500+ Hours and still no running RB!!??

[accel junky]

Well, today marks the 6th month and 500+ hours I have spent on my S13 RB project. It still does not run. I desperatley need some help and suggestions. I wll try to lay this post out as organized as possible.

Relevant Mods:-------------------Nismo FPRWalbro 255lphPE 550cc InjectorsAftermarket turbo/wastegate (brand new)FMICQ45 MAFApexi Power FC

Whats happening now?------------------------------Tried to start the car with the MAF attatched directly to the throttle body (waiting on greddy manifold, cant run IC piping due to top mount turbo). All disconnected vacuum lines were duct-taped over.

First couple of times was with MAF disconnected. Had to hold throttle at 3/4 to get it to start up and it would not idle on its own. All the while there was a large amount of smoke coming out of the turbo. I suspect it was oil burning, had a SLIGHT bluish tint and smelled like burning oil. Power FC was used.

Second set of time were with the MAF connected. This time I only had to hold the throttle at 10% or so to get it running and it still wouldnt Idle on its own. Same situtation with smoke. Power FC was used and then switched to stock ecu, no difference.

Both times the Power FC was set for the Q45 MAF. Both times the in-line Fuel Pressure gauge was not reading at all, although the engine was OBVIOUSLY getting fuel as I put a old tshirt behind the turbine and out came lots of carbon and unburned fuel turning the shirt black and wet with gas.

I have an extra set of Coil Packs and an extra entire RB25 EFI harness to try if necessary.

What have I tested?-------------------------My multimeter is analog and from the 1970's at least. I don't get anything near what the R33 FSM says in terms of voltages and resistances, quite frankly because the FSM contradicts itself and maybe because I am not electronics savvy in any way.

Fuel Pump comes on as it is supposed to.

Power FC has constant power as it is supposed to.

Tried to wire the the start signal to the ecu, but all I had to go on was an "orange wire from the dash harness to pin 43". That didn't change anything in terms of starting the motor. The orange wire was for the s14, so I'm not sure if its different for my S13.

Conclusions:----------------

Anyhow, thats about it. I'm currently wasting the rest of my money on the Greddy intake manifold so I can actually run my IC piping. At the same time I will replace everything I can with the factory gasket kit that I bought for the motor.

If anyone has any suggestions or solutions, please, please help me out. I don't think anyone has encountered as many problems as I've had.

Thanks a ton,Daniel


Modified by accel junky at 1:51 PM 11/30/2004

[Wulfgang]

Did you ever try to start it with a basic setup, or did you jump straight to the Q45 MAF, Power FC, and 550's?

[accel junky]

Straight to the Q45 maf, PFC, and 550's. I know, not the best idea, but I was able to capitalize on selling stock RB parts and replacing them with upgraded ones at the time.

[RBpoweredSileighty]

i dont have any experiance yet with the skyline motors but i hope you get your problems solved, and let us all know the out come.

[Joe]

you need to connect your intercooler and piping. ill almost bet that is what is causing your problem.

why?

1) you are barley running the engine, the RB ECU's are adaptive learning ECU's. when you reset them it takes some time for it to learn how to idle, how to adjust fuel trims etc

2) you are trying to tell the ECU that its naturally aspirated. its always programmed for a turbo, period. so when it all of a sudden sees a non normal airflow it has to scramble to hold idle, not run incredibly rich, etc.

mine without IC piping would not idle at all. same problems you describe. even when i first connected the piping it took a few seconds of feathering the throttle to help it idle.

[accel junky]

Cool. Thanks Kamin. I take it that you are implying that at idle, the turbo makes some airflow that would influence the ECU's decision to add fuel?

I will have the IC piping redone when I get the Greddy manifold done. I had previously an adapter box setup with the IC piping all done but converted to top mount so the piping cant be run without the Greddy manifold.

Any ideas on the smoking, and lack of fuel pressure?

[Joe]

Cool. Thanks Kamin. I take it that you are implying that at idle, the turbo makes some airflow that would influence the ECU's decision to add fuel?

I will have the IC piping redone when I get the Greddy manifold done. I had previously an adapter box setup with the IC piping all done but converted to top mount so the piping cant be run without the Greddy manifold.

Any ideas on the smoking, and lack of fuel pressure?

I dont know how much it influences air at idle, all i know is it made a huge difference on my car with and without piping.

as for fuel pressure, disconnect the vacuum line and turn the pump on, see if the regulator is in working order.

[S13Sil-line]

Mine idles fine. A little rich but almost the same deal as you. I have the stock motor with an upgraded T3/T04E(doesnt matter because no IC piping.) So I have the stock RB25 with no IC piping and running off the stock 240 fuel pump for now. I had finishedvall the wiring and wanted to see if it would start and it did. It idled well. How ever when I hooked up my Greddy E-Manage it would start then die.

