800 hp N.A. VH41 Race or Road

[Mirage]

VH 41 830 H.P. Author Post MirageJWT POP Charger

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10 posts [100%]Hastings Hawkes Bay4-6-2005 VH 41 830 H.P. 12:20 AM 4/6/2005

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Have we built the most powerful naturally aspirated Nissan in the world???? Specs. Bore 98mm Stroke 101mm Heads standard VH 41 Bottom end standard Block is VH 41 Crankshaft Denco Camshafts-- special grind Fuel--Methanol Compression ---13:1 E.C.U---Motec M800 Electronic fuel injection Handbuilt I.R. fuel injection Dry sumped Carrillo Rods Roughly 400 cu inch Power: 830 H.P. @ 6000 R.P.M. Torque 680 Ft Lb @ 5800 R.P.M. All work done in New Zealand, if you want one let us know. Engine currently in a Jet sprint boat



maxnixNICO Supporter

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5140 posts [100%]Austin TX7-22-2002 « Re: VH 41 830 H.P. (Mirage) 10:50 AM 4/7/2005

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Same reply as on that Far Away board:Interesting, but I think a non-stroker would be better for the street.

No mention of headers, but there must have been some fabricated. Injectors, fuel pump? Cooling would be an issue on street also.

Of course, methanol is not feasible for the street.

If you ever do a gasoline version, please report back.

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Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45

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10 posts [100%]Hastings Hawkes Bay4-6-2005 « Re: VH 41 830 H.P. (maxnix) 4:38 PM 4/7/2005

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You are right in that everything for this engine was handbuilt including headers, but we are probably looking under US$40,000 for cost although I would have to do a proper analysis to cost it accurately.You will note the power figures are at low R.P.M. and these moters run like sewing machines at 9000+. We only ran the 400 cu in engine to about 7-7500R.P.M. from memory as the jet unit is limited to about 6000 rpm. It will run fine on high octane gasoline and we would not anticipate much power loss particularly if the engine is being used in a car, as you will be able to use more rpm.We are building here in N.Z. VH41 sleeved back to 240 cu in (stock car 1/4 mile tracks) with 1x 4 barrel carb, and using the cam angle sensor as a distributor. These engines are producing 500+ H.P. @ 9500 rpm on petrol.

There are also 2 x VH45 in jet boats running twin turbos involved in marathon racing on our rivers. I do not have the performance figures off hand but could probably get them if someone is interested. One of the engines is stock and is I understand running about 15lb boost, the bloke who is racing this engine bought 8 of them and is by trial and error working out how much boost they will handle.The other engine has had extensive modifications and from what I hear is going well.These engines come in from Japan and cost us about US$1000-00 each so you can understand why the first bloke has taken the path he has.

Next week a VH41 (modified) is going on the Dyno and I will be able to tell you more about the performance of this engine when I get the figures. This engine is running an E.C.U and using all stock gear apart from cams and the engine maps.

Perhaps you could give me some specs on the 5.7 Litre Nissan in the Titan truck. We are particularly interested in deck heights, head design and dry weight, rod lengths etc

maxnixNICO Supporter

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5140 posts [100%]Austin TX7-22-2002 « Re: VH 41 830 H.P. (Mirage) 9:40 AM 4/8/2005

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Why sleeve it to 240 cu. in. rather than destroke it slightly? Cost? Wonder why VH45DE not used for their more robust lower ends? Too rare down under?

Quite intereseting. The difficult part for the headers would be clearing the LHD steering components. Probably something you don't see very often.

Do any of your custom internals come from Japan?

Don't know, but assume the 5.6L truck engine is a derivative of the open deck VK45DE design. Haven't seen any specifications. All VH are closed deck, and probably bettr suited to what you do. Impul has a bore and stroker kit that takes the VK45DD up to 5.1L, but drops the rpm somewhat.

9K rpm on your VH41DE is remarkable. How many hours between rebuilds?

You must have some big rivers in NZ.

