74' 260z + VH45DE; Weight problem?

[Robstar]

G'day mates!

I've recently purchased a 74 260z which will be undergoing a bit of stripdown, rust repair, etc..

I've always loved V8's and I could blab on about why I like the VH45DE in specific so I'll cut right to the chase.

I want to put it into a 260z, a few mates at work and some 'Mechanical Engineering' student-friends, are saying it's a really bad idea, that it apparently '****s up' the weight distribution of the car. That I should just put a RB26DETT in it or something. (By the way, I'm in no way saying this lightly, I understand just how expensive these engines can get)

My question is, should I take this with a grain of salt? For such a huge project, I think not! Please, enlighten me with as much knowledge as you can as to the truths behind their quotes.

As a daily driver, as a car to take on hill climbs with other 240-260'z and etc. Is the extra weight that much of an issue? I don't understand what I haven't done already, so I'd very much like to know the pro's and con's of putting this engine in the car.

An if the pro's weigh (pun intended) against con's more, then you'll be seeing a project thread quite shortly. Please, looking forward to any and all responses.

- Robert

[Olderthanme]

The VH45DE isn't THAT much heavier than the stock IRON block L6...If you use a Z32 (90-96 300zx) manual transmission it would weigh less than most domestic american V8 swaps like the small block Chevy and Ford V8 engines by FAR.

If you have coilovers you can beef up the front suspension with some slightly stronger springs for cheap.

Weight distrobution would be shifted toward the rear of the car in most likelyhood. If you use the auto transmission then you may have more weight on the back of the car than the front.

[David Steele]

The VH45DE isn't THAT much heavier than the stock IRON block L6...

How heavy is the stock L6 ?

G'day mates!

I've recently purchased a 74 260z which will be undergoing a bit of stripdown, rust repair, etc..

I've always loved V8's and I could blab on about why I like the VH45DE in specific so I'll cut right to the chase.

I want to put it into a 260z, a few mates at work and some 'Mechanical Engineering' student-friends, are saying it's a really bad idea, that it apparently '****s up' the weight distribution of the car. That I should just put a RB26DETT in it or something. (By the way, I'm in no way saying this lightly, I understand just how expensive these engines can get)

My question is, should I take this with a grain of salt? For such a huge project, I think not! Please, enlighten me with as much knowledge as you can as to the truths behind their quotes.

As a daily driver, as a car to take on hill climbs with other 240-260'z and etc. Is the extra weight that much of an issue? I don't understand what I haven't done already, so I'd very much like to know the pro's and con's of putting this engine in the car.

An if the pro's weigh (pun intended) against con's more, then you'll be seeing a project thread quite shortly. Please, looking forward to any and all responses.

- Robert

I'm pretty damn sure that the longer engine spreads more weigh to the front on a 260z.

VH45DE is roughly is 19'' 5/8ths long and I've weighed it with starter 1 stock manifold off and no accessories. (picture below) .

I don't have to guess I know the RB26DETT is heavier.


Modified by David Steele at 5:07 AM 12/21/2007

[Mettler]

Right on David!

Robstar: Tell your 'mechanical engineering' student friends they're full of ****.

At 220kg less exhaust manifold, the all-alloy VH41DE & VH45DE engines are lighter, shorter, and significantly superior engines to the inferior RB26DETT.

You'll get better weight distribution with a VH, significantly better heads that offer higher HP potential, much greater torque and significantly greater area under the curve & across the range, and will effectively make your 260 a whole lot more driveable than with the antiquated & peaky RB26DETT.

Your student mates are fanbois and are simply in love with the idea of RB26 in 260!

[Olderthanme]

some friends(Paul Ruschman@ http://www.ruschmotorsports.com) of mine weighed a L24. With an L26 you have a slightly heavier cranksaft with an extra 6mm of throw.

A Z transmission weighs about 90 pounds with oil.

"First contender, the bone stock completely assembled L-24.

Minus Smog pump, fuel pump, oil and water.

WITH;Early SU Carbs and intake manifold, fuel hoses, exhaust manifold, dizzy, damper, alternator, cooling fan, flywheel. No fuel pump, no oil, no water. 389.4 lbs. Minus the flywheel, fly wheel bolts and backing plate, 362.8 lbs."

..So you add 130-150 pounds with the VH45 AND transmission. same weight as a passenger AND you are getting at least DOUBLE the power.

[Robstar]

I'm so glad I made this thread, not only does it show that my mates are quite naive; but, also shows I've got a bit to learn as well compared to some of the users on the board.

