A book vs. a life. Another reason to leave Iraq.

[rn79870]

Another sign that it's time to leave Iraq. A sniper puts a few rounds through the Quran and the people go insane with rage. Yet, when a father murders his 16 year old daughter for liking a Westerner, that escapes their ire. A book over a life. What a society.

This all makes me wonder, why in the heck are we still there? Do we really care one darn bit about those people?

BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Iraq's most powerful Sunni Arab political party on Monday said a U.S. soldier's desecration of the Quran, the Muslim holy book, requires the "severest of punishments," not just an apology and a military reassignment.

The Iraqi Islamic Party, the movement of Iraqi Vice President Tariq al-Hashimi, condemned what it said was a "blatant assault on the sanctities of Muslims all over the world."

An American staff sergeant who was a sniper section leader used a Quran for target practice on May 9.

The U.S. commander in Baghdad on Saturday issued a formal apology and read a letter of apology from the shooter.

The sergeant has been relieved of duty as a section leader "with prejudice," officially reprimanded by his commanding general, dismissed from his regiment and redeployed -- reassigned to the United States.

But the Iraqi Islamic Party -- which said it reacted to the news "with deep resentment and indignation" -- wants the "severest of punishments" for the action to serve as a lesson for the future.

I get a little hotter each time I read this.

In discussing this, let's avoid turning it into a discussion of the Quran. Thanks.

[smockers83]

Without turning this into a religion topic, lets think about it this way. Here in the US, we hear about someone getting murdered, we think its sad, bad, whatever, and we move on. If someone puts bullets through a Bible, I think you'd see the same reaction from the devoted Christians, priests, bishops, the Pope and all of the Vatican.

The only thing that really got me, sort of, about that article that you didn't quote was that they were a little upset that it took two weeks for it to become public.
Modified by smockers83 at 2:22 PM 5/19/2008

[1unar3clipse]

People can get just as uptight if not more-so over the Bible and especially the US flag.

Hell I know some Niconauts who get huffy over the US flag being put on the ground, But then we pretend we can't understand the principle behind the "perceived desecration" of the Quran.

[audtatious]

I don't agree. People rip up bibles and make fun of Christian stuff all the time and you don't hear crap about it.

Yes, people do get uptight about the flag

[AZhitman]

But the Iraqi Islamic Party -- which said it reacted to the news "with deep resentment and indignation" -- wants the "severest of punishments" for the action to serve as a lesson for the future.

A lesson? Are you freaking KIDDING me? You're gonna teach WHO a lesson?

NO culture that degrades women and prides itself on its human rights abuses is worthy of teaching such "a lesson".

THAT in and of itself only strengthens my resolve to stay the course.

When a damn inanimate object has more rights than a human being, there's a sure sign that those who ascribe to it are unworthy of the air they breathe.

Burn a flag. Tear up a Bible. I don't give a damn. BUT, don't murder your wife for showing her ankle in public.

My disrespect for the hypocrisies of radical Islam increase day by day.

Piss on this faux political party - Put a few Stingers through the roof of their HQ's on my behalf.

[AZhitman]

Someone told a pretty offensive joke about Jesus at a meet this weekend.

I shook my head.

The joketeller has no idea I disapprove.

What would you all have thought of me if I'd executed him in the parking lot to "serve as a lesson"?

Go ahead - Think about it. Now apply it to this situation.

Leaving is NOT THE ANSWER.

Nope - Now is the time to free the enslaved, comfort the fearful, liberate the women, educate the children, medicate the sick, and care for the oppressed.

[audtatious]

We would all miss Kenny

[rn79870]

The fact that that society is so fundamentally different from ours precludes our ability to “win” over there. We have major differences that will never be resolved regardless of what we do or try to do. They are willing to take our money and our assets, but they are not willing to budge one inch from their practices and philosophies, even those we find fundamentally offensive.

The “win” in Iraq is to leave Iraq to whatever government bullies it’s way into power. The truth be known, that is probably what will happen the minute we leave anyway, whether it’s tomorrow, or 5 years from now. Why further bankrupt America, and send our troops into harms way for that cause.

Bless our troops, and those who sacrifice for our way of life. I just hope it all works out to be worthwhile in the long run.

[1unar3clipse]

We can't pull out anyways: instability will ensue, another radical regime will seize control.. or be put in place, basically making it worse than it was before.Then again War is big business, and here in the US we are all about big business.

Burn a flag. Tear up a Bible. I don't give a damn. BUT, don't murder your wife for showing her ankle in public.

Word, objects are not as valuable as human life.

Thats probably the entire debate: is a "holy" book damaged worth a human dead?

