So, I found this 89 240sx, been looking for a relatively close one for a while with no real body damage for cheap..
Well, found it. Tires are shot, looks like theres a draw on the battery somewhere (plowing through the battery quick), engine will not even crank, not hearing the fuel pump, rear lights wont turn off ever, even with key removed. This car is all kinds of special.
We looked at the first two connections going to the fuel pump, and saw that we were getting 12vs there, however as we were out in BFE we had no way of knowing what to expect on the other connections. So I need to find out how to check that fuel pump before i end up replacing it and possibly burning one up (this is where you guys come in). Eventually I plan on replacing it anyway, as i am planning a sr20det swap, but one thing at a time here.
As for not cranking, well with the car hooked up and sucking off my 03 SE-R nothing was turning over. We were able to jump the starter, and get it to spin by hand.. but still no crank over.
As for the battery draw.. that's going to be an interesting experiance I am sure of it...
89 240sx fastback project, no crank & not hearing fuel pump
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benemorius
- Posts: 1937
- Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:39 pm
- Car: s13, s13, eg, e36
Re: 89 240sx fastback project, no crank & not hearing fuel pump (shrapnail)
If you are trying to say that the brake lights stay on then that is clear cause for the battery drain. If the battery has been abused like this then it is possible that it is just too far gone and that could be why the starter won't operate. That could also be the reason for the fuel pump not working, though not as likely if you measured 12v at it. You should have 12v between the black-yellow and black wires. Ignore the others as they are for the fuel gauge. Mind you there will only be power for a few seconds after you turn the key to on so you may have to have someone turn the key while you check for voltage. If you don't have power there then listen for the fuel pump relay clicking.. check fuses... you get the idea. Let us know what happens and we'll go from there.
Re: 89 240sx fastback project, no crank & not hearing fuel pump (benemorius)
currently troubleshooting wiring.. of course the brake lights are a battery drain, but we don't believe it to be the primary drain due to the rate of loss (seen across multiple batteries). As for the starter, we were unable to get it to perform regularly even with direct power applied from a good battery-we were curious if there was possibly a computer (logic) tie in that would inhibit it from doing it's job if there were any safety issues?
I'll look at the fuel pump again, but that has somewhat become a back-burner item since it isn't going to come into play until after we get the motor to try to come up.
right now we are ripping out random wires in the car that served various radio/cb functions this guy had.. the less things to worry about the better.
Also, the car is now at the house so it makes it easier to play with.. checked the fuses tonight, didn't find any blown-however did find 2 slots that had no fuses at all. Replacing one got the clock to work, but neither seem to have any effect on any of the issues we seem to be having so far.
The clutch has no plunger to reach the clutch switch, I believe there is some additional wiring the last owner put in to bypass this; though we have been trying to hold the clutch switch in while we attempt to start it anyway.
there is a switch, it appears to be a "killswitch" under the dash.. Started following it but have not yet located its' ties, believe it to be to the battery and ???. It appears to have no impact on anything regardless of posistion so far.
more wire shooting to go.. wish my work schedule wasn't so messed up for the next couple of weeks... not getting much sleep as is
-anxious-
I'll look at the fuel pump again, but that has somewhat become a back-burner item since it isn't going to come into play until after we get the motor to try to come up.
right now we are ripping out random wires in the car that served various radio/cb functions this guy had.. the less things to worry about the better.
Also, the car is now at the house so it makes it easier to play with.. checked the fuses tonight, didn't find any blown-however did find 2 slots that had no fuses at all. Replacing one got the clock to work, but neither seem to have any effect on any of the issues we seem to be having so far.
The clutch has no plunger to reach the clutch switch, I believe there is some additional wiring the last owner put in to bypass this; though we have been trying to hold the clutch switch in while we attempt to start it anyway.
there is a switch, it appears to be a "killswitch" under the dash.. Started following it but have not yet located its' ties, believe it to be to the battery and ???. It appears to have no impact on anything regardless of posistion so far.
more wire shooting to go.. wish my work schedule wasn't so messed up for the next couple of weeks... not getting much sleep as is
-anxious-
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benemorius
- Posts: 1937
- Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:39 pm
- Car: s13, s13, eg, e36
Re: 89 240sx fastback project, no crank & not hearing fuel pump (shrapnail)
Definitely sounds like you're going in the right direction. It may well be that his kill switch was wired to kill the starter and fuel pump and has failed. Good luck tracing the wires back. Sounds like barrels of fun.
