A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Discuss topics related to the CA18DE and CA18DET series engines.
1200ute
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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby 1200ute » Thu Mar 17, 2016 11:51 pm

Great work!


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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby kings13 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 8:43 am

looking good dude. the anticipation is killing me.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby float_6969 » Mon Mar 28, 2016 9:27 am

Me too. I had a minor set back this weekend though. I got the CAI done. I went to turn it over to test the wiring and programming for the EHPS. I set it up so that the pump wouldn't come on until the engine was actually running. I went to turn it over and it made a sound like it wanted to crank but just stopped. I knew something was wrong. My spidey-sense told me it wasn't a starter/electrical issue, so I didn't hit it again. Then I remembered that I had been smelling fuel but couldn't even find a fuel leak. I wondered if I had a leaking injector and it was hydrolocked. I pulled the plugs and sure enough, #1 and #3 had standing fuel in them. I checked the piston heights and they are all identical, so no bent rods. The injectors don't have 250 miles on them, but they sat with E85 on them for 3 years. I built a quick and dirty injector tester at home and it wasn't good. #1 & #3 leak like a sieve at anything over about 20psi. #2 was fine and #4 wouldn't even open. I called Deatchwerks and they said they could try cleaning them, but that they were probably ruined, so I just ordered a new set, plus their biggest in-tank pump. So I'm on hold till those come in. I also realized that I'm going to have to get my AC situation sorted out BEFORE I do the exhaust, or the suction line and the exhaust will be too close to each other. I can't find my stock crank pulley and I was running the Ross Race balancer so there's no belt for the AC or PS. I was hoping I could just order a pulley set from Ross, but the company changed ownership and the previous owner didn't keep good records on build specs, so the new stuff doesn't interchange with the old stuff. A new Metal Jacket balancer doesn't exist in the U.S. and its 2+ weeks to get them in from Ross unless I want to pay outrageous money for air freight shipping. So I found a shitty undampened aluminum pulley on eBay and I'm going to modify it to bolt onto my existing pulley. Will cost WAAYY less money and Ross says it won't hurt anything either. So I'm again at a standstill until I get parts. Bleh.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby 1200ute » Fri Apr 01, 2016 6:03 pm

I found out the hard way with the Ross Balancers. I had an old race series balancer and purchased a drive adapter for it just before Ross was taken over/sold. The PCD on the mounting bolts had changed at some stage. Luckily the new owners still looked after me and custom machined a drive adapter to suit my balancer, I had to send my balancer into them but it wasn't a big deal as I'm in Australia.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby float_6969 » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:41 am

Yea, I think they knew about it with me, and when I asked about ordering the drive adapter they told me about those issues. I was able to figure out (through NICO actually) when I bought it and found some pics. That confirmed it for me that mine was old and they didn't have the correct info to know what it needed. They didn't offer to machine one for me, but I doubt sending mine all the way there, have one made, and then shipped back would have been worth the money. I dropped the Chineese undamped pulley and my dampener off at the machine shop yesterday, so we'll see if he can do something with it by next week. I'm not hopeful though. He said up front that he didn't think there was enough material in the aluminum pulley to be able to machine it down and make it work safely. Just in case, I already ordered a Metal Jacket balancer from Ross and an extra set of magnets from SDS. I didn't realize that their prices online were in AUD, so I was really balking at the prices. If I had realized that the price including shipping was going to be what it ended up being, I wouldn't have even messed with the aluminum pulley nonsense in the first place. Oh well.

On a positive note, I got the new injectors (1200cc) and fuel pump (300lph in-tank) in. Injectors are installed, and I'll probably get the fuel pump in tomorrow. I was also waiting on some countersink drill bits that came in as well, so I can finish working on the adapter plate, which I hope to have time to work on tomorrow. The adapter plate won't be finished until I get one of the pulley's here so I can get it bolted on to a spare engine so I will know exactly where the AC pump needs to sit. This bracket should be the last thing I need to fabricate. Then I can bolt the crank pulley back on, get a new AC compressor, have a new suction line made (there's a local place that can make them), modify my existing down pipe (the EFR turbo sit a bit higher and a little closer to the firewall than the old Garrett it replaced), oil change, add water (no anti-freeze until I know I don't have any coolant leaks) and start it up and start driving it!

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby themadscientist » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:18 pm

AC? What's that? Seems like it should be eliminated.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby float_6969 » Sat Apr 02, 2016 5:47 pm

I'm too old to be driving around when it's 100% humidity and 115 degrees. Plus I have a kiddo that I want to take for rides and watching her sweating in her car seat breaks my heart. It's a street car, not a race car.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby themadscientist » Sun Apr 03, 2016 2:56 am

Ok, take out the power steering. CMON, validate my quirks!

