I recently purchased a low mileage 1994 Q45 (47,000 miles). It had excessive latteral roll (side-to-side) when I first got it. I have since replaced both struts with OEM parts, replaced the upper links, bought new YOKO tires and had an alignment at the Infiniti dealer (the tensioner rods don't appear to be leaking).
The car still rolls bad enough to give me motion sickness. The roll comes after a bump or un-even part of the road is driven over. You hit the bump, the car naturally bounces up and then down and several hundred feet later the car rolls left and then to the right. With more severe bumps, the steering wheel actual turns in my hands.
It was suggested that I also replace the front sway bar bushings, add a Stillen strut tower brace and replace my new Yokos with Michelin Pilot H4 tires which I will do next week.
Any other suggestions or experiences with this problem?
Thanks,Jerry SmithAlice, Texas[email protected]
94 Q45 excessive latteral roll
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maxnix
- Posts: 22627
- Joined: Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:11 pm
- Car: 1995 Infiniti Q45
1995 Infiniti Q45t
2000 Infiniti Q45
Excessive roll
Well, if you purchased the correct Yokohamas (say AVS dB) in the correct size, and are running them at the correct pressure, I would suspect the rubber mounting in your roll bars and end links.
Maybe you should have your steering rack mount inspected, but I would assume it is too early to have problems. No wreck repair damage to the front or rear end?
Do install a transmission cooler after doing a flush and pan drop with screen replacement. You can probably extend your transmission significantly by replacing the flluid with Mobil 1 ATF. South Texas heat will cook ATF instantly in the summer. Don't go to the Austin dealer, because while nice, they are very ignorant of long term maintenance.
If it is a standard and neither a t nor an a, then look at http://www.infinitipartsusa.com and look at their a rear bar kit, of search the Infiniti General forum for links on a custom 22mm bar that has become available. Lots of info in archives about tuning the Q by Q45tech. Read them to see the light.
By the way, most on this board go with the Tokico blues on the rear, if not all four.
Maybe you should have your steering rack mount inspected, but I would assume it is too early to have problems. No wreck repair damage to the front or rear end?
Do install a transmission cooler after doing a flush and pan drop with screen replacement. You can probably extend your transmission significantly by replacing the flluid with Mobil 1 ATF. South Texas heat will cook ATF instantly in the summer. Don't go to the Austin dealer, because while nice, they are very ignorant of long term maintenance.
If it is a standard and neither a t nor an a, then look at http://www.infinitipartsusa.com and look at their a rear bar kit, of search the Infiniti General forum for links on a custom 22mm bar that has become available. Lots of info in archives about tuning the Q by Q45tech. Read them to see the light.
By the way, most on this board go with the Tokico blues on the rear, if not all four.
Hi Brian,
The tires are Yokohama YK420's 225 60 R15.
I could not seem to find the rear sway bar that you suggested. Will keep looking.
My wife just drove the car for the first time and she could not believe how badly it rolled. She started getting sick after the first couple of miles. This is not a small problem. The instability is VERY obvious.
The tires are Yokohama YK420's 225 60 R15.
I could not seem to find the rear sway bar that you suggested. Will keep looking.
My wife just drove the car for the first time and she could not believe how badly it rolled. She started getting sick after the first couple of miles. This is not a small problem. The instability is VERY obvious.
Re: 94 Q45 excessive latteral roll
fasride wrote:in my hands.
It was suggested that I also replace the front sway bar bushings, add a Stillen strut tower brace and replace my new Yokos with Michelin Pilot H4 tires which I will do next week.
Any other suggestions or experiences with this problem?
Thanks,Jerry SmithAlice, Texas[email protected]
Congrats on your new ride! This is a perplexing problem. Don't worry, some really knowlegdable folks will chime in soon with definitive things to look for. However, I believe that many Q owners use the Yokos so save yourself some dough at least on the tires (providing they have the right load rating). A 94 Q with 47k! Nice! What model is it? "A"s have active suspension that can be tricky.
Hi Mike,
It does not have the Active Suspension option. Also, it had the problem from the very beginning, before I replaced the old tires.
Since you asked, my car is nearly perfect inside with only a few surface scratches outside. It has 47K miles, is dark green with beige interior and the leather has no scuff marks at all. It was owned by a lady driver from Houston, TX.
I saw the car on E-Bay, called the seller and flew to Houston to buy the car. It was raining hard when I tried it out and I realized the ride was not right but figured I could have anything fixed that might be wrong with it. The extra clean interior sold me on the car.
I am beginning to think I made a big mistake. The car I was going to buy was a 1998 Q45 with under 50K miles, also in Houston. I figured the 1994, with about the same mileage but for half as much money, was a wise choice. It is starting to prove not the case.
