95 LS400 Owner....how about the Q's?

[nc211]

Well, I hope I don't start a bunch of name calling here, since I'm coming from the "other side". I have a 95 LS400, that's I've had for 2 1/2 years, with 125k miles. She's a great car! But, I am having a very tough time ignoring the depreciation hits on the 02+ Q45s out there. I'm thinking next spring, I might start kicking some tires. I am a Nissan fan in general. I think the best car I've ever owned was a 1992 Sentra SE-R, that was wonderful! I have also had a 2001 Maxima SE, that my LS replaced. The LS's models are very sensitive to vibrations though, and can get a little pricey to repair, even for the DIY types. So, I am thinking of either upping the ante to a 2000 LS400, or a 02' Q45.

My question, and please, be as partial as you can. I understand I'm asking this in the Infiniti forum. What is your take on the LS v the Q models? I think the Q's have a lot more pep, gadgets and bang for the buck. But, it's pretty darn hard to beat the LS400's smooth ride and quiet operation.

Are there any ailing problems with the 02+ Q's that most of them face at around the 100k mark and such? The LS's have suspension bushing failures around that mark, which can get costly! I know, I spent $1700 last year replacing all of mine.

Thanks fella's !!! I greatly apreciate your feed back and time!

[qship96]

hate to say it here,but the 98+ LS is more car than a 97-2006Q in every way...........

[Q_SHIP]

hate to say it here,but the 98+ LS is more car than a 97-2006Q in every way...........

The price differance is huge though as well.

[AZhitman]

Welcome aboard!

Hard to compare a 95 LS to a newer Q. The 95 Q and 95 LS, much easier: The Q pummelled it in every category.

Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong, price-wise, with an 02 Q. It's a lot of bang for the buck, and I think you'll fnid the service is superior to that you'll find at a Lexus dealer.

And don't forget the one thing you WILL have with a Q that you'll never find with a Lexus:

A community like this!

[Rex]

Note: Broad generalizations made here, due to comparing several years/generations.

General consensus is the Q is more a "drivers" car, and the LS is more a to and from car. They both have downsides/drawbacks. The early Q's had plastic backed timing guide issues (being terminal). The LS's have timing belts with significant (maintenance) repair costs.The Q doesn't hold it's value and makes for difficult resale.The LS holds/held it's value making for higher acquisition costs.The Q seems to have less aftermarket perfmormance, but some say it deosn't need it. (there is a twin turbo Q motor or 2 around).The LS seems to have more "aftermarket development".

Just a few thoughts.

Unfortunately (for you), there are fewer F50 (02-06 Q45) owners on NICO.

We're a nice group, hang around awhile and you'll see .

[Q_SHIP]

Honestly, I don't think you can go wrong, price-wise, with an 02 Q. It's a lot of bang for the buck,

Thats why I own an Infiniti, you just can't beat the bang for the buck.

[Q45tech]

you just can't beat the bang for the buck...........................

As long as you understand you must spend some bucks to quiet the bangs!

[AZhitman]

^ Wisdom from The Master.

(Dennis, check your voicemails, I needed you last week!)

[Q_SHIP]

you just can't beat the bang for the buck...........................

As long as you understand you must spend some bucks to quiet the bangs!

It seems as though you feel this way about any car though. Lexus or Infiniti.

[qship96]

there is no doubt the q is cheaper to buy used,just as there is no doubt the ls is in a catagory way above the q,unfortunatly.........

[lino]

The LS has a strong resale value and has a reputation of being solid, reliable, safe, comfortable, etc...and is very boring and missing a soul. Nevertheless, quality is top notch and I'd recommend one to anyone looking, but comparing to a Q, you will pay much, much more if buying used and I can't justify the difference. Drive them both and come back here and give us your impressions of both cars. I'd love to get your first hand opinion.

Best of Luck.

[elwesso]

I really dont think the LS is in a different category than the Q, especially the F50....

first gen LS vs first gen Q- Q wins- better performance, better technology and cheaper... except maybe in styling (especially with 90-93).. The 90-96 Q45 actually compares better to the 2nd gen LS or the GS series.... The 97-01 compares more to the 1st gen LS.... as far as design intent and market. go figure!

