The following stolen from an Edmunds Post:"Thinner motor oils such as 5W-20 or even 0W-20 are becoming more popular these days and are even specified by some OEM's (FORD & HONDA) on new 2001 cars.Although these oils are promoted as "energy conserving" they generally trade a gain of less than 0.1 MPG in Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) for shorter useful engine life.FORD which has previously designed cars to have 10 year or 150,000 miles life has reduced the mileage life expectation to "beyond 100,000 miles" on vehicles that are operated on SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil. HONDA only claims "useful life" as 7-years or 70,000 miles in EPA certifications for their CIVIC which uses SAE 5W-20 Motor Oil, while the previous model that utilized SAE 5W-30 Motor Oil was certified for 10 year or 100,000 mile durability.Since both HONDA and FORD Warranty their NEW cars for ONLY 3-years or 36,000-miles the reduction in engine life expectancy is not a factor.
By contrast Mercedes-Benz recommends use of ONLY Synthetic Motor Oil that is at least SAE 5W-40! This is a recent increase in recommended viscosity from SAE 5W-30. Apparently customer research indicated that engine longevity is more important to typical MB customer than fuel economy.
Even more important is the High-Shear High-Temperature MINIMUM specification in SAE J300. In tables below you will notice that there are "two" SAE 40 specifications, one with minimum HSHT value of 2.9 cP for Automotive Oils (SAE 0W-40; 5W-40; 10W-40) and the other for Heavy Duty Oils (HDO) (SAE 15W-40; 20W-40; 25W-40; 40).
This double specification is at insistence of heavy duty engine manufacturers who have required HSHT viscosity limits consistent with good engine durability in high-load, severe service operation. HSHT value of 3.7 cP or 27% more viscous oil at 150ºC (300ºF).Yes, a 27% increase in viscosity makes a difference between Automotive engine that lasts 100,000 miles and Truck engine that lasts 1,000,000 miles!
5W20 oil
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Q45tech
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- Car: 1990 Q45 342,400 miles 22 years ownership with original engine
1995 G20t 5 speed 334,000 miles 16" 2002 wheels - 205/50/16 Sr20ve vvl
The point is what ever oil you use, DO some testing to make sure that the HOT minimum IDLE oil pressure is achieved under the absolute worst case conditions...........brand new oil/new filter - as most oil thickens with age [after 65,90,100 hours of use]. Synthetics being more uniform in molecular size and less prone to evaporation stay stable for twice as many hours, so the oil pressure will not go up much as the dirt level builds.
http://www.chevron.com/prodser...l.htm
http://www.ftc.gov/os/1998/9801/ashland ... goilti.htm
http://www.chevron.com/prodser...l.htm
http://www.ftc.gov/os/1998/9801/ashland ... goilti.htm
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Mayhem_J30
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looks like a bad day for kentucky factories. Both DuPont 'teflon' and Ashland are located in KY.
well actually the 'freon' used to create the teflon is manufactured here at the Louisville plant but it is sent to another plant, out of state, where the actual teflon is created...just a side bit of info.
well actually the 'freon' used to create the teflon is manufactured here at the Louisville plant but it is sent to another plant, out of state, where the actual teflon is created...just a side bit of info.
Have 2001 Civic and could not even find 5w-20 locally. Even the honda dealer uses "cheapo oil" which I saw under the counter and it is 5w-30! They had no comment.
I use Castro synthetic 5W-30 in the engine.
My brother in law recommends using 5w-40 for all my cars as they do not affect gas milage too much and prolong life that much greater.
I use Castro synthetic 5W-30 in the engine.
My brother in law recommends using 5w-40 for all my cars as they do not affect gas milage too much and prolong life that much greater.
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lessthanjakejohn
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Mayhem_J30
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lessthanjakejohn
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Mayhem_J30
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lessthanjakejohn wrote:Uh it takes more energy to make a car!
but I suppose the short term tax benefit is better for manufacturers
How do I get my quotes to say "originally posted by.."
When I quote I just hit the quote button and edit out what I don't need. That's the quickest way for me at least.
Hmmm...energy to actually MAKE the car. That would be interesting to break down. Since there's so many energy sources used to manufacture a car it would be hard to piece together. Lets say you used 4762 gallons of gasoline in a vehicles 100,000 mile life span. Is that 4762 gallons of unreplaceable fossil fuels greater than/equal to/less than the energy spent to produce the vehicle? I personally would rather have the car go the distance! And in the future...GO HYDROGEN!
