5 speed swap, q45

[buttons]

So when are we getting a 5 speed swap kit for 300zx TT transmission into the q45??

I am so anxious to get rid of my sentra so i can get a mechanic special 90-93 q45. Im going to put my NX express kit on it. wheels, lower it. window tint. and just pimp it ;-)

[90Q45blue]

Welcome to NICO. We hope you enjoy your stay!

The issue of a manual swap into a Q has been discussed several times on this board. Here's a couple of links for you. You can use the search function to find more info if you need.

Here's a thread about a Level 10 automatic tranmission swapped into a Q with a better torque converter...very technical thread.

http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....+swap

And here's a thread RE: a manual swap.

http://www.nissaninfiniticlub....+swap

Welcome,

Nick

[buttons]

Thanks, i think i read those threads already... but someone was gauging interest to make the kits or parts for the Q45.

I am curious if there was any progress or a green light for such a thing. id deff swap a 5 speed in when my auto was kicking the bucket.

[AZhitman]

The general consensus is that it's near impossible (without an TON of fabrication).

The auto shifter is nearly 8" away from where the manual shifter would protrude. There's not much space for a clutch MC, much less a clutch pedal and assembly. There's no place for an e-brake once you put in a clutch, and the wiring would be a nightmare.

The adapter for the bellhousing would be the least of your worries.

Lastly, a 5-speed would really be insufficient to take full advantage of the VH's hp and tq curves - A six-speed would make much more sense.

That being said, ANYTHING is possible if you throw enough money at it.

[AZhitman]

p.s. If you're researching 90-93 Q's, be aware of the chain guides issue. No sense buying a car with a $1200 repair bill due the day you buy it.

[maxnix]

The general consensus is that it's near impossible (without an TON of fabrication).

The auto shifter is nearly 8" away from where the manual shifter would protrude. There's not much space for a clutch MC, much less a clutch pedal and assembly. There's no place for an e-brake once you put in a clutch, and the wiring would be a nightmare.

The adapter for the bellhousing would be the least of your worries.

Lastly, a 5-speed would really be insufficient to take full advantage of the VH's hp and tq curves - A six-speed would make much more sense.

That being said, ANYTHING is possible if you throw enough money at it.

Nailed. :ylsuper

Also, one would wonder how durable the Z32 five speed MT would be on the long run. Maybe OK for a carefully driven G50, but probably not for a carelessly driven or one with a higher output VH45DE (another deep cash drain).

[szh]

How about a different way of looking at it: has anyone put the 8 cylinder 4.5L Q45 engine into a 90-96 Z?

I ask out of curiosity ... I have no plans, or intentions, or abilities to do it, of any kind!

Z

[Altiman94]

if it can handle the stock 300 hp out of a twin turbo Z, it would have no problems handling the power a Q puts out. Stock or otherwise.

[maxnix]

if it can handle the stock 300 hp out of a twin turbo Z, it would have no problems handling the power a Q puts out. Stock or otherwise.

The G50 is much heavier than the Z32, for starters. It is engine torque that is real and counts, along with gearing and mass of the vehicle.

A figment of calculation like horsepower is a slippery slope on which to attach any meaningful argument.

[IvoryJ30t]

its the torque you need to worry about.

the same gearset is used in the R32-R33 GTR

if it can handle a redline clutch drop while driving all four wheels, it should stand up to a stock/modded Q45 engine.

at least i hope it will.

[PoorManQ45]

The auto shifter is nearly 8" away from where the manual shifter would protrude. There's not much space for a clutch MC, much less a clutch pedal and assembly.

Have you ever heard of a Mid-engine, rear-wheel drive car? The transmission is at the back of the car. The shifter is next to the driver. I don't actually know what would be need to move the shifter, I just know that it can be moved to just about anywhere you want it to be.

There's not much space for a clutch MC, much less a clutch pedal and assembly.

Um... How about to the left of the brake pedal?

There's no place for an e-brake once you put in a clutch

Um... how about put the E-brake where it's supposed to be? Under the armrest. Wouldn't that seem like a logical place to put it?

Lastly, a 5-speed would really be insufficient to take full advantage of the VH's hp and tq curves - A six-speed would make much more sense.

Um... Doesn't the Q45 have a 4speedOD transmission? I 5speed would actually work better with the engine. If you put the proper gear ratios in it, of course

The G50 is much heavier than the Z32, for starters. It is engine torque that is real and counts, along with gearing and mass of the vehicle.

I hope you guys and/or girls arn't thinking that you would put a stock transmission into the Q. That would be just about the stupidest thing I could think of. If you're going to go through the trouble of making a manual work in the Q, why would you put a stock transmission in it?

When building a manual transmission to put in the Q, I would keep the gear ratios close to those of the 90-93 Qs transmission. To get the Q rolling of the line quickly, I would suggest going with larger(numarically) ratios, and use the 5th gear as a cruising gear, making it smaller than the 4th gear in the Q45 transmission.