[audtatious]

I seem to remember when reports were coming in about captured terrorists and their Korans. Every one is issued a copy upon capture (bedtime stories I guess) but most of them did nothing with them or tore out the pages.

Strange that nobody reports that kinda stuff anymore

[wingFeather]

Another sign that it's time to leave Iraq.

This is not a reason to leave, just proof that we need more troops there.

[AZhitman]

I seem to remember when reports were coming in about captured terrorists and their Korans. Every one is issued a copy upon capture (bedtime stories I guess) but most of them did nothing with them or tore out the pages.

Strange that nobody reports that kinda stuff anymore

Exactly.

Interesting that Muhammed himself never claimed to be worthy of worship. In fact, only one has made that claim.

Coincidence?

[rn79870]

I seem to remember when reports were coming in about captured terrorists and their Korans. Every one is issued a copy upon capture (bedtime stories I guess) but most of them did nothing with them or tore out the pages.

Strange that nobody reports that kinda stuff anymore

The infidels touched them and they were therefore defiled.

Seriously, does anyone not think that the minute we leave chaos won't return? Why wait.

[audtatious]

You mean turn it into a green glass parking lot when we pull out?

[rn79870]

You're thinking of Iran.

[audtatious]

that too?

Damn, you are harsh for a demmie!!!

[Repo Man]

You're thinking of Iran.

Speaking of Iran, if we pull out without leaving a strong government in place, Ahmadenenenenenenenenejhad will swoop in and take over. Then we'll just have to go back in and it'll make the number of casualties we've already taken pale in comparison. Not really a good idea.

I'm sending Greg to comfort teh women once they've been liberated.

[rn79870]

I'm sending Greg to comfort teh women once they've been liberated.

Maybe we can get a report about what is under a Jilbab. I've always wondered about that.

[Encryptshun]

So if someone in Massachusets circa 1640 had shot a musket into a Bible, are you all saying that the Puritans would have said "It's okay, we know you didn't mean anything by it."?

Hell no. They would have burned that person alive.

[AZhitman]

^ Probably so, but we'er not over there burning people alive for calling us "The Great Satan".

We've evolved past that. Unfortunately, we're dealing with a primitive culture.

[rn79870]

So you're saying their society is 500 years behind ours?

[audtatious]

Is that being nice?

[Encryptshun]

So you're saying their society is 500 years behind ours?

Religious fundamentalism exists outside the normal space-time continuum. I'm just offering up a parallel from our own past.

[rn79870]

Nice?????I think their society is archaic compared to ours in a multitude of ways. In fact, I can't think of one way in which they compare favorably with ours. This isn't meant to blame the people, but to enlighten others to how backwards they are. The bottom line is that we don't understand them, or their ways, and we're only in the way there. Hence my sink of swim attitude towards their governing themselves. IMO, it's time to let them swim...or sink. We need to turn out attention and our assets towards solving Americas problems, not the worlds.

[rn79870]

Religious fundamentalism exists outside the normal space-time continuum. I'm just offering up a parallel from our own past.

Fundamentalism should have expired with the end of medieval times, back when a deity was deemed responsible for any event that was not understood or was unexpected. Appeasing that deity was the motive for many act that we look at as insanity today. A society that believes killing in order to gain favor with their deity is a sick society. A person who expressed that thought in our society would be locked up in an asylum and not let out.

[audtatious]

Nice?????I think their society is archaic compared to ours in a multitude of ways. In fact, I can't think of one way in which they compare favorably with ours. This isn't meant to blame the people, but to enlighten others to how backwards they are. The bottom line is that we don't understand them, or their ways, and we're only in the way there. Hence my sink of swim attitude towards their governing themselves. IMO, it's time to let them swim...or sink. We need to turn out attention and our assets towards solving Americas problems, not the worlds.

I meant "being nice" as saying they are only 500 years behind

[AZhitman]

...and, to complete Bob's thought, I'm not terribly concerned with the protection or preservation of the "rights" of a society that violates its own citizens human rights as a matter of course.

You can straighten up your act of we can straighten it out for you.

Pompous of us? Maybe.

But with great power comes great responsibility - and bailing on the oppressed members of those societies is irresponsible.

[Encryptshun]

But Greg, these "oppressed" citizens are the very wackos that we don't want to encourage in the first place (in many cases).

Doesn't this sortof go back to that argument about Saddam's regime that was brought up around 2002/2003? "Did Saddam create Iraq or did Iraq create Saddam?" Maybe his despotic treatment of his citizens was the only pragmatic solution to a country that's always been ready to tear itself apart?

[audtatious]

It's a catch-22 world full of hindsight with all blame pointed to one person

[rn79870]

And we need to be there, in Iraq, and play a part in this becasue...???