6.5 Components to go with massive bass!

[2002sentragxe]

As of write know I currently have two kicker cvr 12s(400 rms each) hooked up to an 1600 watt amp that is pushing 300 rms each to each sub. Because of this, I am not even able to turn my head unit up half way because of the massive bass and it overpowering the inside speakers. The inside speakers are Polk Audios in the front which I like, they are high and clear and pioneers in the back, which I don’t like. I am looking for some 6.5 components for the front and I will probably just put my front speakers in the rear. The most important thing though is another amp for my inside speakers, I wanted to know how much rms wattage on a 4 channel amp do I need to match the rms for my inside speakers? Or could I just get a two channel amp for the components and run the rear of the pioneer deck? I want my inside speakers to sound as good as my bass. I have been installing systems my self for a while now, but I have never dealt with components. If you have any suggestions please let me know. And I all ready know the brands that I am going to deal with, either polk, apline,or JL.

This is a link to my subs in a ported box.http://www.cardomain.com/membe...l.jpg

The amp

http://www.cardomain.com/membe...l.jpg

[Looneybomber]

Each brand you listed has different levels of component sets with prices ranging anywhere from 140-750.00. I can't tell you which brand to pick over the other because I'd pick some products over the other within the same brand, let alone between multiple brands.

If I had to tell you which one's to get, I'd say the Polk Audio Signature Reference SR6500. They use close to the same tweeter that was in the LSi home series. It sounded great back in the day when I heard them. The thing is, component sets can only get so loud because of the tweeter.

The tweeter is 99.9% of the time, the weak link in all audio setups, excluding huge outdoor venue's where producing bass becomes a new difficulty because it now requires stacks and stacks of 18's with 10's, maybe even 100's of kilowatts of power.

Anyhow, amp'ed component sets will significantly help and will likely fix your bass-heavy problem, being that you're only using 2 cvr 12's. Just buy quality component sets and a quality amp (100Wx4 if using 4ohm front speakers, 75Wx4 if using 2ohm front speakers like These). I say "front" speakers, because the rears are just there to add noise to your system and make it louder.

[2002sentragxe]

Yea I am not really concerned about the rear. So for an example, if I were to get these infinitys, I would have to macth a amp with at lest 90 rms per ch right? And would I just be able to get a 2 ch amp for the front and run the rear of the deck? Thanks for the advice.

[Looneybomber]

By no means do you have to buy anything I mentioned. I'm not a salesman, nor do I work for any audio store. I'm mearly trying to pass on some basic information so you can make an educated decision when buying things.

A speakers wattage rating is actually a thermal rating of the voice coil (VC). A VC's job is to move a diaphragm, whether that diaphragm is a 1" silk dome on a tweeter or an 18" titanium cone on a subwoofer. By moving it, it compresses air and thus creates sound. A VC's second job is to disipate heat, because the electricity sent to a speakers VC gets converted into heat. Think of a VC as a resistor of a given value, be it 2ohms, 4ohms or 8ohms. You're basically hooking your amp up to a resistor and wasting all the power as heat.

The reason I speaker may be rated for 100W rms but 300w peak is because it can continually disipate 100 watts of energy, but has the capability to accept small bursts of power without melting up to 300w. Simplistically speaking, the more material a VC is made of, the more peak power it can handle. The more ventilation and heat disipating materials a motor has, the more RMS power it can handle.

A motor is basically just the magnet and voicecoil combined, because that is what produces movement. Kinda like an electric motor.

The second thing that effects a speaker's power rating is the enclosure it's in. It gives it a mechanical power rating. For example a small sealed enclosure will result in high power handling because it will prevent the cone from moving easily(also decreasing it's efficiency). Conversely, a ported enclosure tuned to 35hz playing a 25hz tone will cause the speaker to "unload" and move VERY easy.