I don't see much written about the '98 models. I know they have less horsepower, but are they un-desirable other than for that reason?
My reason for buying this car was a need for a comfortable, quiet and dependable long range car. I average about 40-50,000 miles per year, traveling all over Texas. My hearing is bad so a car with a very quiet interior and an excellent radio was a must. Any ambient road noise cancels out most spoken words for me. A car like the Q45 seemed to be the answer.
I have gone thru a Crown Victoria and a Mercury Marquis over the past 5 years and wanted something different. I had hoped the Q45 was it. We will see..............
Thanks again for the input,Jerry
It does not have the Active Suspension option. Also, it had the problem from the very beginning, before I replaced the old tires.
Since you asked, my car is nearly perfect inside with only a few surface scratches outside. It has 47K miles, is dark green with beige interior and the leather has no scuff marks at all. It was owned by a lady driver from Houston, TX.
I saw the car on E-Bay, called the seller and flew to Houston to buy the car. It was raining hard when I tried it out and I realized the ride was not right but figured I could have anything fixed that might be wrong with it. The extra clean interior sold me on the car.
I am beginning to think I made a big mistake. The car I was going to buy was a 1998 Q45 with under 50K miles, also in Houston. I figured the 1994, with about the same mileage but for half as much money, was a wise choice. It is starting to prove not the case.
I don't see much written about the '98 models. I know they have less horsepower, but are they un-desirable other than for that reason?
My reason for buying this car was a need for a comfortable, quiet and dependable long range car. I average about 40-50,000 miles per year, traveling all over Texas. My hearing is bad so a car with a very quiet interior and an excellent radio was a must. Any ambient road noise cancels out most spoken words for me. A car like the Q45 seemed to be the answer.
I have gone thru a Crown Victoria and a Mercury Marquis over the past 5 years and wanted something different. I had hoped the Q45 was it. We will see..............
Thanks again for the input,Jerry
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nadirgholi
- Posts: 55
- Joined: Sun Aug 04, 2002 5:27 pm
- Car: 94' Q45t- 236K miles.
90'-96' Qs are pretty tight rides, especially for a luxury sedan. One of the major reason I like them. I find 97' and later models much softer. I don't like soft rides.
If you are looking for quieter ride, Yokohama tires certainly won’t help, especially AVS dB. They are pretty laud, but I have to admit under a heavy car like Q they do very good in the rain.
For some reason (I would guess because of Q's negative cambers) Yokohama AVS dB does develop what tire folks call feathering which causes an annoying wobbling noise when you drive.
All four tires have developed feathering and it took less than 1000 miles for the problem to surface. I have checked my alignment twice and they are within Q's specs.(cambers: -.8 and -1.00) I have over 16K on them and have rotated and balanced them four times already. They would last for another 20K with timely rotation and balance, but I am ready for another set of tires. Other than in the rain, these YOHOHAMA AVS dB tires suck.
If you are looking for quieter ride, Yokohama tires certainly won’t help, especially AVS dB. They are pretty laud, but I have to admit under a heavy car like Q they do very good in the rain.
For some reason (I would guess because of Q's negative cambers) Yokohama AVS dB does develop what tire folks call feathering which causes an annoying wobbling noise when you drive.
All four tires have developed feathering and it took less than 1000 miles for the problem to surface. I have checked my alignment twice and they are within Q's specs.(cambers: -.8 and -1.00) I have over 16K on them and have rotated and balanced them four times already. They would last for another 20K with timely rotation and balance, but I am ready for another set of tires. Other than in the rain, these YOHOHAMA AVS dB tires suck.
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Q45tech
- Moderator
- Posts: 14296
- Joined: Tue Apr 30, 2002 3:19 am
- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
All directional tires are bad [for feathering] except the Michelin Pilot V/Z4. [and after 15k these sound like you are frying bacon].
Buying tires that last more than 15-20k means you learn to put up with it .
A non directional Pilot H4 is nice because you can flip them on the rims every 6-10k and reverse wear the feathering but you still need to dump them after 20k when they turn hard.
Most tires are not built strong enough to survive on a Q......rememeber Michelin is a French company and the Germans would not use it unless they had too! .......MB/heavy BMW/heavy Audi.
Saw a Lexus LS 400 with well know premium [Hrated] Gyear model less than 1 year old === all the tires not the wheels required between 68 and 122 grams of weights to balance a Michelin seldom uses over 20 most 5-15 even after 2 years.