Second gen lexus vs second gen Q- Lexus wins with noticeably better handling, build quality, acceleration, and overall fit and finish especially after the UF20IV. Lexus/Toyota is going up as nissan struggles (as it is going bankrupt and being taken over by renault),

3rd LS vs 3rd gen Q- I prefer the Q's interior and features and driveability... but the lexus styling is elegant... I think the jury is out, but youll save about 10 grand by buying a Q...

If your looking at getting an 02+, I would get an 03, there were a few bugs (TSBs) on the 02s that were fixed on the 03s, plus with the 03 premium package you get rear heated reclining seats, front heated and cooled seats, and a bunch of other cool and useless goodies!!

I remember reading the original articles, and lexus sort of went after making a different sort of "cadillac" as far as how the car handled itself (smooth, quiet, and comfy), whereas Infiniti went after BMW to make a car that handled as good if not better with a slightly smoother ride....

I think youll find that the LS and Q are going to be very similar as far as quietness, however, when you consider road noise you need to compare them with similar tires. The LS didnt come with performance tires, whereas the Q did... That makes a difference, both in handling and quietness....

the Q will probably be cheaper to operate in the long run, due to no timing belt to replace... Everything else is going to be the same price or cheaper to replace on the Q vs LS... IM not sure if theres any problems on the 3rd gen LS

Theyre both great cars in their own right... It just depends on what you want, if youd rather have a car that everyone will recognize and assume your loaded, as well as having a really smooth and quiet ride the lexus is the way to go.... IF you want a car that may be a little louder (which it wont be by much, except under acceleration where you want it) and proabbly is a bit more fun to drive, and not everyone at the country club has one, then the Q is the way to go....

[elwesso]

BTW, welcome to NICO!

I assume your on a lexus forum (probably clublexus?), and if you do id like to see if you have a comparison... I saw a comparison of the Q vs the LS on club lexus and they really had no idea what they were talking about when it came to the Q....

[Q45tech]

T3 is unique in that more than half our revenue comes from keeping old Lexus on the road.........a few year back it was the reverse more Infiniti business.

We are waiting for the G35 to get old enough [over 4 years] to have more than 12 customers.........mostly brakes.

Many of the old Q customers have switched to LS........though a few have gone 90Q>94Q>97-01Q.............we have 2=2002+ Q and a few M45/fx45.We get a ton of RX300/Es300 [camary drivetrain ugh].

Hard to judge how any new model hold up until they are 6 years old plus off course feed back from our friendly dealer techs.

(Dennis, check your voicemails, I needed you last week!)No Voicemail message

[Skibane]

But, I am having a very tough time ignoring the depreciation hits on the 02+ Q45s out there.

If you want to see what a depreciation hit REALLY looks like, drop back a year to the '01 (Y33) models!

(BTW, welcome to the forums!)

[Q45man1]

Wecome to NICO. We have the best moderators in the industry and we loved our Q's. I both test drove the 02 LS430 and an 02 Q45 before settling in for the Q. I'm also a nissan fan and this is my 3rd nissan/infiniti vehicle.

I prefer the Q's interior and exterior design. I must say though that the LS feels more luxurious. It has a softer ride but a boring car.

The Q on the other hand is more of a driver's car, much faster and also elegant I may add. I saved also almost $6K and pretty much that goes to an investment. Both cars are reliable and dependable.

Good luck!

[nc211]

Wow, thanks guys for the feedback! I'm a very active member on the lexus owners club forum site, which is where I learned to ask those who own them, for advice and feed back on them. You can't beat the advice from those who actually own the car. Surely better than any magazine or salesman, that's for sure! I've seen just a handful of the 02+ Q's running around, and everytime I see one, I say "now that's a slick looking car!" My LS is a great car, and if I do get rid of it, it will be as close to new as any 95 LS400 on the road. I had a bad vibration issue last year, which promted me to replace all the control arms...no fix...then ball joints and tie rods..no fix...then tires...no fix...then all mounts...still no fix. It turned out to be the driveshaft. I sort of got screwed, and screwed myself in the process. But, since owning the car, I've had the computer replaced "many 95 and 96's have bad computers" by Lexus for free, timing belt, plugs, wires, water pump, thermostat, lower oil pan "walmart stripped the plug so they paid for it", brakes and seafoamed the engine "highly recommend that stuff!". She's a perfect car. But, I still can't ignore that sexy 02+ Q design, and all of those tech goodies you can get.

