95 240 s14 stupid idle problem after removing chain guides

[orgnika_875]

okay, there's lots of posts on this one, my problem is sort of unique to them all tho.
just got this car last week, had a nasty timing chain rattle, i took everything apart, removed the 2 upper timing chain guides, and put everything back together, started the car, seemed to run fine, so i shut it off and helped a friend with his benz. when i go to leave, car starts up fine, i back it out of the garage slowly (low clearance off the hoist) and put it in drive to leave, instantly RPMs drop and sputter and sounds like it's missing and the car shakes. so i nurse it back to to the dorms, so i can read about it.

1) now, when the engines cold, it'll idle just fine at 1100, i can give it a little gas, it'll miss a little bit.
2) once the engine warms up, idles like sh*t, fluctuates between 400-600, sometimes even drops as low as 200. and misses and sputters heavily between 1-3k RPMs while i'm driving but the car doesn't buck.
3) a lot have said "unplug the MAF" so i did, then started it up, waited for it to get warm, missed once or twice but overall held a good idle at 850RPMs
4) with the maf plugged in, the engine bay smells like a snowmobile, strong exhaust gassish smell. and will hold the worst idle i've seen in years.
5) pulled the plugs, they're covered in a white soot, cheap-o bosch plugs where the electrode sits flush with the ceramic, car ran fine with them before
6) before removing my chain guides, the car ran awesome, no problems aside from that god-awful rattle in the valve cover.
i thought "maybe my spark timing is off", messed with the distributor for 3 hours last night, turing it spline by spline, no luck, same problems.

so, keep in mind, i have already checked the codes, gave me a 55 off the rip. the car ran just fine before i did the work to remove those guides. so i'm assuming all my electronics are in order.
things i didn't do, didn't put RTV on the upper chain cover, didn't have any left in the shop. reused the VC gasket, cause no where in upper michigan is gonna stock them. so, if i'm getting a vacuum leak from either of those. would that make the car bog/loose power/miss/idle poorly/and smell like gas.
i consider my self pretty good with engines, but i'm pretty lost with this one? i expected maybe some burnt oil smell from no RTV and reusing a gasket, but, this is pretty odd, any help from someone who considers them selves a 240-wiseman would be very much appreciated

[orgnika_875]

the Bosch platinum plugs in my car, suck, the electrode sits inside the cieramic, just picked up new ones today (autolite double platinum) but i'm on a budget, also just ordered a new valve cover gasket, when i get a chance i'll pick up some new plug wires but i wanna hold out for NGK's. the ones on it now look factory.

now, drove the car a little bit more (highway to walmart and back) she didn't do to bad, it only misses around 2K once i get above 2 1/2K it seems to run normally, and when i pull up to a stop light it starts to bog and flutter spiratically around the 300-600 range, i can counter act this by sliding it into nuetral as i come to a stop.
also, if i "big-toe" the pedal, little to no miss-fires, 15-30% throttle, miss-fires hard, anything beyond that, car picks up and doesn't miss-fire.

that being said, anyone have any ideas? if these new parts don't clear it up, i'll be replacing the distributor cap and rotor when i get a chance. Even if no one chimes in to help, and i'm left on my own to throw parts at it till it runs right, i'll keep this posted up to date to help out the next person with this issue. cause i know first hand how much it sucks when none of the advise in other forums is whats going wrong.

[OutToWinPAHC]

What kinda miles? I wonder if the guides were just adding that little tension on slack. Have you tried setting the motor to see if she jumped teeth. It could be a tooth off and if so its time for a new tensioner, guide and chain.

[orgnika_875]

hey thanks for the reply man, when i removed the guides, i played with the tensioner a while, squirted it with WD-40 twice and pushed it in and out till if moved freely, seemed to be in working order, i was paranoid about it skipping a tooth so i played with the chain a lot to see if i could work up enough slack to skip a link, didn't happen, it held fairly tight. theres 160,xxx miles on which i'm assuming is the original engine. the cars starting to idle better, now when it's cold (right after start up) i can slide it into DRIVE, and it'll idle 850 even and hold steady with no miss-fires, but once it warms up boggs and lags at idle when i come to a stop, i'll have a new VC gasket tomorrow, i read on the BMW forums a leaking VC gasket could cause a lean condition and a poor idle with miss fires. i'm hoping this is my problem. we'll find out tomorrow or the next day

ps. plugs where covered in a white soot, chart says it's running lean to look like that, i'm fairly sure one of my cheap-o bosch plugs is a goner. once i get everything together i'll report back with the results for everyone

[orgnika_875]

also, i checked, Nissan dis-continued the upper chain guides for the 240sx, apparently they cause more problems than they prevent. so removing them shouldn't of allowed me to skip a tooth, unless the chain had some mad stretch to it.