Feathering is not caused as much by camber as it is toe and tire block squirm....rack bushings, tie rod ends [inner and outer], improper rack preload, thrust angle and rear suspension steering from bad bushings.
An 8 year old 94Q even with 47k will have all the rubber bushings destroyed from heat and ozone!Install a front strut tower brace will do wonder along with new shocks all around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Buying tires that last more than 15-20k means you learn to put up with it .
A non directional Pilot H4 is nice because you can flip them on the rims every 6-10k and reverse wear the feathering but you still need to dump them after 20k when they turn hard.
Most tires are not built strong enough to survive on a Q......rememeber Michelin is a French company and the Germans would not use it unless they had too! .......MB/heavy BMW/heavy Audi.
Saw a Lexus LS 400 with well know premium [Hrated] Gyear model less than 1 year old === all the tires not the wheels required between 68 and 122 grams of weights to balance a Michelin seldom uses over 20 most 5-15 even after 2 years.
Feathering is not caused as much by camber as it is toe and tire block squirm....rack bushings, tie rod ends [inner and outer], improper rack preload, thrust angle and rear suspension steering from bad bushings.
An 8 year old 94Q even with 47k will have all the rubber bushings destroyed from heat and ozone!Install a front strut tower brace will do wonder along with new shocks all around!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is a rather heavy front sway bar in place but no rear sway bar.
Also, the car has had all shocks replaced (OEM) and upper links replaced. Tensioner rods showed no signs of leaking.
Just drove the car again this morning. It has plenty of power. Got it up to 100 MPH for the first time. Very unstable at all speeds. Felt like a big ole' round bottom boat rolling around.
What other bushings besides those replaced need to be replaced?
Also, the car has had all shocks replaced (OEM) and upper links replaced. Tensioner rods showed no signs of leaking.
Just drove the car again this morning. It has plenty of power. Got it up to 100 MPH for the first time. Very unstable at all speeds. Felt like a big ole' round bottom boat rolling around.
What other bushings besides those replaced need to be replaced?
I would imagine that a sway bar should be OEM on the back (I can't say for sure because I own a J30t). This could very well be your problem. I wouldn't take this car over 25 until this is ironed out.fasride wrote:There is a rather heavy front sway bar in place but no rear sway bar.
Also, the car has had all shocks replaced (OEM) and upper links replaced. Tensioner rods showed no signs of leaking.
Just drove the car again this morning. It has plenty of power. Got it up to 100 MPH for the first time. Very unstable at all speeds. Felt like a big ole' round bottom boat rolling around.
What other bushings besides those replaced need to be replaced?
Once solved however, your Infiniti will amaze you. I drive a lot and look forward to getting in to the J for every and any trip. If the Q is anything like the J, you'll really notice how fresh you are after a long drive compared to other cars.
Fasride
Your Q should be very solid at all speeds.One of the most stable hi speed car out there. if everything is working right and the non "a" models are not all that difficult to keep up.
Maybe this is the point were internet-troubleshooting meets it's limitations.Take it to a dealer or a shop whose suspension expertise you trust, sorry we couldn't get the casue here, ususally we can.
There is still one Guru who has yet to chime in (Prof Mike), see what he has to say and then you might have to take it somewhere for a tech to physically take a look at it.
Fred...
Your Q should be very solid at all speeds.One of the most stable hi speed car out there. if everything is working right and the non "a" models are not all that difficult to keep up.
Maybe this is the point were internet-troubleshooting meets it's limitations.Take it to a dealer or a shop whose suspension expertise you trust, sorry we couldn't get the casue here, ususally we can.
There is still one Guru who has yet to chime in (Prof Mike), see what he has to say and then you might have to take it somewhere for a tech to physically take a look at it.
Fred...
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Professor_Mike
- Posts: 96
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texasoil
- Posts: 875
- Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2002 3:18 pm
- Car: '92 Infiniti Q45A
'94 Infiniti Q45A
'94 Mercedes-Benz SL600
rolling along in a Q45 boat.
Well no more about active suspension problems -- they don't wallow around!.
Something is very loose to cause/allow the rolling movement described. It can be:1) front sway bar end links;2) steering rack mounts (not likely);3) one or more defective struts or strut mounts; 4) badly bent front end parts; 5) worn out lower arm/ball joint; 6) engine mounts; 7) broken frame welds
All of these are easy to check/inspect.
Fix it before it breaks you and itself for good. It is very sick
Something is very loose to cause/allow the rolling movement described. It can be:1) front sway bar end links;2) steering rack mounts (not likely);3) one or more defective struts or strut mounts; 4) badly bent front end parts; 5) worn out lower arm/ball joint; 6) engine mounts; 7) broken frame welds
All of these are easy to check/inspect.
