92Q will not turn

[thirdq]

yesterday drove the car in a little bit rain - the car went thru thru 12 inch water on one road - stumbled, and eventually stopped - a lot of steam came out all over (I guess the car was running hot when touched the cold water on ground steam came out).

The car started after 4-5 minutes of waiting, stumbled a little then cleared up quickly. Went to lunch, no problem, Came back from work no problems.

This morning - the car will not Turn at all.

1. The bells and whistles are working inside the cabin (battery not dead?).2. Battery is less than 6 month old3. I can hear the fuel pmp engage when I Ignition "ON"4. Relay click everytime I try to crank - but then the motor does not turn over at all.5. I verified the relay behavior with digital volt meter and it seem to work fine - open when no voltage, closed when applied with 12V6. Tried to jump start - same results, no cranking7. Visuall checked the fuses in cabin and in the main fuse box, look ok.

92Q, 132K

Any help - thanks


Modified by thirdq at 2:24 PM 8/26/2006

[Raxephon]

Have you tried turning the motor over manually?(ie, putting a 30mm socket on the end of the crankshaft and trying to turn it)

[goody90q45]

I had a similar problem a couple of months ago. Same symptoms as you've described. Look at your battery posts. Are they clean? Do you have a good, solid connection to where whene tightened you can't turn the cable by hand?

I had problems when the factory positive cable clamp finally wore out and would not clamp securely to the battery post. I chased the electrical demons for a couple of days thinking I had starter issues. Replaced the connection with a sturdier Napa brand and all is well. Good luck.

[thirdq]

If the battery is not connected in - then I would not get in-cabin instruments right? The door bell, instrument panel, horn - everything seems to be engaged. The fuel pump is humming when I ingnition "ON" -

I can see the spark [inside the relay casing] in the blue starter relay and it clicks when we try to start from the ignition. It seems the electrical from tha battery is OK - just something past the starter relay is not working elecrically may be?

Also, inside the cabin - whenever I try to start the car (Key turned past ignition ON) I hear a relay click right below the area where the key goes [there are a number of wires beneath the steering wheel area.

Is there a relay there as well? is that clicking sound normal? I never noticed it before - was just curious if that is normal.

I am planning to turn the motor by hand, just do not have the 30mm socket yet - a trip to AutoZone is in order later today. I have gotten the fan out of the way to get in there to turn it by hand.

I am stumped......it certainly seems like a electrical problem - and I know I drove it thru standing water the last day it was running ---- arghhhhh

[Q45denver]

You may have burned out the starter if you hydrolocked the engine?

[Q45tech]

Our usual proceedure is too ALWAYS replace the blue starter relay FIRST, then measure the starter current to check that it is actually engaging via the bendix [on starter relay]...........bad spot on starter commutator is usually tested by banging a hammer against starter housing while trying to crank after we are sure the current is flowing.

Starter failures per se are pretty rare.........have had same oem for 16.5 years and 308k...........however lots of highway miles so that might equate to 150-200k of city starts.

[thirdq]

I took out the battery to AutoZone they tested it good - evne under load and everything. So Battery is not the issue here.

I cleaned up the connecteors, used the wirebrush - tightened the terminals - all wires out of the battery look Good.

couple quick questions?

1. Can i jump the starter relay (if yes how, please) [I do not have a new relay yet, it will take couple days to get it from Joe]. Any concerns?

Does this mean shorting the input on 3 & 5 terminals and not connecting the relay? 2. What do I need to do to tap the starter (to see if the soleniod on it is stck)? Is is tapped from beneath the car or from the top? How do I locate it?

I am ready with my hammer to kick the hell out of the starter - just let me know where to hit....

Thanks

Modified by thirdq at 6:22 PM 8/27/2006

Modified by thirdq at 6:38 PM 8/27/2006
Modified by thirdq at 6:45 PM 8/27/2006

[thirdq]

OK - after Wes gave me some hint on where the Starter motor was, I jacked the car up on the passenger side used the jack stand rod to tap the starter motor and long behold the car started right on the first crank.

So far so good.

BTW for others who may be as lame as mine - the starter motor is accessible from beneath only, you do not need to take the under cover off - it is right along the same line where motor meets the transmission - just a little towards the passenger side up above that area.

Thanks

[94 Q45]

Hi, I have the same problem with my 94Q that won't start but just crank, I wonder how do you tap the starter and what part of the starter do you tap, I have not tried this before so maybe it would work for me. Thank you for the information.

[thirdq]

Remember, my car was not cranking at all - the motor was not turning.

When you say your car is cranking, it means the motor is trying to turn. Read the original post, it has all the details of what was happening with my car (symptoms).

All what I did was to jack the passenger side, crawled beneath with an iron rod and slightly tapped on the starter motor. Just hit it lightly with something [rod, hammer, etc] - the goal is not to break it but rather unstuck the solenoid by gently applying tapping force over it.