A/C Retrofit - NYC mechanic recommendations?
A/C Retrofit - NYC mechanic recommendations?
Hi, I am thinking of retrofitting my '92 240sx from r12 to r134a. Does anyone know of a reputable place that can do this? My local mechanic does not have a r12 recovery system, so I rather try someone else. Any recommendations are welcome!
While I dont have a specifc recommendation, the most common basic conversion is pretty simple and can be done by most anyone.
Usually go between 100-200.
But unless you replace both the converter + condensor as well (which at that price no one does) you will see noticably reduced AC performance.
It takes years of a leaky AC to break even with a R134a conversion vs leaving it stock.
Fred...
Usually go between 100-200.
But unless you replace both the converter + condensor as well (which at that price no one does) you will see noticably reduced AC performance.
It takes years of a leaky AC to break even with a R134a conversion vs leaving it stock.
Fred...
Beyond the performance difference, you will probably see the AC completely fail within 2 years with a conversion that only costs $200. The oils of the 2 refrigerants are incompatible. If they mix, or if there's moisture in the system from not replacing the drier, something (compressor, most likely) will fail quickly.
Yes, I have heard of it. You can buy the stuff without an EPA license, but legally you still need your old stuff recovered, and legally, you cannot mix the two refrigerants, regardless of how compatible they are. (Thus, *legally* you can't just top off your R-12 with Freeze-12). Whether there are any adverse effects of mixing them, I do not know, and I would be curious to find out. Of course, what's legal and what's enforced are 2 different things.
Some good info on alternative refrigerants, including Freeze-12:
http://autorefrigerants.com/freeze12faq ... ts-f12.htm
Some good info on alternative refrigerants, including Freeze-12:
http://autorefrigerants.com/freeze12faq ... ts-f12.htm
I agree it's worth considering, especially since it appears you can use the exact same oil as what R-12 uses. But if your system is *empty* the drier should be replaced and the system vacuumed out to remove moisture and air. If you're environmentally conscious, though, understand that you may not be able to find any shop willing (capable) of evacuating out Freeze-12, since they would need a dedicated machine to do so, which is not likely to be cost effective, and less likely they would be capable of evacuating out a blend of R-12 and Freeze-12.
Hi All! I got my system converted for $110 + tax at a chain auto parts store there. Yes, they did evacuate the system of R12, and used a conversion kit containing ester oil. However it appears that a "cycle switch" was bad, and that may have been the cause of my A/C problem to begin with, not a low freon level. The FAQ 240sx.org said that if the A/C light does not light up, it was most likely low pressure.
I should have had them check the system for me, rather than ask them to do the coversion immediately. So much for second guessing the mechanic! Now I just have to hope my compressor does not go out before next year.
I should have had them check the system for me, rather than ask them to do the coversion immediately. So much for second guessing the mechanic! Now I just have to hope my compressor does not go out before next year.
I don't know about others' experiences, but to me, the biggest rip-off with AC repair is that I could not find a place locally that would give me credit for the freon they removed. So if I needed a new compressor but my freon level was full, they would charge me the full 45 ounces of R-12 as part of the job. I called around to several places at one point in time, and none of them would agree to give me any credit. One manager told me that that is why he bought such an expensive machine, and that if I didn't like it, I could go buy my own damn machine. So I did.If you didn't get credit for your R-12, understand that they might actually make more off the R-12 they removed ($3/oz pure profit) than what they charged you for the retro (parts + labor + profit).It's possible the switch they replaced was fine, just that it didn't work with the new fluid, since it operates at a different pressure than the fluid it was intended for.
Yes I figured that they should make some money off the R12 they removed. The best quote I got was $150 for the retrofit. So when they offerred $110 parts and labor, I jumped for it. Especially when I saw the kit selling on their shelf for $50. The kit they used is here: http://www.id-usa.com/spkits.htm. That site also has a good FAQ. The kit that was installed in my car had 0-ring lubricant and stop-leak mixed into the R134a.
But as you said, they probably made more off the R12 than the $110 they charged me. I suspect that my system was mostly full of R12, but it was really the switch that was bad and I didn't need to do the retrofit. Also I suspect that since the shop belonged to a chain, they are most likely to have a deal with someone to buy their R12.
Well the important thing is that the A/C is now working. I shorted the circuit, bypassing the switch, so now the compressor will come on whenever the interior A/C button is pressed. They did not have the cycle switch in stock (most likely a dealer part), but I doubt that it would be cheap.
Daedalus, if I continue this switch bypass, do you think it would be a problem? The mechanic said that running the compressor continuously (without the cycle switch to turn it off) would burn it out prematurely. So I am manually turning the A/C on and off for now.
Thanks for your help!
But as you said, they probably made more off the R12 than the $110 they charged me. I suspect that my system was mostly full of R12, but it was really the switch that was bad and I didn't need to do the retrofit. Also I suspect that since the shop belonged to a chain, they are most likely to have a deal with someone to buy their R12.
Well the important thing is that the A/C is now working. I shorted the circuit, bypassing the switch, so now the compressor will come on whenever the interior A/C button is pressed. They did not have the cycle switch in stock (most likely a dealer part), but I doubt that it would be cheap.
Daedalus, if I continue this switch bypass, do you think it would be a problem? The mechanic said that running the compressor continuously (without the cycle switch to turn it off) would burn it out prematurely. So I am manually turning the A/C on and off for now.
Thanks for your help!
Just to make sure we are talking about the right switch... I read another posting about a bad thermal switch on the compressor. But the switch I am having problems with is on top of a cylinder near the battery. It looks like there are two high pressure lines going into it, and two wires going into a 3/4" hex nut on top. Is this called the low pressure switch or cycle switch? - confused.
That cylinder is the reciever/drier. It's what contains dessicant that removes any moisture from the fluid as it passes through there on its way to the compressor. I'll make the assumption that the pressure switch you're talking about is a dual-pressure switch. I don't think it's intended to click off and on too often, but it does act as a safety device, turning off the compressor if the pressure gets too high or too low. By bypassing it, you risk placing more stress on the system and compressor. I agree with the tech. You can turn it on and off manually, like you said, but that's a real PITA, and you have no idea what the pressure in the drier is.
-
soilwork240sx
- Posts: 130
- Joined: Sun Jun 29, 2003 4:26 pm
Hey Daedalus, well I hope everything is done. After running the A/C with a paper clip shorting the pressure swtich circuit, I took the car back to R&S Strauss stores to have the new switch put in. Yes, I was doubtful that they would only charge me $48 especially since the system has to be opened, but that's how much it ended up costing me. I heard a hissing sound coming out of the car twice or 3x when they were working on it, so I hope they did not release the R-134a/ester oil into the air. But the front of the car was sure oily... Thanks for your help, the AC is now running great!
-
Q45tech
- Moderator
- Posts: 14296
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
R134a conversions from R12 always provide at least 3.6-5F warmer air from the vents - unless you change the evaporator and condenser to the larger different finned R134a type.
The 50 psi higher operating pressure of the retrofitted system tends to blow out the old R12 hoses and compressor seals, etc.
R134a is a smaller molecular sized gas than R12 so things may leak more and faster.
Study Infiniti ITB94-054 Technical bulletin for things that happen when you convert.
The 50 psi higher operating pressure of the retrofitted system tends to blow out the old R12 hoses and compressor seals, etc.
R134a is a smaller molecular sized gas than R12 so things may leak more and faster.
Study Infiniti ITB94-054 Technical bulletin for things that happen when you convert.