Fix it before it breaks you and itself for good. It is very sick
I took the Q back to the dealer in San Antonio today. It was pouring down rain so didn't stay long to chat with service manager.
He called me on my cell phone later and said that they had another Q45 in their shop with high miles and you could not easily push on it to make it bounce. Mine you can. You can push it down at will.
Dealer thinks maybe one or more of the "new" OEM shocks is defective. I would be surprised if they all are. He will replace them tomorrow.
I called the last owner for input about the problem. He said that the car had had the "roll" problem for sometime and that is why he traded it in. He also said that he had hit a curb on the passenger side and bent a control arm that was replaced by the Houston Infiniti dealer. I asked him whether it had the problem before the shunt and he replied that he thought it did. He didn't think the incident of hitting the curb caused the problem.
Thanks again for everyone's inputJerry SmithAlice, Texas
He called me on my cell phone later and said that they had another Q45 in their shop with high miles and you could not easily push on it to make it bounce. Mine you can. You can push it down at will.
Dealer thinks maybe one or more of the "new" OEM shocks is defective. I would be surprised if they all are. He will replace them tomorrow.
I called the last owner for input about the problem. He said that the car had had the "roll" problem for sometime and that is why he traded it in. He also said that he had hit a curb on the passenger side and bent a control arm that was replaced by the Houston Infiniti dealer. I asked him whether it had the problem before the shunt and he replied that he thought it did. He didn't think the incident of hitting the curb caused the problem.
Thanks again for everyone's inputJerry SmithAlice, Texas
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greg_atlanta
- Posts: 1111
- Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2002 4:37 pm
- Car: 2008 G35 Journey Sedan, silver/black (no sunroof), 1992 Q45 (in a past life)
The OEM shocks are a little floaty by nature... if it's not too late, you might want to see if you can use Tokico Blue series shocks. The cost a lot less too.
They're much stiffer, esp. for the 1st 5K miles are so. But then they soften up and feel about right.
Forgot if it was suggested already... but if still not pleased with ride after rear shocks are replaced, order a 20mm rear sway bar kit (about $235... see thread in Infiniti General forum).
They're much stiffer, esp. for the 1st 5K miles are so. But then they soften up and feel about right.
Forgot if it was suggested already... but if still not pleased with ride after rear shocks are replaced, order a 20mm rear sway bar kit (about $235... see thread in Infiniti General forum).
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greg_atlanta
- Posts: 1111
- Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2002 4:37 pm
- Car: 2008 G35 Journey Sedan, silver/black (no sunroof), 1992 Q45 (in a past life)
nadirgholi wrote:For some reason (I would guess because of Q's negative cambers) Yokohama AVS dB does develop what tire folks call feathering which causes an annoying wobbling noise when you drive...... All four tires have developed feathering and it took less than 1000 miles for the problem to surface.
I have these tires and I'm more disappointed as they've aged... but I didn't expect much at $70 each.
I use them for fall/winter only and recently remounted them on the opposite side. That helped a lot to even out the feathering.
I also found that lowering the psi helps a lot with the road feel. It's a dual sidewall, so it's pretty strong.... I currently have them at 31 psi front, 29 psi rear. I'll probably move them back to 34 psi all around as an experiment.... they aren't smoothing out as well even after they warm up.
I've got a set of AVS Intermediate 225/60/15 sitting in the closet waiting for next spring... can't wait!!!
:ylsuper
Geez, when I get new struts I can't help but to play with them before installation, and I'd surely notice if they didn't have any damping ability. It's as plausible as anything else. Maybe the rod was nicked during installation, ruining the strut. The springs and Tokicos provide most of the reactive force, especially when the car's static. Have the springs been replaced or altered in any way?
Don't give up on the Q. It is not a mistake. I have a 94 with 90K and it is a great ride. Rock solid at all speeds. My shocks have 40K on them and are in need of replacement, as are the bushings and rubber parts in the suspension -- all of which I will replace in the Spring. Even with that, the car should not roll and pitch. Any idea if those are the OEM springs? Could the little old lady in Houston had the OEM's replaced by some after market junk? Any wrecks? Perhaps the frame should be spec'd.
As Dennis mentioned before, by 94 many of the bugs were worked out of the earlier Q's and the 94's and 95's are very reliable. Higher than average (over econo cars) maintenence costs, but less than frequent failures. I believe that he points to a customer that has 247K on a 94 with the original transmission and no external cooler - religious maintenence.