Modified by maxnix at 4:27 PM 4/9/2005

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Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45

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1 posts [100%]napier 4-9-2005 « Re: VH 41 830 H.P. (Mirage) 2:00 PM 4/9/2005

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That sounds like a weapon....iv put a VH41 into a 1980 VC SLE comy yeah it just fits with sum carfulmeasurement, mods to sump etc. still in the early stages but its in there.theres no room for stock headers so im making some higher flowing front exiting ones which if im right should give an increase in hp strait off since being one of the ways nissan seems to restrict power . i was playn with twinturbo ideas but the aim is to get it going first. I moved up from nelson 6 months ago,sounds like i moved to the right place huh! MirageJWT POP Charger

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10 posts [100%]Hastings Hawkes Bay4-6-2005 « Re: VH 41 830 H.P. (mak3) 6:49 PM 4/9/2005

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Have sent you an e-mail as you lve about 45 mins from me MirageJWT POP Charger

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10 posts [100%]Hastings Hawkes Bay4-6-2005 « Re: VH 41 830 H.P. (mak3) 6:50 PM 4/9/2005

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Have sent you an e-mail as you live about 45 mins from me. E -Mail came back ring me 8760900

Modified by Mirage at 9:08 PM 4/9/2005 MirageJWT POP Charger

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10 posts [100%]Hastings Hawkes Bay4-6-2005 « Re: VH 41 830 H.P. (maxnix) 9:42 PM 4/9/2005

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I am not dead sure how to work this website, I replied earlier but do not see my reply, so my apologies if I have duplicated .1.We sleeve with special sleeves, this is cheaper than stroking and helps keep the torque up.Using this system The Nissans are making more power and are much cheaper to build than Chevs & Fords2.We have heaps of VH45 but they do not breath as well as the 41 and the 41 is really an evolution of the 45, they have tidied up a number of things and nothing is really interchangible.Our Methanol engine 830 hp is a 41 block and handles the power no problem, so stregth not a problem with these engines3.I have a friend who is transplanting a VH41 into a Sylvia now 4wd. The VH41 came out in a 4 wd at some point and some have sumps with diff mountings and a whole through the sump for a trans axle. I have been following his progress, and whilst things are tight it is coming together neatly. The back of the engine is about an inch from the firewall and he seems to have fabricated a neat header exhaust system. You are quite right we are right hand drive down here which has its own set of challenges when modifying.4. No, all our components where possible are standard or modified in N.Z.The Methanol engine runs Carrillo rods and Ross pistons. Crankshaft made here and cams I think Australian, everything else has been custom built here by N.Z engineers5,Have you got an exploded view of the VK45, I have one of the VH45 only, and perhaps you could advise me of the website of Impul.6.The VH41's (sleeved 240 cu in) are dynoed to 9500 and are raced at these revs ;and more!!!! for a season with total reliability. I would have to check with our engine builder to know exactly T.B.O. but from what I have seen I suspect the hrs will be quite high.As far as I know not one of these engines has let go apart from one which had its oil line assembled back to front (remote filter I think) and even it lasted 3 laps .There are also a number of Lexus engine running but they are not as strong in the blocks and can saw themselves in half longitudinally6. Our river racing is done on a variety of rivers occassionally with Canadian and U.S. representation (World Champs) and we see just about everything powering these boats. Most of the open class run N.A. big blocks (610+ cu in Alloy) or Turbo Fords and Chevs. Our rivers are mostly "braided" and quite shallow you will often be in 6 inches of water. maxnixNICO Supporter

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5140 posts [100%]Austin TX7-22-2002 « Re: VH 41 830 H.P. (Mirage) 5:32 PM 4/10/2005

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Quote, originally posted by Mirage » 2.We have heaps of VH45 but they do not breath as well as the 41 and the 41 is really an evolution of the 45, they have tidied up a number of things and nothing is really interchangible.Our Methanol engine 830 hp is a 41 block and handles the power no problem, so stregth not a problem with these engines5.Have you got an exploded view of the VK45, I have one of the VH45 only, and perhaps you could advise me of the website of Impul.

6.The VH41's (sleeved 240 cu in) are dynoed to 9500 and are raced at these revs ;and more!!!! for a season with total reliability. I would have to check with our engine builder to know exactly T.B.O. but from what I have seen I suspect the hrs will be quite high.As far as I know not one of these engines has let go apart from one which had its oil line assembled back to front (remote filter I think) and even it lasted 3 laps .

There are also a number of Lexus engine running but they are not as strong in the blocks and can saw themselves in half longitudinally

6. Our river racing is done on a variety of rivers occassionally with Canadian and U.S. representation (World Champs) and we see just about everything powering these boats. Most of the open class run N.A. big blocks (610+ cu in Alloy) or Turbo Fords and Chevs. Our rivers are mostly "braided" and quite shallow you will often be in 6 inches of water.

2. I wonder why that is? The valves are the same size, and in the implementation in the US, the 45 revs higher in spite of its longer stroke. Here, the 41 is regarded as less robust than the 45 because of the lack of the lower crankshaft girdle. I may be wrong, but I think with the idler chain driven exhaust cams, the intake camshaft timing is not variable like th 45. So please elaborate when you can.5. I think there is one in the FSM. I'll email it if so. http://www.impul.co.jp/

6. Are they sleeved for strength, or an arbitrary racing rule limiting engine size? Are they sleeved with cast iron liners shrink in?