What I'm most curious about, is how well do they hold up over time? The LS's are pretty reliable, with very few rattles, if any. But, they're also very soft, and absorb the road's bumps through the tires and suspension. The Q's appear to be more sport oriented, which makes me wonder about rattles down the road. Are there any major issues with the engines? The 90-94 LS powersteering pumps fail, and leak onto the alternator, which kills it. Anything like that in the 4.5 V8?

They are both great cars, and definetly have their differences. But at 33 years old, I'm not quite sure I'm ready to stay the course with a soft riding, almost boring ride like the LS. I've still got a good bit of p*ss n' vinager left in my soul. And if I recall, every nissan product I've had, has scared me way before I could ever scare it. The LS? easy to scare.

I guess I need to go for a test drive soon, and see for myself. The one thing I hated about my old maxima was the wind noise around the windows.

Just one more, and I'll stop the 20 questions... the suspension...i noticed they're adjustable "sport v. normal". That looks expensive to fix. We avoid the air suspension on the LS's like the plague! At nearly $1,100 per wheel to replace, most of us just convert over to the normal setup. Can that be done on Q's?

Thanks fellas! Nice to meet another forum of nice people!

PS: Your icons are WAY BETTER than ours on LOC!
Modified by nc211 at 7:11 PM 11/7/2006

[elwesso]

me and you must be 2 of about 15 people that like the F50 styling...

The sport suspension isnt like the LS air suspension. The struts arent that expensive to replace... Well, theyre kinda expensive but not unreasonable (about $200 a pop).... not like the stupid lexus stuff... Really the struts just have a normal and a sport setting, just changes the damping rate, not really "adjustable" like the LS... Its fairly simple and from what i hear it works!!

Theres no major design flaws like you say about the PS/alternator... So far, these cars seem to hold up pretty well... So far, seems like you just gotta keep replacing the stuff that wears out.... Im not aware of anything major that fails, just the MINOR issues on the 02s with the TPS and final drive TSB...

I doubt youll get into any interior quality issues as far as things coming loose and rattling.... unless of course stuff gets broken when you take it apart! Obviously worn suspension parts dont count!

Let me tell you, dont feel like you are hassling us with questions!!!! We'd love to see you convert from the "dark side"..

[Q45man1]

Just like you said the Q is slicker and a sexier car than the LS!! I've owned mine for 2 1/2 years and it is a very solid car. Bulletproof engine and a high speed cruiser. Properly maintained and upgraded/reprogrammed TCM/ECU. I have the premium package with all the goodies (nav, rear camera, shades, reclining rear seats).

We're looking forward for you to join this club soon!

[maxnix]

You know, on http://www.q45.org, or maybe even here there are reprints of Q45 vs. LS reviews by major automotive magazines. Almost unanimously prefer the Q45 as a driver's car. Read and decide.

Two things I prefer about the Q are VLSD and chains for camshaft drives.

That said, read the posts about how to buy a Q45. For improvement differences, I would look at 2003 or later, or be sure that the throttle/TCU update was performed.

To do this, submit the VIN to a friendly Infniti service writer to obtain the Infiniti dealer performed service history, before even looking at the car. In particualr, be sure there is a continuous history of doumented OCI of 3750 miles or less.
Modified by maxnix at 8:40 AM 11/8/2006

[BadQ45t]

Also remember that if you find a 03' you could find one with factory warranty left, the Infiniti Warranty is 5 years 70k on the drivetrain. My brother drives a 96' LS and I drive a 97' Q45. He has spend a boat load on stuff over the last couple of years, people who say the 2nd gen Q45 cannot stand up to the LS have not driven them back to back, they are very similiar. The 3rd gen Q will be a big upgrade but the aftermarket and the first market for matter have given the Q a big thumbs down, so you can find them VERY VERY cheap. I would hold out for a 03 or 04 and looks like your in LA so that is the land of cheap used cars so be hard-ball and steal one from someone, I have driven them and it will be a very noticable upgrade from the LS. The one thing you will find the LS has the Q beat on is the rear seat, yours is going to be much bigger....for some damn reason (for safety they say) the gas tank is in between the rear seat and the trunk making the rear seat about as big as you old Maxima (the seat is quite deep but not as much leg room as it should have) but the interior is very nice. My dad has a 04' LS 430 and the Q doesn't give up anything to the interior but the exterior stylng leaves it up the the beholder (I personally have not been a big fan) and remember you can steal one from someone but they don't have great resell value. I think the 02-05 Q will become the biggest used car value in the US over the next year or so, they drop like a rock, giving plenty of chance for people to get into them very cheap. I say go for it, I have driven one and I'd take one over my Pop's snore-fest o4 LS430, the Q is way more fun!