Once you get the suspension bugs worked out, as others here agree, you will remember what a great ride the Q has every time you rent another car. I travel by air a lot and it never fails to surprise me how much better my Q feels, when I get behind the wheel of virtually any new rental car. Great car for someone who drives 40 to 50K per year! You should get 200 to 250K out of that one.
As Dennis mentioned before, by 94 many of the bugs were worked out of the earlier Q's and the 94's and 95's are very reliable. Higher than average (over econo cars) maintenence costs, but less than frequent failures. I believe that he points to a customer that has 247K on a 94 with the original transmission and no external cooler - religious maintenence.
Once you get the suspension bugs worked out, as others here agree, you will remember what a great ride the Q has every time you rent another car. I travel by air a lot and it never fails to surprise me how much better my Q feels, when I get behind the wheel of virtually any new rental car. Great car for someone who drives 40 to 50K per year! You should get 200 to 250K out of that one.
Thanks for all of the great encouragement . I really do like the car and will really like it when I can quit taking Dramamine for motion sickness.
When I was in San Antonio dropping off the car, I did look at some of the other Infinitis that they had. Also forgot to mention that the Infiniti dealer gave me a G35 loaner the first time I had it in for upper link replacement. Pretty neat car but I have to say I still like the Q better.
The G35 and I30's are very nice, but the Q has "character" that the others don't have. And that's my feeling even with the ride problems. I DO plan to get it fixed properly and keep it for a very long time and hope to continue sharing this forum with everyone.
I should know something in a couple of days. Will share results.
Thanks again
Jerry
When I was in San Antonio dropping off the car, I did look at some of the other Infinitis that they had. Also forgot to mention that the Infiniti dealer gave me a G35 loaner the first time I had it in for upper link replacement. Pretty neat car but I have to say I still like the Q better.
The G35 and I30's are very nice, but the Q has "character" that the others don't have. And that's my feeling even with the ride problems. I DO plan to get it fixed properly and keep it for a very long time and hope to continue sharing this forum with everyone.
I should know something in a couple of days. Will share results.
Thanks again
Jerry
Talked to the dealership today. They replaced the "new" OEM shocks with another set of new OEM shocks (under warranty) and the problem still exists. They are going to try another set of wheels and tires next, but the tires are new and the problem was there at the time I bought the car and before I replaced the tires so I am pretty sure that is not going to fix it.
I will keep reporting the results as they occur.
Jerry
I will keep reporting the results as they occur.
Jerry
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OLU40
- Posts: 285
- Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2002 8:09 am
- Car: Infiniti's Martial Arts, Science, Reading, Sports, Computers, Electronics WOMEN!
The Q is a very good car so don't be dissapointed yet. I know it is hard to do because you spent hard earned money. Yes I will concur (from experience) that the Yoko tires are excellent in the rain and dry conditioons but have some wobbly feeling but there are pros and cons to everything. Coming from New York you learn to look for things that are suspicious. The car may have been in a more serious accident than the owner will let up to. The chassis may need straightening after a collision. Don't get nervous yet! Just expanding on the other well informed members comments. I have to prepare you for the possibility. It might be something to check for though. I love my Q and it is trouble free. But you have to baby her more than your previous American cars. They love pampering! Nissan makes excellent products and I wish you the best. I have sub frame bushings I have to pay 440+ for because they dont come separate from the frame! Hey what are you gonna do. NY roads dont make it any better. P.S. Be very careful which dealer you go to like the others have told you. Some are very inexperienced techs and are loking for you to spend$$$$$! If you cant find a good Infiniti dealer try a all aroung good mechanic well versed in Infiniti biology!
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OLU40
- Posts: 285
- Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2002 8:09 am
- Car: Infiniti's Martial Arts, Science, Reading, Sports, Computers, Electronics WOMEN!
The Q is a very good car so don't be dissapointed yet. I know it is hard to do because you spent hard earned money. Yes I will concur (from experience) that the Yoko tires are excellent in the rain and dry conditioons but have some wobbly feeling but there are pros and cons to everything. Coming from New York you learn to look for things that are suspicious. The car may have been in a more serious accident than the owner will let up to. The chassis may need straightening after a collision. Don't get nervous yet! Just expanding on the other well informed members comments. I have to prepare you for the possibility. It might be something to check for though. I love my Q and it is trouble free. But you have to baby her more than your previous American cars. They love pampering! Nissan makes excellent products and I wish you the best. I have sub frame bushings I have to pay 440+ for because they dont come separate from the frame! Hey what are you gonna do. NY roads dont make it any better. P.S. Be very careful which dealer you go to like the others have told you. Some are very inexperienced techs and are loking for you to spend$$$$$! If you cant find a good Infiniti dealer try a all aroung good mechanic well versed in Infiniti biology!