At 6" of draft, we'd be in swamp boats with pusher props. Must get hairy.

Modified by maxnix at 7:19 AM 4/12/2005

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Brian1995 Q45 & Q45t & 2000 Q45

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10 posts [100%]Hastings Hawkes Bay4-6-2005 « Re: VH 41 830 H.P. (maxnix) 3:51 PM 4/11/2005

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Hihave just finished talking to our engine builder to clarify a few points.The VH41 has both a girdle in the bottom end(same as 45) and has variable timed cams (inlets) the timing chain setup is better, the heads breath better. the engine is probably lighter. One of the few swaps is to put the VH45 crank into the VH41 block. The major advantage of the VH41 is that the heads flow extremely well stock.(Way better than the siamesed VH45). He has just started work on a late model Vh41 and noted there are some port differences(improvement) as he does more work on it we will see exactly what the differences are.I note you say that the VK engines are open deck. Can you explain what you mean here as I am familiar with engines having quench areas or no quench areas but as these engines are pent heads I do not understand what the differnces are.

The Vh41 (240 cu in) are sleeved back to meet class requirements, the sleeves are of a high tech steel material. To run 9-10000 rpm rods cams and valves are changed or modified. To date no engines have come back for a rebuild due to wear, or mechanical failure, it has all been from running out of water or oil.Best guess is that these engines would do 2 or 3 seasons if the racers kept them oiled and watered. Cost of building these engines here is about 25% of building a Chev or a Ford.It crosses my mind if there was interest we could supply parts or engines to anyone interested.(Emmission requirements??????)Our river racing can get very spectacular particularly if you hit a rock doing 80 M.P.H.+ as often happens, however in the shallow water going agroung is the biggest threat.

P.S the stock VH41 with cams will be on the dyno next week so will be interested to see the power and torque figures

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8106 posts [100%]Austin, Tx 7-25-2002 « 12:33 AM 4/16/2005

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Mirage... you should post in Infiniti General. This forum is not well traveled and you will have a larger audiance there.

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[vicQ45]

WOW! I am speechless. I'd love to see one of these in a fgy33 in action!

[elwesso]

zerothread?id=110668

For easier reading...

[Bart]

Mate thats pretty impressive.I was told the VH45 early 90's engine with the twin intake ports were better breathing engines.Perhaps the VH45 head dosnt breath better stock but has more potential to breath better??Whats the go?Great work im keen to hear more

[sijoko]

Mirage,

Eight hundred horses from a VH41 is mind-blowing. Are any of the parts available separately for us guys in the States? I was thinking about the crankshaft. Is it a new one or modified stock version?

Also, you said that the VH41 flowed better than the VH45 with the siamesed-ports. In the States, the 94-96 model years VH45DE had a different port design. It was a single intake port per cylinder. Have you guys seen any of the later VH45 engines?

-sijoko

[Bart]

Didnt Q45tech say the early 90's VH45 with the siamesed ports have better flowing heads than the VH41? Something to do with the VH41 having to comply with stricter imisions? correct me if im wrong.Did i read correctly? did you stroke this motor to 400ci?
Modified by Bart at 8:55 AM 4/19/2005

[zinkie13]

Anyone else see the irony here? Everyone happens to talk about how much more power the older engine produces, yet the most powerful naturally asperated nissan engine in the world comes from a y33! haha

[elwesso]

Anyone else see the irony here? Everyone happens to talk about how much more power the older engine produces, yet the most powerful naturally asperated nissan engine in the world comes from a y33! haha

Unfortunately its only saving grace!!

Its certainly is an impressive feat!!

[Bart]

Im confused.For years I thought the early VH45 was better breathing than the VH41.Is it because the 45 intake manifold is more restrictive than th 41?I was all geared up to buy a VH45 now i dont know what the hell.

[Bart]

Oops i ****ed up this is the quote from Q45tech about 3 years ago.

The dual round head seemed to be a little better in producing more peak torque at 4,000 while the oval head seemed better at above 6,000. If you study the plenum and runner diameter you will see they were designed [resonances] for 4,000 rpm and 5,500 and 6,000 rpm ........the 1.9" internal runner diameter is the limiting factor above 6,500 rpm.

[Bart]

1990-93 Dual port=peak torque at 4000rpm1994-96 Single oval port=peak torque at above 6000rpmSo does this mean the later (1994-1996) VH45 breath as well as the VH41?

[Q-less]

I want some pics of this boat. We are all anxious to see the Nissan motor in your boats. I'm sure someone will host video as well if you can get some footage of your boats in action.