[OutToWinPAHC]

a vc leak can do that due to PCV but set the motor TDC and check

[orgnika_875]

when i get it into the shop tomorrow i'll set it to TDC and re-position my distributor to cyl#1, while i got the valve cover off so i can see if my cam lobes are in the right position. but what's PCV? some of the acronyms i can pick up with common sense, but others are just baffling to me, there should really be a thread dedicated to explaining those haha.

[compactfean]

First, neither bosch or autolite belong in there. Id recommend regular copper core or the nickel plated ngk plugs (v power). pcv stands for positive crankcase ventilation. A simple google search would show what it is and how it works. The way nissan pcv valves work i highly doubt it would cause a large enough vacuum leak to run that lean. A bmw on the other hand you can't even pill the dipstick without that car running like crap (as well as some volvos, mercedes,.etc) as for your idle, id pull the iacv and clean it with carb clean, reinstall and get car up to running temp, and then adjust the screw on the iacv until your idle is around 850-900. Then shut car off, disconnect tps and then restart. Adjust idle (if needed) and then adjust timing with a timing light.

[orgnika_875]

don't have a timing light, shop has a hoist and basic tools, i need the car to make it 3 miles 3 days a week for class, on nov. 20, i need it to go 110 miles home, where i'll be garaging it next to my dads 240 it for the winter. next summer the cars more than likley not gonna be in use either, once i get working again, i'm gonna pull an engine out of an SC300 (2JZ) and build it, get a 350z transmission and fit it, i got big plans, but they're a long ways off for now, i don't really wanna pour money into the KA. just want it to run decent for the next 20 days.

[orgnika_875]

okay, so i got the new VC gasket on, and the new plugs in. still got this idle problem. it got a little better, it doesn't drop below 500 now in neutral or park, but it surges still. car still idles at 1100 cold, and 1100 when i'm not giving it any throttle while i'm moving, but the more of a stop i come to, the worse the idle gets. almost to the point of stalling.
i set my #1 piston to TDC, and everything was in time, cam lobes, distributor all of it. chain had good tension to it.
so, how do i get at this IACV to remove, clean and set it up higher.
also, i get a little bit of a raw gas smell. maybe an injector?
still i'm stumped as to how everything was in good working order, and after removing the chain guides, refuses to live stably.

[orgnika_875]

okay did a little research found a good write up on Zilvia.net about the IACV, i'll pull that tomorow and clean it and set it up a little higher see if that helps, i was wondering tho, is that something that could just go bad or get clogged on the spur of the moment?

also, still wondering about the injectors, and that gas/snowmobile smell, my cars throwing no codes for anything

[OutToWinPAHC]

Now your sure the timing is good I would check the maf, set the ign timing and TPS and see wat does.

[orgnika_875]

i'll go over all that again tomorow, i pulled the IACV, which is a b**** by the way, cleaned it to new, and set the screw out as wide open as it would go, and replaced all the O-rings on my injectors for the hell of it, ran good while cold, no misfires, put it in drive, while cold, idle dropped to 600, but didn't surge. put it back in park, let it get to Op Temp. and it idled fine, sat at 950, put it in drive, dropped to 500, put it back in park to go look at the engine while it was running while i was looking at the engine, slowly worked it's way back into the misfires, then started to run even worse than before, now it actually does stall out without catching it's self, gettin' frustrated

but tomorow, i'll check the timing, again, set the distibutor, again, and figure out how to set the TPS, and see about the MAF, and get back to you guys

[orgnika_875]

i didn't get a chance to get it into the shop tonight, but, i was a little concerned about how poorly it ran before, so i went out and started it, and just sat in it while it idled, the idle changed a little bit when it got up to operating temp. but not much, 900 in park, 550-600 in drive, so i figured i'd give it 15minuets of idleing see if the problem showed up, it did.
it just randomly starts to bogg down and want to die.
heat seems to be a catalyst for this problem, but for better or worse is improving i guess with everything i do cause at least now i can run a little while at op-temp with just a low idle issue in drive, before it starts to bogg and sputter.

