93 240SX Won't start - Starter or electrical?

[altralosix]

Tonight I got in my car after work and turned the key and heard nothing but a single small click. I had plenty of power and the battery is only 2 years old.

Opened the hood and got my friend to try it and the starter will click once and that's it. We eventually resorted to push starting it and got it running so I could make it home.

Now the strange thing is I've had this problem lately with the ignition. Sometimes I'll turn my key and nothing will happen. If I jiggle the key with it turned the car will start. There obviously seems to be a bad connection in there. So that makes things even more confusing.

Do I try to "hotwire" my car to see if it starts? Does it sound like it's just the starter and the ignition thing is just cooincidence?

Also, when push-starting, I found out I have to have the key turned all the way to start to get it to fire when popping the clutch. I thought as long as it was in the on position it would fire. Took a few tries to figure that out. So if it is indeed a requirement to have the key in the start position, and it started when push-starting it, then obviously the bad connection in the ignition wasn't the problem.

Anyone have any advice or instructions for swapping starters? I've browsed through the copy of the FSM I have and couldn't find much info other than a diagram of how the starter is constructed. I'm sure I could just figure it out, but it's nice to see what I have to do before I do it.

I guess that's it. Thanks guys

edit: Info that may or may not be helpful:152K miles, no idea if the starter has ever been replaced. I've had the car for a year and only replaced a few minor maintenance things, nothing recently. Original engine and everything. 5 speed.
Modified by altralosix at 10:44 PM 9/19/2005

[NISTECH]

You may have a couple things going on here, but first and foremost , You NEED to replace the electricla portion of the ignition switch BEFORE you persue any further diagnosis of your no start. Reason being it is an obvious problem with the primary starting component. No you do not need to hold the key in the start position to pop start it, on position is where you should have it.

[altralosix]

Ok I've been messing with it a bit today. Tried smacking the crap out of the starter and still no luck. I read that placing a voltmeter on the battery and watching the voltage drop while trying to start can determine a bad starter if the voltage drops to like 11.5 or below. The voltage barely moved. It went from like 12.6 to 12.4.

I have the steering column taken apart and I'm trying to make sense of the wiring as I can't find anything in the FSM about it. Is it actually possible for me to "hot wire" my car? Can I just short two wires together and make the car think the key is being turned?

Thanks for your help NISTECH, I really appreciate it!

[altralosix]

Ok I have the ignition switch removed from the key cylinder. If I turn the switch to what would be ON, press in on the clutch, and short the B/Y and B/W wires together the starter clicks. Still only one click per time I short the wires together. Could it still be the switch? Something with the other 3 wires coming out of it? Are those 3 wires just for accessories? I can't find a decent wiring diagram. No local stores stock the switch, so unfortunately I can't just go pick one up and test it out.

heh, it's funny how I've discovered how easy it would be to steal a 240.

[altralosix]

I'm becoming convinced it's the starter.

I found out which wires do what on the ignition switch and jumped them together to make like the switch was in the START position. I would press the clutch switch in with my hand and the starter would click. So obviously the ignition switch is ok because I'm bypassing it completely, as well as the clutch switch. Unless there's some fuse or relay or something I don't know about, that leaves the starter.

How the hell do I get this thing out!? I crawled under the car to try to figure it out and I can't find a single bolt that holds it in. It's like it's just THERE! I'm attaching the best picture I could get of it from above. You can see where there's a spot that looks like it should have a bolt, but there isn't one there. I felt all behind it and couldn't feel anything. If you can give me any specific instructions or pointers I would greatly appreciate it. I can't find any decent instructions or diagrams anywhere.

[NISTECH]

ok first to verify its the starter. that smaller single wire coming off the starter is the wire the ignition switch allows power to go to to start the car. unplug its connector at the starter and supply a direct 12volts to that wire. If it clicks the starter is toast. If it cranks the engine over, its not the starter.

To remove it:The bolts are coming through the bell housing on the trans and into the starter. You can see the end of the bottm starter bolt in you picture. It is just below the hole that looks like a bolt hole.

[altralosix]

Alright it's not the starter. It tested out just fine. Tried jumping it like you said and it works fine. I'm pretty much out of ideas. What is between the ignition switch and starter that could be causing this? Does the ignition switch need to be grounded? Looking through the wiring diagrams in the FSM I see two "Ignition Relay"s, where are they and what do they do? Possible one is bad? I'm not having the best of time trying to figure out this wiring, it doesn't help that my car seems to have a couple of different wire colors than the FSM lists.
Modified by altralosix at 3:48 PM 9/21/2005

[altralosix]

Alright things just got even stranger. It is not the starter that's clicking. The starter doesn't do anything. I was trying to check the voltage on the wire going to the starter when I realized where the click was coming from.

It feels and sounds like it's coming from the blue box in the picture. That's not the only click, but it is the loudest.

We also noticed clicking coming from the fusebox over by the airbox.

So with my limited knowledge of automotive wiring and fuses and relays and all that crap, what the hell do I do now? I don't even know what that blue box IS

[green13fb]

That Blue Box is your starter relay.

Just a side note, before you mess with anything else, double check that your battery is properly connected and the terminals are clean. I have had the same problem with the starter just clicking because my positive terminal wasn't on "well" enough even though it looked alright. The factory cable ends are not spectacular, so you might consider changing them out as well.

[altralosix]

Looking at the FSM it's titled the "Interlock Relay" and I can't see anything else my problem could be caused by. Is it in any way safe to jump together the connectors on the relay and give it a shot before I try to track down a new relay?

[altralosix]

I took the relay off and rigged it up with a 12V wall brick and checked resistance. It works fine. It's clicking because it's working. I know how relays work now

I'm really contemplating a kick starter!

So the ignition switch works, the clutch switch works, and the relay is getting the signal to close and spin the starter. The starter just isn't picking up their message. I guess now I'm trying to track down a bad wire somewhere between the relay and the starter. I really might rig up my own wire from the relay to the starter and see what happens. I'll check the grounds too.

Kick starter here I come!

[NISTECH]

Well sure fire repair right hear. Have some one hold your key in the start position and resort to barbaric attaking methods. Tap that relay with the head of a screw driver and observe how it comes to life.

After you do that run down to nissan and buy the 18 dollar relay.

[altralosix]

I WAS the starter relay! I tried tapping it and never got any luck. I was convinced buying a new relay would be a waste of money as it SEEMED like it was working. I figured I'd give it a shot and $28 later (apparently my Nissan dealership is rather expensive) it cranks right up. Thanks for your help NISTECH!