[yellow_jacket]

The first thing I noticed is that you are trying to get it to idle with larger than stock injectors. Of course it is not going to want to idle. It is going to flood out due to the injectors adding more fuel.

Second: have you checked you timing? Have you tried to adjust it at all? Try adjusting it small amounts until you get it to idle.

Third: Having no IC piping should not make a difference if you have the maf hooked up directly to the throttle body. As long as all the air going into the engine is flowing through it.

Fourth: for your fuel pressure problem. Are you sure you have the lines hooked up correctly? If so, block off the return line and see if that helps at all.

If you can't get this figured out, maybe I can run out to Griffin to take a look at it after exams. Let me know what you find.

[accel junky]

I adjusted fuel on the PFC, but maybe not enough.

I checked the timing with the PFC, after some turning of the CAS it said 15 when I held it at 850 rpms. The adjustments didnt change anything.

I have filter-->fuel press gauge-->FPR, so should be right. Fuel is definitely getting in there.

That would be definitely tight if you could come to Griffin. I'll be done with my finals on the 14th or 15th at which point I'll resume work on the car.

[Joe]

I adjusted fuel on the PFC, but maybe not enough.

I checked the timing with the PFC, after some turning of the CAS it said 15 when I held it at 850 rpms. The adjustments didnt change anything.

I have filter-->fuel press gauge-->FPR, so should be right. Fuel is definitely getting in there.

That would be definitely tight if you could come to Griffin. I'll be done with my finals on the 14th or 15th at which point I'll resume work on the car.

wait wait wait.

it goes

Filter>gauge>RAIL

just to be perfectly clear because i know of several people who get that wrong. the FPR is the return side. did you put the filter and the gauge on the return line?
Modified by Kamin at 7:01 PM 11/30/2004

[yellow_jacket]

What he said ^^^^^

The fuel line that connects to the regulator is the return line.

[goofynick6]

Hook the maf straight to the throttlebody and try it, and double check all pfc settings to be sure all the special settings are right.

Nick

[accel junky]

Hook the maf straight to the throttlebody and try it, and double check all pfc settings to be sure all the special settings are right.

Nick

Already did that for this whole scenario mentioned above.

Here's a pic of my fuel lines:

[yellow_jacket]

From the picture I cannot see which of the metal lines hooks up to the fpr.

you may also want to swap back in the old fuel pump to see if you get pressure. Maybe you just got a bad pump.

[accel junky]

Fuel pump primes for 5 secs like its supposed to. Motor is DEFINITELY getting fuel. Its spouting gas out the turbine and also earlier this summer the motor filled COMPLETELY while I was trying to crank it.

[Joe]

if that rubber line from the FPR goes to the fuel gauge, its backwards.

[boost_boy]

Are you familiar with the power FC? If you are and are pretty sure that you've connected everything correctly, be wary of your water temperature sensor which have the amazing ability to make you divorce your project. I would possibly clean the plugs, take a stock AFM and connect it directly to the throttle body and then try it.

Dee

[accel junky]

if that rubber line from the FPR goes to the fuel gauge, its backwards.

Can you tell? I hope I didnt commit the easiest and most publicized error of RB motor swapping.....

[Joe]

i can for sure tell you why your gauge isnt working, the gauge is on the return line, it needs to go inline with the filter.

still cant tell if pressure and return are mixed on the rail tho, sorry.

[accel junky]

i can for sure tell you why your gauge isnt working, the gauge is on the return line, it needs to go inline with the filter.

still cant tell if pressure and return are mixed on the rail tho, sorry.

It is in line with the filter. The line from the filter crosses over the return then to the FPG.

[Joe]

wow that picture really makes it look like its inline with the dampner back in the corner of the bay.

but if you say its connected right, im not one to question you.

[accel junky]

The other shot:

[goofynick6]

Dampener is after teh fpr? that's bad

[accel junky]

How so, I thought that was where it went in the skyline clip?

[Joe]

that is how it is in the skyline.

[goofynick6]

The order is:

fuel filter > dampener > fuel rail > fp gauge > fpr > return line to tank

The dampener does no good if it is after the fpr, because it is there to smooth out the pulsations from the fuel pump BEFORE it hits the injectors, not on its way back to the tank.

NIck

[yellow_jacket]

Can you block off the RB25 Auxilary air intake valve? I know on the SR you can, but I'm not as familiar with the RB. Point is, make sure that it is not blocked off or it won't idle.

[Yellow4g63]

Ebay should be able to get the car running or some other RB people close by to you. Buy a stock ECU+injectors+maf, and get the car running stock 1st. Then put evertything back on, or spend another 800hours trying to figure it out.

[accel junky]

Well. I can't afford to buy anything else now. I'm burnt out, but I think its ounly a matter of more time now.

Over christmas break I will finish IC piping, replace all gaskets, and possibly swaq out wiring harnesses.