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lessthanjakejohn
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oh shoot. I meant to say it would take more energy to replace a 60 thousand mile car than the difference in .1 mpg. I didn't mean it would take more energy to produce the car than it would to actually drive it. (although it might)
In the next year or so I woould like to see the US government create a plan to implement Hydrogen.(not use it in a year, figure out a way to use it in the future, 50-100 yrs)
In the next year or so I woould like to see the US government create a plan to implement Hydrogen.(not use it in a year, figure out a way to use it in the future, 50-100 yrs)
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lessthanjakejohn
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Mayhem_J30
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lessthanjakejohn wrote:Q45Tech,
Are you saying that we should not always follow what the manufacturer says? That we should figure out what is the best oil to use disregarding the small mpg difference so that we get a longer running engine?
Haha, Q45tech has an interesting way of putting things doesn't he? He likes to lay out the facts but never really come out and says it. Don't blame him in his position, stay opinionless. I think what he's saying is just decide for yourself which you want, minor fuel economy improvement or engine life. EAsy decision for me.
Here's the kicker: "By contrast Mercedes-Benz recommends use of ONLY Synthetic Motor Oil that is at least SAE 5W-40! This is a recent increase in recommended viscosity from SAE 5W-30. Apparently customer research indicated that engine longevity is more important to typical MB customer than fuel economy."
lessthanjakejohn wrote:Q45Tech,
Are you saying that we should not always follow what the manufacturer says? That we should figure out what is the best oil to use disregarding the small mpg difference so that we get a longer running engine?
YES!
There are a quite a few threads here on this subject.
All oils that meet MB229.1, MB 229.3 ACEA A3 and other real stringent requirements for volatilty, reistance to shear, temperature stabilty are <at least> 40 weight oils, of one kind or another.
0w-40, 5w-40, 10w-40, 15w-40
OR 50 weights.
A good general thread we had on oils here, icludes a good discussion about oil weights:
http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....il%2A
This started as an argument about drain intervals when I split this off another thread, the resulting discussion includes a lot of myth-busting when it come to oil weights:
http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....il%2A
Here are listed by name and grade the oils sold domestically that meet some of teh toughest specs:
http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....il%2A
A short summary of the threads above:
Since manufacturers oil recommendations are influenced to a great extent by the desire to aqueeze the last drop of mpg from the auto rather than durability use a grade thicker than recommended in most situations, especially summer/spring/fall.
(Exception northern winters, stay thin w/ a 0w-30,5w-30, those are the only conditions one should need to run a thin oil)
Please <be sure> to use the links I put in above, where much is explained.
Fred...
Although I use Mobil 1 10w-30 in my 91Q (108,000 mi), I've been using non-syn 10w-40 in my 84 Olds Custom Cruiser ( 307cid "Y" engine) for 18 years. The "paintwagon" just passed 350,000 mi., still runs smooth and the valve covers have never been off. I don't go crazy on oil change intervals-usually 5-7000 for oil and Fram filters. My daily commutes have always had an expressway-type run where the oil could get up to temperature. Point is-I don't think the brand of oil or filter, change intervals, etc. kept this old car running. This was just a great engine. You can take great care of a engine and sometimes it still won't last.
It still has many original parts which still work fine:Original:rear wheel cylindersfront brake calipersmaster cylinderair conditionerheater coreaxle seals
Replaced:on its 3rd starteron its 3rd transmission2nd fuel pump (fuel pump lasted 235,000 mi)on its 3rd radiator2nd alternator ( 1st one lasted 281,000mi )numerous brakes pads, hoses , belts etc.2nd carburetorAC OEM spark plugs usually last about 70,000midistributor cap, rotor and spark plug wires when I think of it.
and so on.I hope the Q lasts half as long.
It still has many original parts which still work fine:Original:rear wheel cylindersfront brake calipersmaster cylinderair conditionerheater coreaxle seals
Replaced:on its 3rd starteron its 3rd transmission2nd fuel pump (fuel pump lasted 235,000 mi)on its 3rd radiator2nd alternator ( 1st one lasted 281,000mi )numerous brakes pads, hoses , belts etc.2nd carburetorAC OEM spark plugs usually last about 70,000midistributor cap, rotor and spark plug wires when I think of it.
and so on.I hope the Q lasts half as long.