96 Q45 with VVT

[cbrooks0003]

Hello,

I have searched for hours trying to find this information, so if it has already been discussed, I apologize... I have a 96 q45 which I know does not have VVT. I have studied the wiring diagrams for both my car and the 94 q, which does have VVT, and found that my car has the exact same sensors (checked part numbers). So, is it possible to put the intake cams (only the intake cams are different, right?) from a 90-94 VH45DE in a 96 model without changing the heads or custom machining anything? If it is, I was thinking I could just change the ECU plug and put a 94 ECU in, and run some wires for the cam solenoids.

Thanks!

Chris

[cbrooks0003]

I was just comparing the service manuals again, and found that apparently the exhaust cams are different too. The journal size is the same, though. I guess the only thing I would be concerned about is the oil flow to the vtc. I looked at the lubrication system diagram and it shows that the oil pressure comes through an orifice into the head and makes its way to journals 1 and 2, then into the cam, then into the vtc. I'm just wondering if maybe the older heads had larger oil passages or different orifices or something... I haven't stopped searching for more info, and I still haven't found anyone who has done this on a 96 VH45DE... I guess either it can't be done, or everyone just avoids the 96's...

[Q45tech]

Since it is a Federal felony to change OBDII [1996], even though some states don't test.
What happens if you travel to a state or the car is resold in such a state in the future and the government follows the chain of evidence back to YOU.
Emission tampering has no statue of limitations.
Not sure the 10 -15 lb/ft or the equivalent in HP is worth the effort to make a 96 into a 95.

[cbrooks0003]

Ok, if that's the way everyone is here, I'll have to go somewhere else. I re-read my message and, though I was already sure, I never asked about the legality of changing anything on my car. I thought that this was a forum where I read somewhere else about gutting cats, so I didn't think the whether or not what I wanted to do was legal would even come into it. Tampering with any emissions equipment is a federal crime. Including removing EGR valves, gutting cats, using older emissions equipment in a newer car... If it means I can get an answer, here is what everyone wants to hear: <rolling eyes>

The motor and wiring harness is from a 96 model year car, and it is going into a 94 model year car, however the engine, all the sensors, and the wiring harness in the 94 were damaged beyond repair. Since the 96 came with a wiring harness, I plan to change the plug on the harness to the 94 style, and use the cams and vtc solenoids from the 94 motor on the 96, and was wanting to know if there were any mechanical differences that would keep me from doing that without changing the heads...

As far as the gains to cost ration, I wasn't really looking at total numbers gained, but just having even what it already has or a little more moved to the low end. This thing is a dog from a dead stop, and I remember the old Q's used to be able to white smoke the tires and run somewhere in the 15's in the 1/4 mile... I'd be surprised if mine ran in the 17's...

I will say that this forum is the ONLY car enthusiast forum I have ever visited where someone has told me that a performance modification I am asking about can't be done because of federal emissions laws.

[cbrooks0003]

Also, I was thinking that changing the ECU alone would allow me to do some custom tuning. I have all the equipment to burn chips, as a couple of years ago I put a tuned port camaro motor in my 88 chevy pickup. Since it had a 350 and a fairly big cam, and I couldn't find a 350 specific ECU, I just got a 305 ECU and burned a 350 program. I also had to change how the speed was reported to the ecu, as a camaro got its signal from the VSS directly, and the trucks used a different type of signal that came from the cluster.

And, if I were to sell the car, I would put the OBD-II ECU back in... The cams may be different, but as the vtc only activates at high revs, I believe that the ECU will be able to correct for the difference, and normal driving shouldn't be affected. It just may be a little quicker on the bottom than most 96's, but fall flat on its face sooner at higher RPM. If that doesn't work? Oh well, a 96 Q isn't really worth that much anyway, and if I plan to do all this, obviously I plan on keeping it a while... And by the time I'm ready for something different, I really wouldn't lose much if I couldn't sell it, as it would be worth even less...

[Q45tech]

The saving grace is you can replace an older bodied engine with a newer model. " it is going into a 94 model year car".

"The cams may be different, but as the vtc only activates at high revs."

The cams retard at idle to smooth idle and emissions, then go normal [-20degrees] from about 1200 rpm unitl 4400 rpm where they retard again until redline and beyond.

[cbrooks0003]

Ok, so suffice it to say that the car will run like crap if the 96 ecu is used. Except at idle, since it will probably go into limp mode before the cams smooth out again at higher revs. At least from reading the manual I understand that the solenoid is off at idle, then on at 1200... so after 1200 and no vtc, the 96 computer will probably start throwing a bunch of codes. Ok, that's fine. I found a set of complete heads for $250, and if putting the cams and vtc solenoids from those heads in the 96 motor will work (with the 94 ecu), and make the car run like the old Q's, its worth it to me, even if I can't sell the car later. I could probably get more for parts by then anyway, as I plan to keep it a while, and I've read plenty of posts about turbos and nitrous to be pretty confident that the engine at least will always be a sellable item.

[Carl H]

iirc you can just swap the cams and gears into the 96 head and add the solenoids and appropriate wiring to make it work...a customer of mine (who also posts on here) did this exact conversion using older VVT parts in a 96 head to make it VVT compliant.

[gs14racer]

woah carl.. be careful. What your friend is doing is a felony, and you could possibly be indicted as an accomplice.

[Chrispy300]

Well you should be the first to get locked up Jerry, with that non standard engine with modified emissions gear and that BIG FK OFF supercharger :p

Lol!

[Q45tech]

When you look at design graphs for VVT you see that it's primary purpose is to create a smooth idle by reducing overlap from 28 to 8 degrees and to improve torque in the 3,000 to 4500 rpm range so only once in a WOT run does the VVT help...........1st gear launch when rpm get to 3,000 rpm until 4500. FROM THEN ON the VVT stays in the retarded mode since rpms never drop below 4500 in the quarter or to 150 mph.

[holeset]

thought of ditching the factory computer and run a Link G4 or autronic?we got it working mint with a link and it made heaps of difference to the tourque curve especially when boost came on,the Link pretty much was a real basic plug in and runs all the factory sensors,i just had to bugger around with the little drive cog and sensor which i broke when trying to pull apart and had to make a new one,woops.
in NZ emmissions are just based on how much ya vehicle smokes on start up so pretty much anything goes ha ha!
our most common practise is to cut the cats out and scrap them for money.

[Carl H]

if you have a proper consult connection you can enable or disable the vtc at idle...and i must say with it enabled at idle the vh cams something awful mean.

[Infinitiguy19]

Do you have any videos of a VH with a non stock (Louder) exhaust with VVT on at idle?

[Chrispy300]

I'll try and get one this weekend