'96 HardBody won't stay running...HELP PLEASE!!!

[Macks96HB]

I'm in need of some major advice. I did the timing chain upgrade and followed a very detailed DIY that is stickied on a differents forum. Every thing is back together and the truck turns over and fires up..however my truck won't stay running. When I turn the key it fires up and runs strong for about 8 seconds around 3K or 4K RPM and then chokes out when it heads down toward 1K to idle. So basically it dies when its trying to idle. It has never had a new fuel filter, so changed that. Didn't help. It's had a new fuel pump, but I decided to put in a new one anyway. Didn't help...

I don't think it's related to the timing fix, but at this point I'm totally confused.

Any advice would greatly appreciated.

Specs: '96 HB 2WD KA engine 185K miles

I didn't have any issues before the timing chain upgrade and the truck has always been a beast. I think it's something simple but I can't figure it out. I did the timing because of the loud slapping sound on cold crank. I figured the guides had broke so I went into this orginally to just cure that annoying sound.

Help me!!!!!

[RT22]

My guy who did mine said one easy thing to do is to get the timing off at the distributor. The way it drops in if you are off a bit timing will never be right. You need to get engine piston one to top dead center and pop off distributor cap and be sure it is properly aligned. Search for how to do this as I am not sure exact procedure but even if all timing markers were aligned distributor may be off a hair, and also recheck all timing markers. Sounds like you may have miss timed it on reinstall, just a guess but that seems to be something that can happen pretty easily.

[Macks96HB]

My guy who did mine said one easy thing to do is to get the timing off at the distributor. The way it drops in if you are off a bit timing will never be right. You need to get engine piston one to top dead center and pop off distributor cap and be sure it is properly aligned. Search for how to do this as I am not sure exact procedure but even if all timing markers were aligned distributor may be off a hair, and also recheck all timing markers. Sounds like you may have miss timed it on reinstall, just a guess but that seems to be something that can happen pretty easily.

Thanks for your advise. I'm sorta thinking in this same direction. I've been searching on this forum and others all morning. So I'll add TDC to my search list.

So one I get TDC #1 piston, should the dizzy point to the #1 plug firing position also?

[mrecoolgar]

To be sure, timing is off.
Rotor should be at #1 as well.
I had to counter clock my timing chain one tooth on the cam sprocket.

[Macks96HB]

To be sure, timing is off.
Rotor should be at #1 as well.
I had to counter clock my timing chain one tooth on the cam sprocket.

So say I got the timing off on reinstall...now that everything is back on the engine, how do I check this/fix this? Do i need to pull everything back off? I mean EVERYTHING down to the exposed chain? or is there a way to adjust the chain without taking everything back off?

[Macks96HB]

To be sure, timing is off.
Rotor should be at #1 as well.
I had to counter clock my timing chain one tooth on the cam sprocket.

So say I got the timing off on reinstall...now that everything is back on the engine, how do I check this/fix this? Do i need to pull everything back off? I mean EVERYTHING down to the exposed chain? or is there a way to adjust the chain without taking everything back off?

Anybody? Anybody?

[Macks96HB]

Hello!?? Some body, Anybody....

I pulled the codes and got the following:

P0180 Fuel Temp Sensor A Circuit
P0446 Evap Emission System Vent Control Circuit

Would these sensors cause my issues?

[Macks96HB]

[Macks96HB]

Okay...think I've narrowed it down to an issue with my evap control valve and evap canister. Found BBs around the truck. Some said this means my evap / charcoal canister is broke. So i'm going to switch everything out.

Anyone have part #s for the evap can, evap control valve and tank fuel temp sensor?

[malibumarlin]

Well i've done a new timing chain on my 1985 nissan hardbody 2 times. When i finally traded it in, I had 375,000 miles on it.
If you get the timing chain on incorrectly, meaning the piston isn't at TDC on the reinstall, you will experience exactly what you describe: won't idle below 3000 rpm or so. this is because the timing is off, and the valves are banging into the pistons.

Chances are that you have now bent a valve. I speak from experience on this one. The first timing chain replacement, i decided to have the head rebuilt. I bolted everything back on, thought i had TDC. Fired up the engine and just like you said, it would run at 3000 rpm, but stall when the not reving it - wouldn't idle.

I had to pull everything apart, and because of the mistimed engine, i bent a valve. I was lucky i didn't crack the piston. You should have seen the valve.

Your safest bet is to pull it all apart again and redo it... that is if the problem persists. And at this point, you might want to consider pulling the head off and check the valves, and your pistons too.

TDC is best determined by the #1 piston being at it highest point on the stroke. You can pull out the #1 spark plug and insert something in there and watch it rise and fall as you manually turn the crank a full 4 piston revolution. And then you have to determine TDC on the valve head because it too has it's sequence of positions. Then you have to get your distributor on TDC when you insert it back into the block, because it's worm gear has to mesh up inside as well as stay on the TDC position for the rotor to match up with the distributor's #1 mark. All 3 have to be at TDC.

So you see now, how important it is that all 3 (piston, valve head and rotor) all need to be properly aligned at the TDC of the #1 psiton. Otherwise you'll never get the engine right. And again, i can't stress how important it is now that you have been running the engine, to do the right thing, no matter how inconvenient and painful it may be. But pull it all apart again and at this point the valve head too and check it all out. A head rebuild is well worth the money. NAPA did a great job on mine and the price was right. Just pull the head off and take it in somewhere. You'll need a new gasket set and all that good stuff too. You'd be wise to change out the water pump too, seeing that you have it all pulled apart. Soon after my rebuild, the radiator went. So check yours out while its off. May as well do as much now, so you don't have to mess around taking it all apart again later.
Also be sure to clean all your thread holes for the timing cover and such so that you get proper torque readings. A new set of bolts is also a good idea, because chances are you'll snap a few heads off un/re-torquing them all over again. And trust me, that's a real pain in the butt. A tap and die set is a nice thing to have to clean and retap thread holes.