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby float_6969 » Sun Apr 03, 2016 5:24 am

LOL, actually, I put power steering back in as well. But it's based on a Toyota Spyder MR2 Electro-Hydraulic unit. It's also going to get it's power brakes back. I found a remote mounted brake booster unit used on Hot Rods that I'm going to use.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby float_6969 » Sun May 15, 2016 8:47 pm

Today was the day. I drove my CA18DET S14 for the first time in over 4 years today. It put such a huge smile on my face. The EFR7064 did not disappoint. I was really worried about the bottom end of the rev range being terrible. 4 port head, CPC manifold, HKS 264 cams and a 70mm turbo is NOT the combo you put together and expect low end torque. The most common thing I read about the EFR was how it made the engine behave off boost. Trying to explain this in words on the internet, or a dyno plot, or even a video doesn't really do it justice. I don't know how or why, but I have torque down low. Not mind-blowing, V8 like torque, but like stock turbo at 7psi kinda torque. I have a lot of tuning to do. The tune on there is from the T04E and stock intake manifold. So, what everyone wants to know, when did it spool. Well, it was hard to tell for sure, as I kept hitting boost cut, and my boost gauge must have a bad connection somewhere because it kept acting up, but I'm pretty sure I was hitting wastegate pressure of 7psi by 4K RPM!!!! And the really amazing thing was I was making positive boost by 3K. But the top end. I couldn't believe it. I kept hitting boost cut and it took me a little while to figure it out. I had boost cut set for 8psi, but I was maxing out the wastegate and by 6500 it was creeping up to 8psi. Then I bumped the boost cut up to 15psi. I about lost my mind. At about 7500 I hit boost cut again. I actually said, "Oh Fvk!" out loud. My butt dyno says well over 300whp at 15psi at 7500, and there was no signs that power was falling off. This thing is going to be a beast. I can't wait to get all the bugs worked out and get it on the dyno and get a good tune on it. This turbo is supposed to be capable of 560hp. I was hoping to get close to 500whp, but I didn't think I'd actually get there. Today changed my mind.

I know everyone is going to want pics and vids, but I discovered a fuel leak in the return line, so until I get that fixed, I'm not even going to start it again. As soon as that's done it's going straight to the exhaust shop. It's WAY to loud for my quiet little neighborhood.

1200ute
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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby 1200ute » Sun May 15, 2016 11:58 pm

It most be great to get back driving it after so long. The results sound very promising, I bet it'll be even better once tuned and the boost is turned up.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby themadscientist » Tue May 17, 2016 2:54 am

Glad to hear it's back on the road!

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby float_6969 » Tue Jun 07, 2016 9:15 pm

OK, so since my last post, I've done a lot. Mostly boring wiring stuff. Tonight though I went for a long drive and did a lot of tuning. I'm really pleased with this setup so far. I can't get over how well this turbo does. In 5th on the highway, I consistently get 2psi of boost at 2500rpm. By 3000rpm it's up to a solid 4psi and I think the wastegate (it's a 7psi spring) is opening up around 3500rpm. Once again, this is on the highway in 5th, so the numbers are about as good as they get. The fueling and timing are still very conservative, so I may still gain on those numbers some. Regardless, my old T04E did almost nothing before 4000, then it just exploded. The transient response is also basically instantaneous, even at low loads. Not quite as good as the S15 SR T28 I ran for a while, but pretty damn close.

I keep comparing it in my mind to my Mazdaspeed Protégé. If you don't know, it's a 2L turbo. The stock turbo is a little GT2554, so it's quite responsive and has good low end. It's not nearly that good from 2000-3000, but anything over 3000, it's way faster.

Once I get the tune sorted out and can actually run it to redline cleanly, I'll get a video up.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby Antihero » Wed Jun 08, 2016 6:35 am

Updates?

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float_6969
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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby float_6969 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:34 am

Look at the post above yours. I just updated last night.

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louiswun
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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby louiswun » Wed Jun 08, 2016 10:20 am

Hi Float, what wastegate size are you using ?

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby float_6969 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:35 am

It's an old HKS unit. I'm pretty sure it's a 46mm.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby float_6969 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:41 am

I just re-read some of my old posts and realized I left out some info. Fuel injectors and pump solved my hydro lock issue. Boost creep issue was due to the timing being not advanced enough. One I advanced the timing up, that seems to have mostly fixed it, so the boost creep issue wasn't due to the wastegate.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby Antihero » Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:53 pm

float_6969 wrote:Look at the post above yours. I just updated last night.
Crap. Sorry about that! I wasn't on the last page and didn't realize it. :slap:

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby float_6969 » Wed Jun 08, 2016 2:59 pm

No worries!

