1st of all I'm going to try this with the stock intake mani because my goal is 500TQ as early as possible. If it is not achievable then I will build a custom long runner intake.

My plan is to first build the head with supertech valvetrain and Kelford or JWT cams to rev to 8K.
Then a custom tubular mani with either a S362 or PTE HP6262 running at 35+psi on E85. ( I honestly think this is possible with a Holset HX40(with the BEP .70ar hot side) or a HP6057


For tune I haven't decided yet. I'm leaning towards the Haltech platinum 1000 and have it tuned by RTC perf in Lexington KY.(Same tuner as injected perf 8 sec 350Z) I spoke with enthalpy and he said he would work with me on a E85 tune for 120lb injectors but IDK if the my goals are within the limits of the Z32 MAF. He said he thinks he can get 580whp out of the Z32 and I would prefer the rom tune if it is feasible.

Any advice on tuning options would be great. I think I have the rest of the build fairly well planned as far as bottom end, z32 tranny, etc, etc...

just get a abaco digital MAF the 97mm one can flow 1600hp.

Looks like it's going to be an awesome build. I'm just going to throw my .02 out there.

THIS Turbo

Go with meth or propane injection instead of E85. Not only does it allow you to run pump gas, but you can easily tune past your injectors max duty cycle. This will let you run a Enthalpy ROM tune, the N62 MAF and give you the ability to run any amount of boost you want with little to no timing retard. This will give a huge hp to psi ratio so it will require far less boost to reach your goals, which is always a good thing IMO. You should be able to clear 500 ftlbs without crossing 30lbs of boost or you're not using the correct turbo.

I'm going with propane only because it's far cheaper then methanol

WD

WDRacing wrote:Looks like it's going to be an awesome build. I'm just going to throw my .02 out there.

THIS Turbo

Go with meth or propane injection instead of E85. Not only does it allow you to run pump gas, but you can easily tune past your injectors max duty cycle. This will let you run a Enthalpy ROM tune, the N62 MAF and give you the ability to run any amount of boost you want with little to no timing retard. This will give a huge hp to psi ratio so it will require far less boost to reach your goals, which is always a good thing IMO. You should be able to clear 500 ftlbs without crossing 30lbs of boost or you're not using the correct turbo.

I'm going with propane only because it's far cheaper then methanol

WD

WD, I want 500ft/lbs by 5000rpm I don't think the 3788R will spool that fast. I've seen it done by a S362 at over 40psi. I am leaning towards going even smaller with the turbo like the HP6057. It has the exact same whell sizes as the holset HX40 and I've seen both turbos make over 600awhp in dsm's at mid 30's boost levels. My goal is 600whp and 500wtq as early as possible. I would rather have little less whp and the TQ come on earlier if I have to. If you make 500wtq by 5000rpm in a 2600lb KA-t and rev it out to 7800rpm you will have one hell of a street car. That is my goal.

My SR made 411/340whp when I sold it and it was a beast. Imagine what KA-t making 575/500 will be like in the same weight car with the turbo spooling just as fast.

Dude, you and I want the same thing. Tons of torque right now!!! Nothing brings a smile like torque does. I'm not familiar with the S362 nor the HX40 other then I've "seen" them for sale...lol. I don't know any specs etc.

My bet is on a HTA3582R .63 from Forced Performance, on e85 with alot of boost, you'll make a ton of torque and still be 600whp+ capable

It's an expensive turbo, but you get your cake and eat it too

Don't waste your money on a 6057, opt for the Billet 5857 instead, newer more efficient design.

It will def out spool the Billet 35r but won't make as much hp up top

hey hows it going man lol. cant wait for this build. i dont have much input because im not that experienced, but when/if i do have it ill voice it. good luck with the build ill be watching

GTR PrYdE wrote:My bet is on a HTA3582R .63 from Forced Performance, on e85 with alot of boost, you'll make a ton of torque and still be 600whp+ capable

It's an expensive turbo, but you get your cake and eat it too

Don't waste your money on a 6057, opt for the Billet 5857 instead, newer more efficient design.

It will def out spool the Billet 35r but won't make as much hp up top

I was refering to the billet 6057. It should be a nice mix between the FP3065 and the HTA3582r. The PTE HP billet line is ALOT cheaper then the FP products and very similar in flow. THe HP6262 has been proven to out flow the HTA3582 for almost half the money. I still like the BW S362 but they are larger framed turbos and closer to the cost of Garrets.