Hope this helps. If you're burned out from the process, take a break, and come back to it with a rested mind and back. Patience is key. Frustration is guaranteed. Ever read the book Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?

[Macks96HB]

Well i've done a new timing chain on my 1985 nissan hardbody 2 times. When i finally traded it in, I had 375,000 miles on it.
If you get the timing chain on incorrectly, meaning the piston isn't at TDC on the reinstall, you will experience exactly what you describe: won't idle below 3000 rpm or so. this is because the timing is off, and the valves are banging into the pistons.

Chances are that you have now bent a valve. I speak from experience on this one. The first timing chain replacement, i decided to have the head rebuilt. I bolted everything back on, thought i had TDC. Fired up the engine and just like you said, it would run at 3000 rpm, but stall when the not reving it - wouldn't idle.

I had to pull everything apart, and because of the mistimed engine, i bent a valve. I was lucky i didn't crack the piston. You should have seen the valve.

Your safest bet is to pull it all apart again and redo it... that is if the problem persists. And at this point, you might want to consider pulling the head off and check the valves, and your pistons too.

TDC is best determined by the #1 piston being at it highest point on the stroke. You can pull out the #1 spark plug and insert something in there and watch it rise and fall as you manually turn the crank a full 4 piston revolution. And then you have to determine TDC on the valve head because it too has it's sequence of positions. Then you have to get your distributor on TDC when you insert it back into the block, because it's worm gear has to mesh up inside as well as stay on the TDC position for the rotor to match up with the distributor's #1 mark. All 3 have to be at TDC.

So you see now, how important it is that all 3 (piston, valve head and rotor) all need to be properly aligned at the TDC of the #1 psiton. Otherwise you'll never get the engine right. And again, i can't stress how important it is now that you have been running the engine, to do the right thing, no matter how inconvenient and painful it may be. But pull it all apart again and at this point the valve head too and check it all out. A head rebuild is well worth the money. NAPA did a great job on mine and the price was right. Just pull the head off and take it in somewhere. You'll need a new gasket set and all that good stuff too. You'd be wise to change out the water pump too, seeing that you have it all pulled apart. Soon after my rebuild, the radiator went. So check yours out while its off. May as well do as much now, so you don't have to mess around taking it all apart again later.
Also be sure to clean all your thread holes for the timing cover and such so that you get proper torque readings. A new set of bolts is also a good idea, because chances are you'll snap a few heads off un/re-torquing them all over again. And trust me, that's a real pain in the butt. A tap and die set is a nice thing to have to clean and retap thread holes.

Hope this helps. If you're burned out from the process, take a break, and come back to it with a rested mind and back. Patience is key. Frustration is guaranteed. Ever read the book Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance?

First, thanks so much for taking the time to write in so much detail. It does mean a lot because I've become very frustrated at this point...partly because the truck was running fine (other than the slapping noise) and has ALWAYS ran great and is ALWAYS dependable.....until I decided to dork around with it. So here I am.....

so a few questions if you wouldn't mind:

1. would the evap issues I described cause my "won't idle issues"?
2. the BBs getting free and winding up on the floor of my garage; do those come out of the charcoal box? could they be "clogging" something up?
3. Say it isn't the evap codes and it is the timing....once I break everything back down, with timing chain exposed, will I need to slip the chain off set everything as you described above and put said chain back on?

I promise I read every "setting top dead center" thread I could find on here and other forums and I thought I got it right the first time, but I am a novice and s**t happens.

Again thanks for the advice and the direction. I'm going to try and make some headway Saturday morning before the wife breaks out the Honey-do list.

[malibumarlin]

I don't know anything about the smog devices, but do know that any part of the vacuum or emmision system being compromised would have an immediate effect on engine idle/performance.

Do you have a repair manual? You should if you don't. It explains in detail the process of replacing the timing chain. In the future, don't fire the engine up after the repair. Turn in through a few revolutions by hand. If the valves hang up on the piston, it'll lock up. BUt since you already did, if the valve stem(s) are bent, then the engine will turn, misleading you to believe all is well, when in fact it may not be the case. You can pull the timing cover off, and the valve cover off. Note that all the sprockets have a little dot depression machined into the face of the sprocket. That's your TDC marks.

To answer # 3: If indeed you discover your TDC timing marks are off. Then it's safe to assume that your valve head needs inspection after running post rebuild. So the answer is Yes. slip the chain off, inspect and reset all TDC marks. But if you go that far, you may as well pull the head. It's not a big deal to do so (with a service manual that is). You've come this far, you may as well go all the way.

[malibumarlin]

what's the verdict? anything new to report?

[Macks96HB]

what's the verdict? anything new to report?

Nope...truck is still on stands but I'm ordering parts today.

[seniyajw]

very nice!

I have the same problem .... I hope this is not the PS pump .......

Thanks a lot brother ... definitaly give this a try ....

[Macks96HB]

very nice!

I have the same problem .... I hope this is not the PS pump .......

Thanks a lot brother ... definitaly give this a try ....

PS pump?

[94 Gasfinder]

How'd it turn out?

[Macks96HB]

Well truck is still on stands...parts are in however. Now I'm trying to find the time to work on her. Work trips, kids and life keeping taking all my time. I'm going to make an really effort to get out there tomorrow.