Thanks for your help guys! My next step is the drawing board and figuring out how I put the VH in the car to begin with and something tells me, that's gonna be fun.

[Stinky]

For what its worth I've been told that doing an LS1 swap in the s30 helps move the weight towards the back and improve the weight distribution. The vh45 should accomplish the same thing.

[Robstar]

So just an update for humor purposes.

Told my friends about what I've just learnt; Yay for new profound knowledge.

The response I got was:"You don't know jack about engines""Why the **** you want to put a big *** clunky slow V8 in your small light weight car is beyond me""Listen to me, just shutup and listen to me, your car is going to be slow as hell""You'll be turning corners like a truck"

Etc etc.. Infact, I'm so much of an idiot that one of these people is going to 'study' the engine tonight as I'm writing this and come up with 5 good reasons why I should put in a VH and 50 bad reasons why I shouldn't.

He asks that I come up with 50 (or as many as I can) why it should be put into a 74' 260z and 5 bad reasons.

Obviously I don't care enough and the arguement in itself is a bit childish, but honestly, how frustrating? I know the VH specs and what-not, but that meant sqaut to this guy who knew alot more than I did in terms of everything overall. So I just sat there and listened to how much of a tool I was for an hour or so.

Has anyone ever had experiences like this? Constructive criticism is nice, but there is a fine line in my opinion. I think if I said this was a straight-6, he wouldn't of been so hell bent on damning the engine (which he clearly doesn't know anything about) to hell.

Okay enough ranting lol, probably not the place.

[David Steele]

Has anyone ever had experiences like this? Constructive criticism is nice, but there is a fine line in my opinion. I think if I said this was a straight-6, he wouldn't of been so hell bent on damning the engine (which he clearly doesn't know anything about) to hell.

Okay enough ranting lol, probably not the place.

Yes of course me contemplating a VH45DE in an S13 with 5 speed attesa 4wd. I have experienced quite few of those mouths. I've learned to just let them talk.

I hope you've seen these this man has completed one in his 240z and I'm sure he is already on here.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v...lated

[Olderthanme]

There is no replacement for displacement.Even better is displacement and forced induction...

and that wasn't "Constructive criticism" LOL

[Robstar]

I've had that quote branded on my cortex since I was born. No replacement for displacement.

I gave that bloke with the 450z a msg on youtube a month or so back, seems like a nice guy! I've seen he posts on here as well, he said if I ever had any questions, feel free to ask.

Since it's getting closer and closer till I can make this dream of mine a reality, I think I'll be doing just that. I'd love to hear his experiences as of so far with the VH45 in there, especially concerning the engine bay.

Afterall, it does seem like alot of fabrication getting it in there, not to mention suspension, drivetrain, transmission, RWD or 4WD.. etc..etc.. But I don't plan to rush this project in any form, I plan to pay very close attention to detail and do it right the first time.

So here is a holla out to 450z-Marc.

[MSkinner]

Wouldnt worry about the weight distribution.

yes its a touch heavier than the old engine (not as heavy as an RB though) but it sits a LOT further back so as already stated will probably move the centre of gravity rearwards.

[evildky]

there are n/a L28's putting down 250+ whp, granted they are high compression race fuel only, but you could also go for the stroked L31 and get north of 250whp, or just do the turbo swao and get north of 300 whp on stock internals, the L6 is a dated heavy engine but it has a nearly bulletproof bottom end, with 7 main bearings it's rare to granage a block, and at 30+ years old and 200k plus on the clock they are excellent bang for the buck motors, nothing wrong with the VH just not worth all the extra PITA involved to suit me, and I like the servicabulity of the L6, I can have an L6 stripped to a short block in a car with hand tools only in about 30 minutes, try that with a VH

[darinz]

Yeah, every old school petrol head is an expert and a Jap V8 is just a piece of crap! Yeah Right!!!!!!!!I had so many people tell me that my conversion would be crap, unreliable, peaky with no power below 4000rpm, etc etc. There was no way I could turbo a standard motor and get a reliable unstressed 400rwhp etc etc.Even the tuner was sceptical, but has now well and truely changed his tune. (!)

From my experience you'll never regret the swap but I would do a few things differently. (but that is the wisdom of hindsight)

I know for a fact that there are going to be more conversion using VH45 in NZ due to the results I have had. Quite a few are so suprised that they are reassesing there plans. I know of one that is under way that is a 41 with 45 internals etc taken to about 5 and will be suppercharged! I can't wait to see it in action!!!!!!!!