HP billet journal bearing- $899 - rebuildable
BW S300 series - $1200- rebuildable
FP HTA3582 - $1700- not rebuildable BB

I'm basically chosing between the HP billet 6057, HP6262, or the BW S362 at this point. The BW is $300 more but I hear they are much more durable then the newer PTE products and can take 35-40psi all day long One thing is for sure. U usually get what you pay for.

The Billet 6057 was stated as outdated compared to a Billet 5857 from a Precision Employee, I'll dig up the thread if I have to

Now the PTE is cheaper for a reason, they simply don't have the reliability record Garrett does. The 6262 def outflows the FP3582, but NOT the FP3586. You said you wanted some bada$$ TQ so the 3582 will outspool the 6262. The 3586 will support 800whp+.

Also- when you say the PTE is half the cost, you're comparing BB to Non-BB, the difference between both BB is about 350.

Forgot one thing, if your choices are those 3, and it has to be journal bearing, go with the S362... the 6057 sucks IMO, and the 6262 will be a lag monster...

If you threw the BB 6262 i'd go that route..

Journal bearing S362 with the T3 .70ar has made 730/595 on the ka already at 44psi. I think I can hit my 500wtq target between 30-35psi on e85 with a good tune and setup. He made 500ft/lbs at 4400rpm!

That's your ticket then! Got a link to thread or graph??

BW and KA-T's get along well

Here is what I went with.....

Holset HX40 pro(60mm billet wheel) with a bullseyepower T3 .70ar hot side. Same turbo makes 418whp at 18psi on a B16 honda. Ill be runnin 30-40psi on E85 and tuning with megasquirt. I'm shootin for 600whp/500wtq++++

This is what it has done on a 2.0L DSM at 42psi on E85.









Here is my shell... The motor is at the machine shop now. Built bottm end, 11mm head studs, etc.... you like the trailer tires. Only in kentucky...

What are your plans for the bottom end to make it rev that high? Every time I mention something about revving a KA to 7500-8K all I hear is half-weighted crank this half-weighted crank that. I've heard the BC stroker kit has a fully counterweighted crank, but if you're going for high revs, stroking your engine kinda defeats the purpose lol. Interested to hear your thoughts on this.

i second that. i have the same motor head as you and i also have a built bottom end with cp pistons + bored out with eagle rods, including having my crank balanced within a half gram and everyone on here has told me i wont be safe past 7300 even still

Marahutay wrote:i second that. i have the same motor head as you and i also have a built bottom end with cp pistons + bored out with eagle rods, including having my crank balanced within a half gram and everyone on here has told me i wont be safe past 7300 even still

I have two friends with built and balanaced bottom ends, supertech valve springs, and either JWT or kelford cams and they both rev limit at 8K and shift between 7500-7800. Both have been doing this for 1-2 years and one of them DD's his car. I plan on rev limiting at 8K and letting it eat. If it comes apart next summer you can all say "I told you so". From my experience that isn't going to happen. There are more than 10 people on KA-T that rev that high with a balanced stock crank and aftermarket cams and springs.

kentuckyslider wrote: I plan on rev limiting at 8K and letting it eat.

That's what I'm talking about

I'd go to 7200 with just cams and everything else stock.

Well hell I've taken the completely stock KA to 7300 before (91's let you do that ) but not on a regular basis. I'm not saying I told you so, I'm just saying thats what enthalpy, JWT and others have told me when I enquired, and I was kinda hoping you had found a solution.

You could probably take a stock KA to 7300 all day but they fall right on their face at 6500ish so there isn't a reason to. There simply isn't enough cam. Add a set of 256 or better cams and you'll be able to move a ton more air.

Yeah, basically just did it to see how high it would let me go, didn't actually hit the limiter either, but I was too scared to go any higher. How much of a difference do cams make with the turbo? Are they worth the $500-$600 when you could just turn up the boost knob for free? Sorry to thread jack kentucky, I'll shut up after this

SX APPEAL wrote:Yeah, basically just did it to see how high it would let me go, didn't actually hit the limiter either, but I was too scared to go any higher. How much of a difference do cams make with the turbo? Are they worth the $500-$600 when you could just turn up the boost knob for free? Sorry to thread jack kentucky, I'll shut up after this

man, you are fine.

Cams make a hell of a difference from 5000-redline. R@mon is making over 700whp on his KA-T and he turns it to 8000rpm. He has the stock ballanced crank, BC V3 cams and valvesprings, and a ATI damper.

http://www.ka-t.org/ramon_r.php

I plan on building my motor very similar to this one except I'm using supertech springs and JWT or Kelford 272's(not that fond of BC quality control). I am going for a much smaller turbo for more area under the curve. I'm hoping that my little 60mm Holset tractor turbo will make 600/500 with ALOT more area under the curve than the S372 BW with the giant 1.10ar hot side.

so you are saying with 272 kelford stage2 turbo cams, supertech dual valvesprings, supertech valves bored .5 larger
and my bottom end w balanced crank, rods, and cp pistons i can rev to 8000rpms and not be in danger of throwing a rod or screwing somethin up?

