 20 MPG in town in his Vette).
I think it would be fun to put in an LS1 (Corvette C5 engine). I do believe they can be aquired for not a lot of money. I know LT1s are pretty cheap and have tons of cheap mods available for them. Others benefit would be that the Chevy V8s should be significantly lighter than stock, cheaper to fix and would probably get better MPG while giving more HP (my uncle can get up to 32 MPG highway and typically over 20 MPG in town in his Vette).
The old Chevy small block is highly underrated. I've got an Lt1 in my Corvette and the 340 lbs of torque is a lot of fun, even with the 2.59 rear in the car.
I get over 20 mpg and I'm on it a lot. As was said, its easy to fix and cheap to mod. For 2k you can push it to almost 400 hp. vs the stock 300.
In the vette you can turn a quarter in 13.6 with the 2.59 in the rear and do high 12 with a 3.53 that doesn't give up much in gas mileage and 1.6 roller rockers and some intake and exhaust work.
Not bad for such an old design, and you don't need to get it up to 60 to start having fun. Yet it will still do 160 or more.
I get over 20 mpg and I'm on it a lot. As was said, its easy to fix and cheap to mod. For 2k you can push it to almost 400 hp. vs the stock 300.
In the vette you can turn a quarter in 13.6 with the 2.59 in the rear and do high 12 with a 3.53 that doesn't give up much in gas mileage and 1.6 roller rockers and some intake and exhaust work.
Not bad for such an old design, and you don't need to get it up to 60 to start having fun. Yet it will still do 160 or more.
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Q45tech
- Moderator
- Posts: 14296
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
If you can get 337 lb/ft out of a Q motor [$600] then you would need at least another 100 lb/ft to get it 1.0 seconds faster in the quarter or 70-75 lb/ft with a stick. Only the brand new LS9 Corvette version of the 346 Chevy gets close.Even AMG MB is now using 5.5 liters......336 cubic inches
I doubt his 560 [new500] SEC was more than 0.6 secs faster than the 90 Q.
Did you see that the MB 5.0 uses the same VVT as the Q, same duration, same lift, same 20 degrees advance retard......look at the less than optimum exhaust manifolds........but a diff gear change and no cats probably 340 HP vs our 307 [with JWT ecu].
Our 4,000 pounds of unloaded weight is a major problem......so think big another 100 HP minimum.By the way the JWT NOx [75 HP/120 lb/ft extra] system gets 13.8/103 mph in the quarter......traction problems with the 4.083 diff gear
I doubt his 560 [new500] SEC was more than 0.6 secs faster than the 90 Q.
Did you see that the MB 5.0 uses the same VVT as the Q, same duration, same lift, same 20 degrees advance retard......look at the less than optimum exhaust manifolds........but a diff gear change and no cats probably 340 HP vs our 307 [with JWT ecu].
Our 4,000 pounds of unloaded weight is a major problem......so think big another 100 HP minimum.By the way the JWT NOx [75 HP/120 lb/ft extra] system gets 13.8/103 mph in the quarter......traction problems with the 4.083 diff gear
That car just drips coolness.
Maybe we need to mod and rejuvenate a first gen Q like that.
Say take a early 90's "a" make all new everything, add a MANUAL transmission say a T56 6 speed or a ZF, and then put in a supercharged VH45DE or VK45DE.If I suddenly won the lottery big (of course I dont play it so i guess I wont).. that's exactly what i would do.
Fred...
Maybe we need to mod and rejuvenate a first gen Q like that.
Say take a early 90's "a" make all new everything, add a MANUAL transmission say a T56 6 speed or a ZF, and then put in a supercharged VH45DE or VK45DE.If I suddenly won the lottery big (of course I dont play it so i guess I wont).. that's exactly what i would do.
Fred...
The LS1 engine is lighter than the VH45DE, but not much. Someone test fitted the Q motor in a 240z and weighed the block, it came up to 520 pounds while a similar LS1 weighed 504. However, the LS1 is narrower than the VH and does have the advantage of hooking up with a T56 manual transmission and loads of aftermarket parts but it's not as refined as the Q's quad-cam.
I've driven a friend's ram-air trans am. Sure the torque is great but it doesn't have that smoothness and that deep slug of power. I hate how the power tapers off at about 5000rpm whereas I can rev my motor to almost 7 and a half grand. An LS6 would be different.
This may sound like blasphemy to some, but I think the best engine for a Q45 swap is a stroked Toyota Tundra motor with LS400 heads. The block weighs the same as a Q motor but is iron-block and can be stroked to 5.3L. It too can be mated to a 6spd, there's a shop that's fabricated a bellhousing to make this motor work with the Supra transmission. We're talking about a DOHC, high-revving motor with VVT and can takes tons of boost. Will totally transform a Q from a car with enough go-juice to a true highway monster.
I've driven a friend's ram-air trans am. Sure the torque is great but it doesn't have that smoothness and that deep slug of power. I hate how the power tapers off at about 5000rpm whereas I can rev my motor to almost 7 and a half grand. An LS6 would be different.
This may sound like blasphemy to some, but I think the best engine for a Q45 swap is a stroked Toyota Tundra motor with LS400 heads. The block weighs the same as a Q motor but is iron-block and can be stroked to 5.3L. It too can be mated to a 6spd, there's a shop that's fabricated a bellhousing to make this motor work with the Supra transmission. We're talking about a DOHC, high-revving motor with VVT and can takes tons of boost. Will totally transform a Q from a car with enough go-juice to a true highway monster.
Thats the same combo Craig Paisley runs in his Tundra to go low 7s, it is deffinatley a nice combo, but how about using the Infiniti engine that is ran in the Indy car, except lower the compression Iron sleeve it then for good daily performance we put on a nice S/C running say 10-15 lbs of boost have the transmission done at Level 10 to handle 600 ft lbs of tourque, then add a intercooler in the spot where the airbox was, now you can run some ducting to get cool air to the IC, a little Aquamist like AGMs car, a standalone system like a Haltech or somethin, and a 4.08 gears set stuffed into a Dana rearend, and a touch of nitrous, That would be a nice Q,( ok maybe im dreaming :thinker )
LOL wow that's overkill isn't it? Those IRL cars cost over a million each and the engine amounts to 25% of the cost so I don't think I'll be getting any of those anytime soon.
The Toyota/Lexus 2UZ swap is definitely doable. Plenty of transmissions to use. You can go with the Supra 6spd or a GM 4l60E or if you're real crazy (700HP+) a built 4l80E. There's a guy in TX I believe who has an 820hp Lexus SC300 with Supra swap that uses this transmission.
The Toyota/Lexus 2UZ swap is definitely doable. Plenty of transmissions to use. You can go with the Supra 6spd or a GM 4l60E or if you're real crazy (700HP+) a built 4l80E. There's a guy in TX I believe who has an 820hp Lexus SC300 with Supra swap that uses this transmission.
LOL, yeah I was dreamin again, I dont think I could put the toyota motor in the Q, however I could do it in the first gen GS300, when I was in Miami I seen one that had the exact swap you where talking about, man this thing was naaaasssty, sounded sick, the owner said that his best 1/4 time was 11.80@ 118 mph, said he had some decent wheel spin, also what about doing that same swap with the Toyota V8 into an LS400