[maxnix]

1990-93 Dual port=peak torque at 4000rpm1994-96 Single oval port=peak torque at above 6000rpmSo does this mean the later (1994-1996) VH45 breath as well as the VH41?

Basically same size valves, same lift. VH41DE is a little more oversquare.

The VH41DE has a log type header, and a less optimimized intake manifold.

[Bart]

so yo

Basically same size valves, same lift. VH41DE is a little more oversquare.

The VH41DE has a log type header, and a less optimimized intake manifold.

so youre saying the late VH45 is the same as the VH41 in terms of the heads breathing capacity?Obvious difference is the stroke and intake manifold.Mirage was saying the 41 breaths better than the 45 siamesed intake ports so does this mean the 45 single over ports are the same as the 41?

Modified by Bart at 9:07 AM 4/20/2005
Modified by Bart at 9:08 AM 4/20/2005

[elwesso]

I think that more/less its just different as i think they are flowing the same..... especially since they are the same internal diameter (correct, yes?)

Remember the VH41 has a 6500 redline or something around there, so its not going to be optimized for 6000 like the VH45 is... Its possible that the VH41 with a similar intake manifold as the VH45 and a higher redline coud perform similarly..

[Mirage]

Parts for this engine :--Crankshaft was built in N.Z, but Crower or HTC would probably make one in the U.S.Rods --CarrilloPistons ---RossEverything else was made or modified in N.Z.

I will have some PICs shortly, we have just completed this years series of jet sprinting, and the crew want more power. We are currently working on Forced Induction (Turbo highly likely) as it appears 1000 H.P. is required.Will keep you posted.(one of the guys here has spent a lot of time setting up rally Subarus and is right up with the anti-lag tech).

[Mirage]

Hi BartI know we have spoken by e-mail, however for those that may be following all this here goes'I can only speak from the experience we have had building these motors. It is more than possible that we have not seen the later VH45 engines, and because the original engines were built for 240 cu in class racing on 1/4 mile dirt most of the work focused on the VH41. However when our engine builder flowed the siamesed heads on the flowbench they were well behind the single port VH41 heads( in fact the stock 41 heads out flowed modified Chev heads from "hotshot" headporting shops). I do not think we have seen the later VH45 engines so I will make some enquiries. My own VH45 is an early engine. I can only presume as the early VH45 was built to power Limos, that they wanted to keep the gas speed up in the ports and were looking for max torque.If you look at the power figures of both engines stock. the VH41 is only 7% down on power despite giving away close to 10% in capacity.Incidentally if you are going to use the ealy 90-93 VH45 there is about a $500-00 cost to replace and modifythe chain guides if they have not been done.The 41 has a better camchainsetup and is tidier than the 45. If displacement is required you can put the 45 crank etc into the 41 block.These VH blocks are the bases for the indy car engines, however despite their strength, things are very tight at 400 cu in, and we have had to live with a short rod engine.

The 400 cu in engine has a 4 in bore and a 4 in stroke

I would very much like to get some detailed info on the VK engines, particularly deck heights, head designs etc but information seems to be rearer than hens teeth.

[Drizt]

Love your work guys... Would love to see some movie files of this beasty engine

Hi guys, anyone have any sound files of a stockish (with exhaust) VH41 ? Can someone kindly post some sound files ? Hell even some movie files would be good. I have heard plenty of VH45's with their siamesed exhaust ports but I imagine the VH41 would sound much different. ??? Anyone?

[97Q45t]

I was messing with the voice recorder in my mp3 player. I carried it with me. Too much wind noise when put it outside the car.

EDIT: I don't know how to attach multiple files here, so I put them on fgy33.tripod.com

http://fgy33.tripod.com/id24.html


Modified by 97Q45t at 10:58 PM 5/1/2005

[Drizt]

Thanks mate... not knowing anything about infinity (we only have nissans over here in australia) what are the stats on your car ?? It has a VH41 and not a VH45 i take it ?

Anyone else got any VH41 sound files/videos

[elwesso]

Sounds cool!

[Falkdesigns]

That sounds sweet! I love the first gen Q owners, they love that their cars have 7 more HP. I still have an open offer to drag anyone with a G50 This is an amazing project going here, I'd be happy with 300 hp (I say that now, but are we ever satisfied, lol).

[97Q45t]

Thanks guys!

Drizt, it's a stock VH41DE with cone filter and dual mufflers.

[Drizt]

Sounds great mate.. i dont know if you will find this as a complement or not but from the in car sound clip it sounds a bit like an LS1.... I like it...