I think someone should point out the difference between winding an engine out to 8 grand every once in awhile VS. engine's maximum safe constant rpm.

WDs point is also solid though. Unless you've got the flow, why bother? If you've got the flow, then knock yourself out. Maybe some piston speed calculations would be in order. I'm just very leary of anecdotal evidence when it comes to such things. I can't tell you how many times I've heard: "Oh yeah, I rev that bish up to like 9.5 all day long!" And its usually from some kid driving a stock camry.

I researched a high revving ka project a while back. Piston speed is a pretty simple calculation, MPS = 2 x Stroke x RPM / 60
stock KA stroke is 96mm, which you divide by 1000 to get that length in meters, so the equation for 8K RPM would be:

2 x 96/1000 x 8000/60 = 25.6m/s.

Just for comparison, the old Honda S2K that revved to 9 grand:

2 x 84/1000 x 9000/60 = 25.2m/s

So 8000 is within the realm of possibility, even for a factory stock engine, albeit a very high performance one. So basically its not the piston speed thats going to screw a high rev KA, its the half weighted crank.

The load on the rods at 8000 is a f***. The KA has a weakness in the #3 area, I think it's the way the blocks were poured and drilled, but that's just a theory.

Anyway, you can have a KAT making 900whp and still drive it daily. No one drives around at 30+ psi of boost, not to mention that it's irresponsible and dangerous. But with E85 you could be making 400 ft lbs of torque with just 14-15 psi. That's enough to make ANY s chassis a hand full to drive. I remember when I started really cranking the boost on my Skyline. I went from a really fun car to drive, to a car that required serious attention to detail if you weren't aimed in a straight line.

Crazyirish wrote:I think someone should point out the difference between winding an engine out to 8 grand every once in awhile VS. engine's maximum safe constant rpm.

WDs point is also solid though. Unless you've got the flow, why bother? If you've got the flow, then knock yourself out. Maybe some piston speed calculations would be in order. I'm just very leary of anecdotal evidence when it comes to such things. I can't tell you how many times I've heard: "Oh yeah, I rev that bish up to like 9.5 all day long!" And its usually from some kid driving a stock camry.

First of all I will be revving to 7800 with a rev limit at 8K and that will ONLY be at the track, dyno, or if I have a roll race that is close enough to merit winding it out.(there won't be many )

Also, there is no reason to rev much past 6500rpm with oem cams. Even if you have the 91 hotcam swap. Now with some good afteramrket cams and exhaust flow the KA should pull all the way to a 8Krpm redline.

SX APPEAL wrote:I researched a high revving ka project a while back. Piston speed is a pretty simple calculation, MPS = 2 x Stroke x RPM / 60
stock KA stroke is 96mm, which you divide by 1000 to get that length in meters, so the equation for 8K RPM would be:

2 x 96/1000 x 8000/60 = 25.6m/s.

Just for comparison, the old Honda S2K that revved to 9 grand:

2 x 84/1000 x 9000/60 = 25.2m/s

So 8000 is within the realm of possibility, even for a factory stock engine, albeit a very high performance one. So basically its not the piston speed thats going to screw a high rev KA, its the half weighted crank.

That calculation doesn't really tell you much. The piston moves much faster at the top and bottom of the cylinders than average piston speed suggests. FWIW I agree that the half counter weighted crank is the biggest obstacle for high rpm power. Even if everything else is in order, you're fighting some pretty serious harmonics.

Yeah but I'm not smart enough to do the calculation required for max piston speed lol. Took calc 1 for engineers once, didn't do too well

but im talking about shifting at 8000 WITH a (nearly) fully balanced factory crank shaft.
and how much does the average piston speed really matter if we do not know how much the weight difference is between the two pistons? and the rods for that matter.

i just want someone to tell me its alright to kick it to 8000 with a fully built KA once that corvette pulls up next to me on the way to work and thinks hes Mr.coolguy. i dont plan on revving it to 8000 on a daily basis. only when needed to spank those guys in their 60,000$ waste of their daddys 401K plan.

See I'm thinking more along the lines of the front straight at heartland park, where I might be at 7-8k for 5-6 seconds, maybe more, lap after lap, and if I'd still be able to drive 2 hours back home after that kind of abuse