[evildky]

On the question about weight and balance, I wouldn't worry, the front of the VH will be further back and relocating the battery to the rear can further correct any weight bias, there are tons of domestic V8 s30's running around with no adverse handeling problems, I would highly recomend upgrading the very inadequate stock brakes

[David Steele]

I can have an L6 stripped to a short block in a car with hand tools only in about 30 minutes, try that with a VH

But what good will that do you if you're taking internals out it can't be for a good reason either way if you're retrofitting this V8 you better be prepared for this.

[evildky]

short block not bare block, like when upgrading to a metal HG and ARP headstuds to prevent head seapage at 20 psi on an othewise stock 183K mile junkyard motor, how long does it take to fix your chain guides? Wonder what parts might need upgrading on the VH in 20 years? When it's a race car it helps to be able to replace parta quickly, ever replace a bad injectors on a VH? how long did it take? Not trying to talk anyone out of anything but don't underate the L6, the VH is a very capable engine with it's own set of challenges and shortcomings like any other engine

[SSDwellah]

I get your point but if it was an honest to god race car I would hope you would replace the spider with a single or dual plenum manifold that has easier access to the injectors. The 90* V8 is wide enough to put the plenum entirely between the heads, and do so exposing the injectors. It could be worse: you could have the VG30DE/DETT which requires taking off at least the balance tube from the manifold just to get at two of the back injectors.

One of the biggest pros and cons of these motors is that they are not very supported by the aftermarket. Without aftermarket support, VH45 cores are cheap and bolt-on mods are pricey and rare. With aftermarket support, VH45 cores would probably be a lot more expensive, and bolt-on mods would be more common and cheaper.

Robstar The RB26 is definitely heavier if not just as heavy as the VH, and the VH can be mounted further back in the engine compartment. If the balance is still not good enough for you, you can always move the battery to the back (probably has to be done anyway) and get a CF hood. But I think you will find that if you do all that the balance will be further in the OTHER direction than you're used to, because the VH is certainly lighter and shorter front-to-back (less inertia when turning side to side).

[evildky]

who needs aftermarket? custom forged pistons can be made to your specifications for about a hundred bucks each, and yes I'd imagine a costom intake manifold would make the engien more user friendly and likely flow better, I'd love to see someone make an intake similar to the ls style, great clearance and flow, stand alone managment and forced induction would really get the VH going it just annoy's me taht you have to rig a manual trans to fit it, seems silly nissan would make the engine fit only one trans and an auto at taht

as for the RB, the RB 26 uses the same stroke as the L24 with the same bore ans the L28 and the same bore spacing as all L6 engines, so the engine will sit pretty much exactly where the L6 did but most peopel prefer to mount it lower and further back

[300hp owen]

theyre just JDM motor whores.I was one a long time ago.but there are many great other motors to use and every car is different so are the owners.if you do a clean install and keep it running well, you will love it and so will people that see it in person, so go for it. I had tons of naysayers on my LS1 v8 FC rx7 project but it has been tons of fun for 4 years and I always get tons of compliments, not one naysayer has been negative in person once they see it hear it and you knwo if they get a ride in it or get to drive it, they always want to build one, no joke.

go for it, you have the right idea and I agree the RBmotors are just too expensive to mod and maintain to be a fun/carefree DD and track car, unless you have some shop/JDM hookups for parts.

[evildky]

we have a few LS1 FD's locally, and I've seen both SBC and SBF's swapped intot he FC, don't even get me started on the rotary

[T45]

The wankel is one of the coolest engines ever made. Period. More cars should come with it if you ask me. It's very efficient and has great durability. That is....until you give one to a gear head and he tries to cram 82 lbs of boost in it, then the engine is considered junk to everyone.

[RichZilla]

My Mercedes sits at least an inch higher in the front after pulling the 2.8 I6 out and putting the VH45 in.

[evildky]

The wankel is one of the coolest engines ever made. Period. More cars should come with it if you ask me. It's very efficient and has great durability. That is....until you give one to a gear head and he tries to cram 82 lbs of boost in it, then the engine is considered junk to everyone.

or try to get 80k on a stock motor at stock boost levels? thats the problem the latest LS! swapped FD is having, he's already rebuild the engine once, he's the orsioonal owner and he's got 80k miles one it, so he decided after driving an LS swapped FD that he like the feeling of torque

I know the rotaries have lots fo potential, be it n/a or turbo, but when it comes right down to it, there are 2 types of rotary owners, those who build rotaries, and those with broken rotaries, you have to find a shop willing to deal with a rotary as most won't, and you gotta figure there si a reason mazda doesn't teach their tech's to work on rotaries but to simply replace them, and a reason why the rotary is used in only one model of their whole vehicle lineup