'95 240SX SE - Disappointing Brake Performance

[gtd65]

Hi Folks,Not been around on this forum for quite a while as I've been over in Europe (NL) for the past year and a half

I'm currently back in FL and doing a bit of maintenance on our trusty 240SX (rear strut replacement) which is going very well (I'll do a photo write up if anybody wants to see how it's done?) but I'm delayed due to Advance Auto Parts telling me the replacement "strut bellows" would be here today but they won't be until tomorrow afternoon it turns out .

Got a great deal on the strut inserts at RockAuto who do have some great prices on certain items

Anyway back on topic, ever since I've had my 240SX, which is since October 2001, I've never been very enthuisiastic about the braking performance - I'd describe it as uneventful to be frank.

Now this car had all of the discs/rotors and pads replaced a not long before I headed to the Netherlands and at the time thought the lack of improvement in braking performance might be due to them needing to be bedded in. My GF has been running around in the car and though there's not a great deal of miles been put on the car the brakes should at least be bedded in but are still pretty crap if the truth be told.

I've not actually driven another 240SX to compare performance but they perform well below any expectations and are certainly not as good as all the other cars I've driven in recent years.

Being a Florida car the vehicle is completely rust free and the calipers etc all work perfectly - what should I be looking at firstly to determine why the braking performance is so miserable?

First thoughts that come to my mind would be expansion of the rubber brake hoses?

Any ideas guys/girls?

Thanks in advance

[gtd65]

No ideas then?

[ashoe]

Your 240 has poor brake performance because the 240 came with poor brakes. Hawk hps pads will help some. SS lines will improve feel a bit. I switched to q45 front brakes on mine... they will lock up at 65 if i hit em too hard. They use the same lines and mounting locations. Just bolt right up.

[azienbabyboi]

yeah the 240x uses a single piston slide caliper its fairly weak. as he mention pad and stainless steel lines would help, i also swapped out my brakes for the 300zx break and ss lines. works pretty well with good tires to delay lock up.

[gtd65]

Your 240 has poor brake performance because the 240 came with poor brakes. Hawk hps pads will help some. SS lines will improve feel a bit. I switched to q45 front brakes on mine... they will lock up at 65 if i hit em too hard. They use the same lines and mounting locations. Just bolt right up.

I find it hard to believe that the brakes for a coupe were poor from the factory but then again I've only driven my own 240SX so I'll have to take your word for it.

I've owned other Nissan models that were not sporting at all and fitted with discs at the front and drums at the rear (UK - Nissan Bluebird U11) which braked with excellent performance.

I recently bought my mother a (also UK model) Kia Picanto which came with discs all round and when you put the brakes on it's like you just dropped anchor! The braking was so good they dropped the rear discs in favour of drums for the next model revision!

[jaCkee]

when you say poor braking performance do you mean the whole brake system itself or the pads and rotors ?

from what i had learn im not sure if this would solve your problem but use sand paper and sand down your brake pads and rotor cause if you didnt do so when you first got them you probably been going metal to metal kind of feelilng even tho the pads are new, give them a good rub around and put it back and see how it feels, i learned this in brake class in school and it works

[Crazyirish]

from what i had learn im not sure if this would solve your problem but use sand paper and sand down your brake pads and rotor cause if you didnt do so when you first got them you probably been going metal to metal kind of feelilng even tho the pads are new, give them a good rub around and put it back and see how it feels, i learned this in brake class in school and it works

Sandpaper on pads and rotors? Are you serious?

OP, don't do that (unless your name happens to be smokey yunick). As far as the 240's stock braking performance, yes, it kinda sucks. Decent brake pads like the Hawk HPS mentioned above will help along with proper pad bed in procedures. q45 or 300zx brake upgrades are generally said to be the best bet though. The stock brakes are adequate at best, but with stock style pads are extremely prone to brake fade.

[gtd65]

I've done the old sandpaper routine before on some old motorcycles I used to own many moons ago - whether or not it actually made any difference I'm not sure but if it did the effect was pretty short lived to be honest.

You can actually get the car to lock up the wheels - it's more that lack of feel or bite to the brakes - you have to press the pedal very hard to acheive that.

In most cars that I drive, you just need a very light touch on the pedal and you get instant feedback, I suppose the brakes feel somewhat "wooden"?

When I replaced the pads and rotors in 2007, I actually bought the recommended pads (I forget the brand now). I expected that the new brakes would take a bit of time to bed in - the brakes felt the same as they did before the new pads and rotors were fitted which was disappointing to say the least...

The whole braking circuit was also completely bled with fresh fluid throughout.

What is it about the standard brakes that makes them such poor performers - is it the brake servo/booster that's underpowered

So if the calipers were replaced from another model all my troubles would be solved?

[Crazyirish]

I believe the small rotor size combined with the size and displacement of the caliper pistons is what makes the 240's brakes a little weak. I think they would be fine on a geo metro. For some info on the 300zx upgrade, check out http://www.importnut.net/300zxbrakeswap.htm

The q45 upgrade supposedly produces good results as well. I understand that Nismo offered it as a big brake upgrade for the 240. (that can still be purchased new from frsport.com) I have heard that this upgrade doesn't require changing the master cylinder, but some have said that a z31 master cylinder complements the q45 swap.

I'm still on the fence as to what I'm going to do, but I am leaning towards 300zx.

[gtd65]

Just had a quick read through that article and found this part interesting:

Please note, there are multiple combinations of parts that will give you the results you are looking for. A brake booster from either a 300zx or an automatic equipped 240 will give more assist requiring less pedal effort. I have received emails from people that complained about the pedal effort being too high when using the 17/16" MC. Using the smaller MC's. or bigger boosters will help reduce pedal effort while maintaining the better pedal feel of the upgrade.

Also, you may want to consider using a 15/16" MC (if you had the 7/8") for a mild improvement with no modifications necessary.

I'll need to post a similar question over on one of the UK 200SX sites to ask about the brakes fitted to the UK models - unless anybody here knows if the brake system setup is identical?

When I think back to my old '85 Bluebird (Stanza in the US?) the brakes were excellent - I'm sure the brake setup couldn't have been any better in theory compared to the 240SX but the amount of effort required to pull the car to a quick stop is certainly higher than anything else I've driven in recent years.

[azienbabyboi]

the 300zx swap well put it this way. i've done it on both my 240 s13 and s14. only swapped the front and added ss lines. they stop alot faster and resist brake fade better. bmc is optional for brake pedal feel, but its not needed to do the swap both my cars run on the stock bmc and its fine however the brake peddal does travel the same distance thus the feel is still about the same, but you can deffinetly feel the difference in the braking force.

the feel that you are talking about, tap on the brakes and u can feel it stoping like crazy. well thats pretty much the whole brake system. for example i have a lexus is300 and when u press on it stops like life and death. because the system is has abs and brake assist which helps the feel. imo feel is feel, i say braking force and fade resistance is what matters IMO

but good luck with what you plan to do.

[95jordan240]

thanks for the tips...ive noticed that they are kinda weak and plannin on upgrading them now..

[m240sxDrifter]

hey if you wanna save a lilo more money, instead of Z32 or Q45. U can go with J30. Works just as good. A lot cheaper. I got mine off of ebay for $ 80