Do you have a wiring diagram? I've attached one just in case.
Do you have a wiring diagram? I've attached one just in case.
Re: 89 240sx fastback project, no crank & not hearing fuel pump (benemorius)
Aight.. made some decent progress tonight..
tore out the remaining spare wires.. after that we disconnected all the tails/brakes from power. That did it, no more battery drain after spare wire's and lights removed from circuit.
My roommate went through and replaced all the cars fuses with the proper ones (seat belt electronics were fixed by this, did not note any further change).. started T/Sing with the ECU.. It looks like the neutral switch is not functioning, at this time we believe that to be the primary issue preventing crank.. So wanted to try it tonight.. just got way too late.. works killing me
I need to do some research into what actually controls the brake lights so that i can take care of that... ensure the ecu itself is actually getting power.. and possibly jumper the fuel pump directly to make sure that it is broken and not just some problem between the plug in and the actual contacts.
thanks a ton benemorius for the help, i've got roughly the same diagrams.. but i think you have removed some fluff perhaps? in any case I appreciate the attention.
tore out the remaining spare wires.. after that we disconnected all the tails/brakes from power. That did it, no more battery drain after spare wire's and lights removed from circuit.
My roommate went through and replaced all the cars fuses with the proper ones (seat belt electronics were fixed by this, did not note any further change).. started T/Sing with the ECU.. It looks like the neutral switch is not functioning, at this time we believe that to be the primary issue preventing crank.. So wanted to try it tonight.. just got way too late.. works killing me
I need to do some research into what actually controls the brake lights so that i can take care of that... ensure the ecu itself is actually getting power.. and possibly jumper the fuel pump directly to make sure that it is broken and not just some problem between the plug in and the actual contacts.
thanks a ton benemorius for the help, i've got roughly the same diagrams.. but i think you have removed some fluff perhaps? in any case I appreciate the attention.
Re: 89 240sx fastback project, no crank & not hearing fuel pump (benemorius)
oh, and are there any "un-noted" diffrences between the 89 and 90 I need to be worried about? As far as I know they are pretty much (if not totally) identical.. but slightly concerned regardless.
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benemorius
- Posts: 1937
- Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:39 pm
- Car: s13, s13, eg, e36
Re: 89 240sx fastback project, no crank & not hearing fuel pump (shrapnail)
Is it auto or manual? If it's manual, you have a clutch interlock switch and not a neutral switch. If it's auto, the inhibitor switch is where it's at. It is not uncommon for the gear shift lever to be misadjusted in such a way that the inhibitor switch is not properly sensing that the transmission is in park. Moving the lever back and forth while holding the key to start is a sufficient test for that.
The brake lights are pretty simple. The lights are wired to the switch at the brake pedal which is wired to a fuse which is wired to the battery. The most common cause for the lights to remain on is a missing rubber stopper on the pedal which is supposed to contact the switch. You can either get a new rubber stopper or fasten something else in it's place. That should all make sense once you get down under there and have a look at the pedal/switch.
No need to be concerned about 89 vs 90.
The brake lights are pretty simple. The lights are wired to the switch at the brake pedal which is wired to a fuse which is wired to the battery. The most common cause for the lights to remain on is a missing rubber stopper on the pedal which is supposed to contact the switch. You can either get a new rubber stopper or fasten something else in it's place. That should all make sense once you get down under there and have a look at the pedal/switch.
No need to be concerned about 89 vs 90.
Re: 89 240sx fastback project, no crank & not hearing fuel pump (benemorius)
manual, and that would make sense.. I mean i've seen the thing; I was just under the impression from the FSM that they both existed and served two distinct purpouses (maybe Cruise control vs. ignition?).. The wire for it was orange and green if I recall.. pin 32ish on the ecu.