but i got some questions

1) if it was wrong timing on the upper chain, the car would idle like classic muscle from the start wouldn't it?
2) the car was running great before, with the TPS where it currently sits. is it possible for this to get disrupted?
3) i live in a really small town, the auto parts store, doesn't carry MAF cleaner, they didn't even know what it was, would TB&airintake cleaner work, if not they have some generic "electric sensor" cleaner?
4) also if this were a MAF problem wouldn't my car not rev past 2k-2.5k?

[compactfean]

If your timing chain/s are off it will rather backfire like a mofo, or when you step on the gas the engine won't rev.
The tps can go out, so yes it can cause
problems without touching it (test it).
The electric sensor cleaner will work perfect for cleaning the maf. As far as the maf problem, only the lucky ones get that symptom. I've had maf issues that ranged from that, to bad gas mileage, to a no start issue. Test it.

[orgnika_875]

alright, starting to get confused now, 30 outside, so i let the car get to op-temp, usually where it'll stumble, but it didn't. I reved it up a few times and it settled right back to 900rpms, put it in drive, and the idle drops to about 600, the engine barley shakes, and it's not surging, drove it to the shop, didn't drop below 900rpms at a complete stop in drive the whole way, seeme to be running a bit better, i let it sit outside the shop and idle for a while waiting for the missfires to start, and they did, i did a drop test with the plugs, and injectors, problem seems to be #2cly injector is "partially" going out. but, cars still not throwing any codes.

took off the valve cover, lined up all my timing marks, everything is in place, no jumped teeth.
replaced the D/rotor&cap got the car in time, no timing light just kinda guess and test as best i can with the forums. but seems to be in working order.
replaced the smaller O-ring on cly#2, (had a slight slit at the top)
and cleaned my MAF with generic MAF cleaner i picked up a few towns over, MAF looked almost spotless new before i did tho.
and i didn't really get a differance with anything aside from that O-ring.

i'm getting white smoke, smells kinda like raw gas/snowmobile (head-G isn't blown, still got all my coolant)
the car idles fine in park/neutral now 900rpms, drive 600rpms, and after 2 blocks of driving i can stop with the car in drive and it'll idle at 900.
it misses a lot less at idle than it did before, mostly only in drive now, could a fuel injector only go half bad, and stick open/dump extra fuel in occasionally/ or not deliver enough fuel maybe?
and, does the ECU tell the fuel injectors to run differantly between park & drive?
thanks for the help guys, slowly but surley this is being taken care of haha

[OutToWinPAHC]

Something is a miss and it started after you changed something so go back and look at everything. Anything you unplugged check the connectors and pins and clean them up. Check all hoses and lines for cracks. Certainly try a MAF, set the TPS as per the FSM, Set the timing as per the FSM, check wires, check gaps.

[orgnika_875]

everything checks out, my cars steadily improving on it's own? if i drive it around a little, i can come to a complete stop, sit there for a good while, and have no bogging while i'm still in drive until i go to take off, boggs between 1500-2000rpms, other than that, she's running much better? i haven't replaced anything on my fuel system yet, i was thinking when i can about picking up a new fuel filter and running some injector cleaner through it, what do you guys think?

here's a youtube link to get an idea:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufeL_WGJ ... e=youtu.be

[kreske]

Hey man, Not sure if our problems are the same but I had the same symptoms. I have a 95 240sx automatic, and after changing my radiator and thermostat/water pump I had horrible idle and would only start to have issues after the motor is warmed up. Turns out that my wiring connections on my CAS were a little loose and had a little corrosion on the leads. I cleaned them up and put some di-electric grease on the connection and she runs like a champ now. Its worth checking out, who knows it might be that simple for you too!!