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby Buddyworm » Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:14 am

float_6969 wrote:I just re-read some of my old posts and realized I left out some info. Fuel injectors and pump solved my hydro lock issue. Boost creep issue was due to the timing being not advanced enough. One I advanced the timing up, that seems to have mostly fixed it, so the boost creep issue wasn't due to the wastegate.
How are you controlling the wastegate? Or are you just running on the spring?

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby float_6969 » Thu Jun 09, 2016 11:49 am

Spring only right now. This spring should get me to about 15psi (it's a 7psi spring). Once so have my tuning done up to that point I have a 14psi spring to put in. That should get me up to the mid 20's in boost pressure. If I still have room left in fueling/turbocharger flow,HKS makes a 20-something psi spring I can order if needed. I'm not really expecting to get that far though. I think I'll max out my injectors before then.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby Izento » Fri Jun 10, 2016 6:03 am

So, I gotta ask, since you seem to be avoiding it. What's your beef with boost controllers? Lol.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby r34 gtr » Fri Jun 10, 2016 3:03 pm

I believe he is controlling boost using his ECU.

Its not ideal to be running really high boost with a low-pressure wastegate spring. You want the spring to be only somewhat lower than the boost pressure you are trying to achieve for a variety of reasons. If the pressure difference between WG spring pressure and target boost pressure is too great, you lose spool efficiency. The lighter spring can't effectively keep the WG diaphragm closed at high pressures. This means you can also get variation from your boost control setup, and the higher the pressure differential, the greater those variations can be.

A good rule of thumb is to not run more than twice the target boost than your WG spring is designed to handle, which looks to be what Float is doing.

For example, my Audi only runs factory boost control (very basic) and I have a 27psi WG spring installed. Its super reliable, which is nice, because the rest of the car certainly is not.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby float_6969 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:36 pm

Izento wrote:So, I gotta ask, since you seem to be avoiding it. What's your beef with boost controllers? Lol.
No beef with boost controllers. When you're building a map from scratch, it's always safest to run the lowest boost possible. With high octane fuel and forged internals, it would be pretty hard to damage at motor at only 7psi, even if your tune is way off. But running a light spring has drawbacks. The first is that you will eventually hit a point where the spring isn't enough to hold the wastegate shut against the manifold pressure and it will start to open, even with a boost controller in place. The general consensus is that on external gates, you can get about 2-2.5 times the spring pressure in boost pressure before the boost won't hold anymore. The second reason is due to "cracking pressure". There's a difference between the pressure a gate will maintain, and when it starts to open. Generally, the wastegate actually starts to open a few psi before the gate pressure. For example, a 7psi spring will maintain 7psi of boost pressure, but may actually open and start to bleed exhaust past the turbo at 4psi. And while a boost controller will help with this some, the weaker the spring, and the more boost you try to run, the more pronounced the effect is. Because of ALL of that. I chose a 7psi spring to get my tune set from 7psi-about 14psi. Once I have my tune sorted out at 14psi, the 7psi spring will come out and the 14psi spring will go in. The 14psi spring should let me tune up till about 28 psi, which is a couple of psi below the point where everything in my system should max out. HKS makes other springs as well, but my thinking about the 14psi spring was that it would allow me to have a nice low boost setting of 14psi that will probably make enough power to beat up on most of the average cars I would run into, while the higher boost setting of 28 psi will let me hang (maybe even beat?) the "big power" cars.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby float_6969 » Fri Jun 10, 2016 7:38 pm

I just saw Tim's post. He stated it much more simply than I did. I'm far too long winded, LOL!

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby Antihero » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:28 pm

So, what would you be looking at for numbers? Torque specifically.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby Buddyworm » Sun Jun 12, 2016 11:15 am

float_6969 wrote:Spring only right now. This spring should get me to about 15psi (it's a 7psi spring). Once so have my tuning done up to that point I have a 14psi spring to put in. That should get me up to the mid 20's in boost pressure. If I still have room left in fueling/turbocharger flow,HKS makes a 20-something psi spring I can order if needed. I'm not really expecting to get that far though. I think I'll max out my injectors before then.
Might still have a hard time keeping it from creeping. With externally gated manifolds it's usually a good bet that the WG pipe doesn't have an "ideal" flow path for boost control. Could have the bulk of your exhaust flow blasting right past the wastegate.

It does depend on how far off you are from MBT though...

If I had to put a (very) rough number on it I'd say 5-6deg or so retarded from MBT is when you start to put enough extra energy through the turbine to get an increase in wheel speed/boost pressure.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby float_6969 » Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:33 pm

The goal is 500whp, but I think if it even does it, it will be right at the limit of everything. Upper 400's should be within reason. I have no idea on torque. It's a CA, so my torque expectations are low.

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Re: A Bad Day In CA18DET Land

Postby Antihero » Sun Jun 12, 2016 6:17 pm

Either way, should be awesome. Very intriguing seeing one in an S14 for once.


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