As per the lights, which fuse is that? Nothing seems to be labled for it? I am sure when I get into the diagrams I will find it.. no time tonight though.. i'll have to take a look at that switch.. i've messed with the clutch a bit, but not that one.
As per the lights, which fuse is that? Nothing seems to be labled for it? I am sure when I get into the diagrams I will find it.. no time tonight though.. i'll have to take a look at that switch.. i've messed with the clutch a bit, but not that one.
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benemorius
- Posts: 1937
- Joined: Tue Jun 08, 2004 5:39 pm
- Car: s13, s13, eg, e36
Re: 89 240sx fastback project, no crank & not hearing fuel pump (shrapnail)
I'm not sure what it's labeled, but according to the wiring diagram it's the fourth down on the right in the interior fuse panel. 15 amp
If anyone ever finds an s13 with a neutral switch, I'd like to know. The wiring diagram shows one, but I have yet to see one in reality.
If anyone ever finds an s13 with a neutral switch, I'd like to know. The wiring diagram shows one, but I have yet to see one in reality.
Just thought i'd give you an update
light drainage is fixed for the time being, pulled the rubber stoppers off the cruise control switches
bypassed the ignition system by jumping power directly after the ignition relay, got car to crank. Ran for about 30 seconds and then died. After that we couldn't get it to run more than 4-8 seconds.
still were not hearing the fuel pump, so we pulled that.. ran power directly to it (pwr was measure at it's connection before, but thought perhaps the contacts were bad); and it didn't spin up.
so we "acquired" a small mitsubishi fuel pump.. the thing doesn't really "work" per se in that it cannot keep up with the car.. staggers (like fuel-cut off) occasionally around 2.5k rpm.. cannot get any real acceleration.. Sounds horrible but we made it around the block
working on it today as i have a day off.
the car is getting an oil pressure light..I changed the oil and put in some additives, but that was no help. If you pull the sensor the indicator goes away as it should. We aren't sure that it's reaching the top the way it should.. I am going to check compression but we are going to mess with this first just to be sure.
So i'm working on that right now, draining the oil to drop the oil pan to make sure the "sock" and pump are still connected.. anything else I should look at while in there?
Also about to research what to do about a broken hand brake while under there. The cable snapped right at the fork connection, and the connection appears to have been done with rivits, so I haven't figured out how i'm going to handle that yet (drill it out and replace with nuts/bolts perhaps?).. and if it snapped once, maybe I should get a new cable? Anyway off to research my options..
Modified by shrapnail at 10:58 PM 7/24/2006
light drainage is fixed for the time being, pulled the rubber stoppers off the cruise control switches
bypassed the ignition system by jumping power directly after the ignition relay, got car to crank. Ran for about 30 seconds and then died. After that we couldn't get it to run more than 4-8 seconds.
still were not hearing the fuel pump, so we pulled that.. ran power directly to it (pwr was measure at it's connection before, but thought perhaps the contacts were bad); and it didn't spin up.
so we "acquired" a small mitsubishi fuel pump.. the thing doesn't really "work" per se in that it cannot keep up with the car.. staggers (like fuel-cut off) occasionally around 2.5k rpm.. cannot get any real acceleration.. Sounds horrible but we made it around the block
working on it today as i have a day off.
the car is getting an oil pressure light..I changed the oil and put in some additives, but that was no help. If you pull the sensor the indicator goes away as it should. We aren't sure that it's reaching the top the way it should.. I am going to check compression but we are going to mess with this first just to be sure.
So i'm working on that right now, draining the oil to drop the oil pan to make sure the "sock" and pump are still connected.. anything else I should look at while in there?
Also about to research what to do about a broken hand brake while under there. The cable snapped right at the fork connection, and the connection appears to have been done with rivits, so I haven't figured out how i'm going to handle that yet (drill it out and replace with nuts/bolts perhaps?).. and if it snapped once, maybe I should get a new cable? Anyway off to research my options..
Modified by shrapnail at 10:58 PM 7/24/2006