[orgnika_875]

things i've replaced thus far
spark plugs (autolight)
plug wires (NGK)
OEM rotor&cap
cleaned my MAF
removed and cleaned the IACV
just put in a 300zx fuel filter today old fuel filter was nasty inside, blew it out with the air hose, just black
a mobil1-5w-30 oil change today as well.
replaced every "clip" with a hose clamp, went over the whole engine with carb cleaner, no vacuum leaks

for my car to run as well as it does now, the IACV screw needs to be all the way out, and the distributor needs to be fully advanced, change either and the sputtering is back in action.
car still smokes white, a lot, smells like gas, i'm running rich.

i need to replace an injector O-ring again, so i'll change them all again, just to be sure.
still haven't messed with my TPS, or CPS maybe i'll try n get to this tomorow when i go over all my electricle connections, checked my grounds, looks like an aftermarket kit, they're pretty beefy
car stumbles as soon as it goes into drive, give it a little gas, it'll idle forward at 1k-rpms, and i can stop completly and it'll hold idle, so
idles at 1500 on a cold start, sputters maybe 2 or 3 times right after start up then doesn't at idle anymore, sputters and misses when first put into drive, sputters and misses while taking off between 1.5-2k-rpms
if i "big toe" the throttle, doesn't miss till i hit that range, if i just get on it at 1/4-1/2 throttle right away, it seems to drive a little bitter, WOT takes a second to work up, doesn't seem to have the power it sould

[orgnika_875]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wp454qSD ... e=youtu.be

messed with my fuel injectors, got really bad, then got even better than before? really just gettin' surprised with this thing, i'm starting to think it's got a mind of it's own
i'll have a video up of the miss fire driving in a little bit here
thanks for the help guys - slowly but surely

[orgnika_875]

here the "leaving" the shop video" it's doing better, but, still not the same

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVCGzqTC ... e=youtu.be

[orgnika_875]

UPDATE::
MY STORY:
car was running fairly good after the fuel injectors got hoses with carb cleaner, then i put a few miles on it, maybe 3 haha, and i just got to the top of the big hill to the street i need to turn on for the parking lot. started to bog and miss hard, so i was kinda on a down hill when i turned and managed to coast it all the way to a parking spot, and i shut it down right away, knowing my #1 cly. is now pissing into my freshly changed oil. i looked at my mirror to catch a glimpse of the cloud it produced last time it did this, this time it was thicker, black in the center, like a black hole, trying to suck more money out of my pocket haha
THE ENGINES STORY:
pulled the plug - #1 clyinder flooded out
cylinders 2-3-4 where all dry and still functioning
spark plugs are all dark brown/black,
orings on the injector appear to be fresh out of the package, cause they are haha, i removed and inspeced them, no cracks splits anything
QUICK QUESTION & WHAT I"M THINKING CAUSE I"M A "COLLEGE STUDENT", (POLITICALLY CORRECT, FOR POOR)
is it possible for and injector to stick open every once in a while, like work for a little while, then just s*** out.
I'm gonna let this thing soak in carb cleaner for a few hours then switch it over to a 50/50 of gas and injector cleaner and let it sit a few days, maybe shaker er' around some, hit it with the air hose.
IF YA GOT BALLS, GO FOR IT AND GET BACK OT US!
I Found a write up about removing the injector screens, "snugly" put it in a vice, and use a screwdriver and a pair of pliers to spin that plastic screen ring until you work it down, 240's vary, some have 2 holes inside, some have 4, the ones with 2, carb cleaner straw fits snug i didn't try this, nor am i going to, but i found a write up on it, and it sounds like the only part you can take off

[orgnika_875]

UPDATE:

removed all my fuel injecotrs, soaked them in carb cleaner for 2 days, cars running much better, holds idle everywhere now, bogs when i shift to drive, but catches right away, but still has an intermittent misfire.

0-15% Throttle =just fine
15-25% Throttle = misfires hard
25-WOT= runs just fine

still confused, with everything i've replaced and cleaned, this should have been fixed. any ideas?

[compactfean]

Ground on thr beck of the valve cover good?

[orgnika_875]

i take it off every time i remove the valve cover, the ground wire cover looks to be in good shape, but i'll check that out tomorrow, i've cleaned the spot where it connects just never checked the whole wire it's self, thanks for pointing me in a direction to look

[dohmann777]

Do these thing have a distributor cap and or rotor because my Honda has same issues due to moisture under the cap And or bad plug wires seems you checked most stupid stuff which in most cases is exactly what it is just my 2 cents

[orgnika_875]

yep, i've replaced everything except my Coolant Temp Sensor, problem progressivly got better, not never fully back to normal, i drove the car 120 miles home at 70mph, on the misfire. car made it, only in a nissan