90 240sx spark/fuel issue

[Import_Ant]

I've been screwing around with this thing for weeks trying to get it running and I keep hitting brick walls. I'll try and keep this short without leaving anything out: the car in question is a 1990 240sx SE hatchback. only mods are suspension everything else is original/stock.

about 4 weeks ago I pulled my car in the garage, changed the oil, and dropped the steering column (didnt disconnect negative battery stupid I know)

I was trying to find out why my illumination lights on my gauge cluster wouldn't come on at night. I pulled the gauge cluster out to inspect for damage (didn't unplug it) everything looked fine so i reinstalled it. I removed my TCU (little white box in driver's kick panel that controls dimming functions and wipers) and installed my brother's (89 240 coupe w/ HUD) it fixed my gauge lights so I reassembled everyting and the car won't start now. it cranks over without trouble but isn't getting any spark or fuel.

I have tested my distributor and ECU in my brother's car. both are good. I tried a different known-good ignition, I've replaced the transistor that converts the signal from the tach (it's at the wiring harness in the engine bay where the two plugs connect to the ignition coil ) I have checked all the wiring in my column multiple times. there isn't anything disconnected. no blown fuses.

Any ideas? I'm out of them and about to throw in the towl.

Thanks in advance,-Aaron
Modified by Import_Ant at 11:43 PM 5/19/2005

[NISTECH]

are you getting power to the injectors? use a volt meter not a test light.

[Import_Ant]

I took it in to a shop earlier this week. I just got off the phone w/ the mechanic and he said the distributor is not emitting a 5 volt crank refrence signal. The distributor was just purchased (rebuilt) and I tested it on my brother's car. his car ran fine w/ this distributor installed. Does that help at all? (he hasn't tested for voltage at the injector clips btw)

Thanks for the help

[NISTECH]

have you relayed to him that the distributor worked in your brothers car? If he is sure it doesnt have the 5 volt reffrence signal what he need to do is test for power to the distributor crank sensor while cranking the car to see if the supplied voltage drops off, I have seen ECCS relays cause this sort of problem.

[Import_Ant]

yeah he knows I have tested the ECU, Distributor, and ignition coil in the known good car. I will relay this info to him. I didn't try testing the ECCS control unit though. It's the black box in the passenger side kick panel (behind the ECU) correct? the one more toward the front of the car. Is there a seperate relay as well or just the control unit?

[NISTECH]

ECCS,ECU,ECM mean the same part.Term break down as follows.ECCS=Electronic Concentrated Control SystemECU= Engine/Electronic Control UnitECM= Engine Control Module

I thing you might be lookin at the fuel pump controller.

[Import_Ant]

thanks for the clarification Which relay were you referring to (when you said 'I've seen ECCS relays cause this problem')?

(sidenote: I have the benefit of having both a known good car and a parts car as well [89 coupe. motor ran before it was pulled] So I can pretty much replace anything I need, I just need to find out what needs to be replaced )

[NISTECH]

The ECCS or EFI relay is what the ecm powers up to semd power to all the primary sensors amongst other things. It is blue or green in color and is typically located in the relay box near your air cleaner.

[Import_Ant]

awesome. I'll see if I can try that tomorrow. thanks.

[Import_Ant]

I didnt see any relays labeled EFI or ECCC. I did find a blue one labeled ACC and swapped it but it didnt fix the problem. I dropped my brother's car off at the shop so they can cross refrence some things but I think I'm going to just tow it home and use it as a parts car or something. Thanks NISTECH for all your help let me know if you can think of anything else.

[NISTECH]

sorry the ECCS relay is in the box by the battery. The relay you removed is the accesory relay.According to my 92 manual the ECCS relay is green.

[Import_Ant]

I tried the two green relays in that box neither worked. The shop tech installed the distributor from my brothers car in the car that isn't working and is claiming that he's getting the 5v refrence signal now. now he's saying the ECU isn't using it. I'm very confused though because even at this point, I can start and run my brother's car with the distributor from the broken car (which supposedly wasn't supplying the 5v crank refrence signal)

it's days like this I wish for a carburated engine lol.

I found a rolling chassis w/ a siezed motor/clean title. I may just pick it up this weekend and swap my motor in.
Modified by Import_Ant at 12:18 AM 5/18/2005

[NISTECH]

I had a guy come in today, he towed his car from another shop, the shop told him his compression was low and noted the compression readings across the board. I think it was 92 75 64 125. They told him it needed a new motor.

Now the reason he took it to that shop was it would not start after it was driven to X location upon leaving an hour or so later it would not start. Car supposidly ran beautiful on the way to X location.

I get to the car in the parking lot plugs are out and cap is off. The owner of the car walks up to observe, we converse as I work. I think hmm lets throw it back together and hear it whine while cranking, cause after all there is next to no compression. well I get it back together and crank it, well dang it sounds like it wants to start?? how can it have no compression. So I pull the cap back off and take a close look at it, Hmm this cap ,the other shop had off, has a very obvious crack along the coil trace coming from the edge of the cap,as well as a little oil in the crank angle sensor part of the distributor assembly, Not quite enough to be a problem but there is oil in there none the less. I tell the guy I feel a cap will likely get it running. But I caution him that the oil getting in there can become a problem if enough of it gets on the crank angle sensor. Due to his uncertainty the OTHER shop has instilled in him he wants to just go with the cap and rotor for now to see if the car really will start. So I go to parts and get him the $30 in parts[much less then a $4000 engine overhaul] I have him see the advisor to sign the estimate, I remove the made in taiwan cap and rotor and install the factory cap and rotor. hold my foot to the floor and she came to life with a bit of a sputter due to the amount of fuel in washing down the cyclinders that can cause lower compression and give you false readings if you dont remove the fuel pump fuse when doing a compression test as the other shop obviously did. After the fuel cleared out the car ran as it did when they were on the way to location X. He had it towed to us because he was smart and realized the after market shop had no idea what they were talking about.

And finally my point. The shop working on your car obviously is lost and doesnt know for sure whats wrong and is taking guesses trying to use your wallet to pay for their training. Maybe you outta consider taking it to someone more competant.

[NISTECH]

BTW I never got the car from the parking lot to the shop and the customer was there with me the entire time I was working on his vehicle. Before he left the dealer he ordered the distributor and decided to leave the car with me till I get the part and install it.

I dont think abandoning getting this car running is neccesary as it will likely end up being something simple. I just think you have the wrong guy working on it. He hasent even tryed to see if there is power to the injectors yet nor have I heard that he has used a noid light to check for injector pulse. first place I would start as its easy to do.

[Import_Ant]

thanks for the encoragement, I'm bringing it home this weekend regardless. I agree they do seem really lost. thankfully the shop owner is a cool guy (I think) and is only charging me 60$ for time spent (wasted?) on the car during the past week and a half. I'll check for injector pulse with a voltmeter once I get it home and let you know what I find.

Thanks a million,Aaron

[Import_Ant]

Turns out it was a broken wire. somehow a wire got broken in my wiring harness (where it goes through the firewall)

Car runs now but sounds like **** because all of the seals have shrunken due to it sitting for so many weeks. I'll run some seafoam through it and give her an oil change. Thanks again NISTECH for all of your help and encouragement!

YOU ROCK!