96Q Cold start issues HELP!

[AdamLowther]

Hi,

96q 120K miles. great running condition, no issues otherwise.

Similar problem as this guy zer...25976

I have ordered a new starter relay as suggested.

The car has a no crank problem when it is cold (-25F) here right now.

I turn the key and get a strong click. If I repeatedly turn the key (maybe 20+ times) eventually it will crank & start. When it does crank, it does so at full speed - indicating to me that the battery is fine.

When the engine is warm it cranks and starts up every time.

Not sure why it only has this issue in the morning when it is cold, and why eventually after turning the key to the start position repeatedly (with a click each time) it will eventually start.

As I said I have ordered the relay, I just am looking for more thoughts as it is friggin cold out and I would like to minimize the wrenching . My problem is similar to the starting issues I found by searching, with the exception that it does eventually crank and start, and that it only happens when the engine is very cold. Like I said the battery is fine, as when it finally does "catch" it cranks a full speed.

Thanks!!

Adam

[elwesso]

Move to florida?????

Onto something more helpful, can you determine if its the relay thats clicking or the starter solenoid? That would be much more helpful in determining whats going on.

If the relay is clicking its the solenoid or starter. Take a jumper wire and go across the solenoid to see if the starter itself works.

[AdamLowther]

The clicking is coming from the relay area at the rear passenger side of the engine bay.

Thanks. Florida is looking good right now. Just got a foot of snow. -55F with the windchill. Canada is in fact cold. True story.

[qship96]

See how it operates after you replace the starter relay.......good chance the contacts of the starter relay are worn from usage and affecting current transfer to the starter.

[AdamLowther]

Ok so the relay wont be here until tues.

So in the meantime I did some more fiddling tonight, and had the wife turn the key back and forth between the start and the on position.

It turns out the starter is clicking and the relay is clicking when turned to start.

Also when she turned the key back to the on position from the start position, I could see a pretty good sized spark inside the blue starter relay. (it was dark and the spark lit up the blue housing).

I am hoping this means that

1) the starter is fine, since the starter is clicking after all.

2) that the relay is the problem as the whole spark thing seems a little strange.

On the other hand, it could be that the spark in the relay is simply the current following the relay switch when the circuit opens.

I have a few days for this to bug me before I get the part so I thought I would see what you think.

PS I also tried boosting it today (just to see if it might change things) with no luck, which pretty much rules out the battery.

Thanks guys.

Adam

[maxnix]

Try the new (or other known working relay) and report back in this thread, please.

[AdamLowther]

Thanks for the help so far guys.

OK, so I got the new relay today, and put it in, same problem. There is still a clicking of the relay and from either the starter or the soleniod. But still no crank.

In fact, it will no longer crank even after toggling the key from the on to the "start" position repeatedly. (previously it would start after doing this for awhile).

Near as I can figure, there must be a dead spot in the starter and it's stuck there.

It still doesnt explain to me why it would always start when warm, but had this trouble starting cold in -20. As near as I can figure, the problem must be the starter itself, but I dont understand why the starter would work when warm, but not when cold. I could understand the cold being an issue for other components of the starting system, but didn't expect it to be a factor in the starter motor itself. Unless there is a bit of icing of the starter motor combined with a dead spot in the starter that just doesnt quite have enough juice to break the ice on the starter.

So long story short, the truck is coming to take it to the shop. I am going to have them take it out and then get it reman'd and put back in. I'd do it myself, but cant move it into my garage, and dont want to put it on jackstands in the street, as the street is covered with snow and I dont really like the idea of being stuck under a car when a jackstand slips.

In other news, I think the $30 for the relay had some benefit. As stated previously both the old relay (and the new one) both spark inside the relay when the key is turned back to the "on" position from the start position. I could see this by having someone else turned the key while I watched the relay at night. The spark will light up the blue housing.

I assume this spark is the current following the switch in the relay as it opens. I think that this would be a good indicator to anyone wondering if their relay works. I would say that if you pop the hood at night, and have someone turn the key to the start position and back to the on position, and see the relay light up breifly, than your relay is probably good as the contacts in the relay are opening and closing.

I would also welcome any thoughts based on the current developments.

[elwesso]

Take a jumper wire and go across the stater solenoid. If that doesnt work, then its new starter time.... try that and report back.

[Kiven422]

cold start issues... you may need your battery replaced

its called cold cranking amps... what your battery can provide and maintain that level of power for over 5 seconds

its actually for the terminals, depending on weather its how far or close apart they are, basically how tightly its connected... your battery may need to be replaced.

[Q45tech]

I'm assumming you are using a 0 w synthetic oil for your climate and a block heater if parked outside over night? Why they make heated garages.

[AdamLowther]

Correct.

The starter's geting rebuilt today. Hopefully that fixes it.

[AdamLowther]

It definitely was the starter. Just got word from the reman guy. The gears and springs were dry as a bone and some electrical components were weak. Its gonna be about $100 to get it remaned. Much cheaper than a aftermarket one, and I get to keep my OEM casing.

Thanks for the help boys. I'll post a final update and some pics when she is on the road. I just got this car and it is my second Q. have to do some basic catch up maitanance such as belts ect. I can also hear a good hum when I turn the key so fuel pump will be getting replaced when it warms up outside and I can hold a wrench without freeze burning my hands.

First one was a '91. This one is pristine.

Blah blah blah

Thanks

[maxnix]

Make sure the rebuild is to OEM standards, i. e. - no short armature, crummy bearings or fewer windings.

[AdamLowther]

This is my first time posting pics so hopefully it works. She looks really good in person, I will take some better ones shortly. Its snowing on the first one, but if gives you an idea.

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[qship96]

Stunning! The 94-96Q was the most elegant and handsome of the entire 90-06 series, both inside and out. A true masterpiece.