So a speaker with a peak power rating of 800w in a small sealed box may be able to mechanically handle 1600w, but in a ported box and below the tuning frequency, it may only be able to handle 100w before bottoming out and potentially causing damage. That is why people will use "sub-sonic filters"

**Know that above the tuning frequency, a ported box acts much like a sealed box because of the dynamics of a helmholtz resonator and being air mass loaded, but that requires too much physics to explain, nor do I feel competent enough to explain it.**

Anyway, back to the tweeter and why it's the weak point. Because of a thing called "comb filtering" and imaging, you can only use *one* tweeter per channel without degrading the sound. A dome tweeter isn't very efficient and can only handle so much power, thus it's only able to produce so much sound as opposed to subwoofers which you can use multiples of and supply them with MUCH more power...plus you get an added bonus of cabin gain. If you need a lot of clean sound (over 120db's), normal component sets wont work for you and you'll have to start making your own using high efficiency ribbon tweeters or planars and multiple mids.

*There is an exception to the one tweeter rule, and that comes into play with line arrays which typically use ribbon tweeters, planars or compression drivers because those tweeters have a small amount of vertical dispersion compared to domes...but that's a whole other subject.

I wrote a tad more than I thought I was going to at the beginning

*edit* I still didn't get everything touched on. Oops.Ok Ohms. Simplistically speaking, a 2ohm load, will result in the amp putting out twice the amount of power/channel than it would with a 4 ohm load. Half the resistance (remember a VC is just a resistor) equals twice the power. (It's actually not that simple since you have to take voltage rails, power supplies and topography, among other factors into the equation, but it's good enough). So, a 100Wx4 amp (rated at 4ohms) would then put out 200Wx4 at 2ohms, thus why I say pick a 75x4 amp if it will be operating at a 2ohm load since it will then put out 150w/channel.
Modified by Looneybomber at 4:53 PM 2/8/2008

[2002sentragxe]

Wow, thanks for all of the advice. I will take all of this into consideration as I continue to build my system. And I am definately looking to get a good clean sound for the inside of my car. I will go with 2ohm speakers. I will continue to do research until I find exactly what I am lookin for. I have alot of bass and I can not use it.

[xckid]

dont mean to thread jack

i have a Q's right now i have 6.5 alpine component type s speakers up front in my 240. And they sound real good with my also alpine head unit15w45 ..soemthing likethat. though i cant turn it up too high with out it getting distorted would a amp help? if so what kind?

[2002sentragxe]

Yes a amp wolud help, but you will have to know if you have 2ohm or 4ohm components and what there rms is rated at to determine the proper amp wattage to use with the speakers.

[PoorManQ45]

I'd recommend the DLS UP6 component set. These are the lowest level in DLS's badass ultimate line.

They are super clean and get pretty loud without distorting. They need 150w RMS each! So don't skimp on the amp.

Actually, here's an amp. The Pioneer GM-5300T is an awesome amp. Unfortunately it doesn't have a built in High Pass Filter. But you can purchase a pair of RCA HPFs for a couple bucks.

[2002sentragxe]

So I am assuming that a 2 ch amp would be just find for the components and rear speakers would be running of the head unit. And how would a second amp be hooked up? my pioneer head unit has two sets or rca outputs in the back, I am already using one set for my amp for the subs, so i am guessing that I would use the second rca outputs for the amp for my inside speakers, and another power wire would be go to my battery, correct me if im wrong.

[PoorManQ45]

What size power wire did you run for the sub amp?

I'd run a 2awg or 0awg and then use a distribution block.

[the converted]

how many amps is the fuse on that amp?

[PoorManQ45]

On the one I linked it's 2 30A fuses. So 60amps.

I don't know what amp hes using for his subs, but it's probably atleast 40~60amps. That's why I recommended something larger then 4awg

*edit* nevermind, lol. I just looked at his amp. If it's the type I'm thinking of he's lucky to get 400w RMS Total out of that thing.

[the converted]

*edit* nevermind, lol. I just looked at his amp. If it's the type I'm thinking of he's lucky to get 400w RMS Total out of that thing.

Thats what i was getting at.