[Q45tech]

6 years/70k on drivetrain ....................but as we know most problems show up after 120k.

[Peterofdevon]

Buy a 01 to 03 540i.

Forget everything else. Then buy a G50 (90 to 96Q) to tour in/take to the mall/drive in the snow.

Peter

[nc211]

Buy a 01 to 03 540i.

Forget everything else. Then buy a G50 (90 to 96Q) to tour in/take to the mall/drive in the snow.

Peter

I'm not quite brave enough to venture into the German land, or wealthy enough. I love those 540i's though, they look sweeeeet! But scare me to death with repairs. Plus, I've heard some bad things about those 4.0 V8's they've got. I'm not sure what years they were, but many of them had to be completely replaced.

[Peterofdevon]

I'm not quite brave enough to venture into the German land, or wealthy enough. I love those 540i's though, they look sweeeeet! But scare me to death with repairs..

They cost from 22 to 26 with under 45K on the odo. All exceptional cars cost lots to maintain (especially G50s).

Just drive a 540i six speed sport (wes you are to do this homework assignment as well).

Its a great balanced car---not a race beast like an M5 not a grand touring car---its like a cross between a Porsche 911 for drivabilty, a Big Lexus for smoothness and a Honda Accord for being a speed ticket transparent. It molds to your soul and becomes part of you. You drive it...it does not drive you.

Peter

[MattB]

I'm not quite brave enough to venture into the German land, or wealthy enough. I love those 540i's though, they look sweeeeet! But scare me to death with repairs. Plus, I've heard some bad things about those 4.0 V8's they've got. I'm not sure what years they were, but many of them had to be completely replaced.

IIRC the V8 problems were in the early to mid 90s with the Nikasil engine. They're great cars, but like you said repairs are scary. If I was going to get a non-M BMW I'd go for a 2001 740i Sport.

One other car I'd recommend if you're looking at an F50 Q45 is a 2003-2004 M45. They're depreciating like there's no tomorrow and they are awesome cars.

[BlueC]

They cost from 22 to 26 with under 45K on the odo. All exceptional cars cost lots to maintain (especially G50s).

Just drive a 540i six speed sport (wes you are to do this homework assignment as well).

Its a great balanced car---not a race beast like an M5 not a grand touring car---its like a cross between a Porsche 911 for drivabilty, a Big Lexus for smoothness and a Honda Accord for being a speed ticket transparent. It molds to your soul and becomes part of you. You drive it...it does not drive you.

Peter

I want to test drive one, but i'm afraid i'll like it too much. I'm planning on waiting a little longer since I just bought a home, by then the prices should be lower for a nice 02' or 03'. I just love the styling and hear nothing but good things about those cars.

[maxnix]

I just love the styling and hear nothing but good things about those cars.

Especially from the BMW shop. I have a friend with a 2001 or so. Spends way more time in the than my 1995 G50. I like to ride in it (but not for a long trip nor in the back seat, give me the Q45), but I am glad I don't own one.

Saw a real nice 94 740i with just under a 100K on it a couple of years ago that BMW just had to drop a new engine into under warranty.

[elwesso]

I would say, overall, with BMW mechanical failures arent as common as electrical failures.... Thats what im scared about: german electronics....

Remember the post about the V12 BMW (M60) buildup. Car had been abused for 160k (sludge on heads) yet the bottom end looked pretty good...

[maxnix]

I would say, overall, with BMW mechanical failures arent as common as electrical failures.... Thats what im scared about: german electronics.......

Yeah, it's like Bosch was taken over by Lucas. On my friend's 540i Sport, it has mostly been mechanical and a lot of head scratching by the techs.