Q45tech, what do you have to say about the subject?

[elwesso]

Whatever, just make sure the gearing is the same or lower in final drive so you maintain decent gas mileage!!

I remember talking to jamesmost over the phone, and he said he knew of a guy who has a 5 speed or some sort of manual transmission in a 94 Q that ended up costing over 20k!!!!!

Like hitman said, there are a lot of hurdles, and it might be VERY difficult if not impossible to make it work WITHOUT having to gut everything. If the shifter is 8in shorter than where it is now, that would put it basically right behind the HU. If you dont hvae any dash or anyhting, you could rig up something to make it work, but with all the HVAC crap under the dash, that could make it very difficult..

I would also suggest staying with the stock rearend as well.....

As far as durability, who cares?? If you got that kind of money, the Z32 transmission are dime-a-dozen and can probably be rebuilt pretty easy and affordably.....

[IvoryJ30t]

Z32 trans rebuild kits are dirt cheap. you just have to know how to disassemble/reassemble correctly.

the shifter linkage on the Z32 trannies are easily modified for correct shifter placement [not REAL easy, involves welding the support bracket and control rod]

[PoorManQ45]

Whatever, just make sure the gearing is the same or lower in final drive so you maintain decent gas mileage!!

If you have the money to do the swap, I don't think you will be worring about gas milage

As far as durability, who cares?? If you got that kind of money, the Z32 transmission are dime-a-dozen and can probably be rebuilt pretty easy and affordably.....

I repeat, Don't put a stock Z32 transmission in the Q Get a performance transmission, then you wouldn't have to rebuid it so much.

[AZhitman]

Um... No comment.

I was simply echoing the sentiments of several people who HAVE tried and given up, as well as Dennis's (Q45tech) take on the topic (especially concerning the gearing).

There's still no room for a clutch MC, there's insufficient room for a clutch pedal, and "under the armrest" doesn't help much - it still has to be fabricated, mounted to something sturdy, and accessible.

Love to see someone take a crack at it, but I'd bet a steak dinner it won't happen soon.

[elwesso]

Since we have nothing and the adapter plate still has to be made, why not look into something else (maybe a T56, think CTS-v) that MAY fit better from a gearing and an actual fitment stand point (shifter position, etc).....

You could move the brake pedal over a little for the clutch, that shouldnt be a problem.. Just weld in a new piece that would move it over a little....... The brake pedal would be the least of your worries.....

[PoorManQ45]

Since we have nothing and the adapter plate still has to be made, why not look into something else (maybe a T56, think CTS-v) that MAY fit better from a gearing and an actual fitment stand point (shifter position, etc).....

You love your Caddies, don't you wes. Actually a T56 would be very nice in a Q. It would probably shift as smooth if not smoother than the stock transmission.

When you guys say that it would be a nightmare to wire in a 300zx transmission to the Q, or any other transmission for that manner, what do you mean? I can understand if you put an automatic into the car, but what sort of wirering would you have to do?

Why can't we just get rid of all the electronic crap? This would make things a lot simpler. If I had the money,time and fabrication machinery, I would convert my Q to a carbureted engine. I would make an adapter for a turbo 350,400,750 or C6, and go. You don't need any stupid sensors. Those are just for idiot lights.

If anybody is ever going to make an adapter plate to put a manual transmission in the Q, don't limit yourself to just nissan products. IMHO nissan sucks, and almost all other imports for that matter. Flame away.

[elwesso]

While I dont appreciate that last comment, I do agree..... American stuff may not be the best engineered stuff but its so cheap who cares... IF you have to rebuild every year, the PITA factor is MUCH worse than the parts.....

i was wondering about wiring too... The engine will throw a CEL with the TCU unhooked (but might still drive?? never tried), but it will start...

Your really getting out there PMQ (carb engines, 350, etc)... The sky is the limit, but IMHO, wiht all that crap done to it, it wouldnt be a "Q", just an american musclecar with a Q shell..... It wouldnt be the same IMHO....

[PoorManQ45]

hehe, if you haven't figured it out yet, I'm an american mucsle man myself. Give me a 287 or a 302/305 over a nissan 296 anyday.

[AZhitman]

"Simple" doesn't make clean, reliable horsepower.

Technology does.

However, I'd love to see a 327 with a Muncie in a Q body...

[maxnix]

Carburetors? Been there, done that. No comparison to fuel injection. Like saying inner tubes are better than tubeless, or steel wheels are better than alloy. Just ain't so.

Why don't we all go back to the oxcarts if simple-minded is better? Yeah, right.

[PoorManQ45]

AZhitman, are you saying that because older engines arn't sophisticated, they must be unreliable? If so, that's total BS.

You want to to see an unreliable engine/car? Look at the Q45. I'm sorry for saying that, but we all know it's true. I'm not saying the Q isn't great. It just seems that because it's so complicated, it makes it a little unreliable. The more things that can break, the more things that will break.

[PoorManQ45]

buttons, I'm sorry for hijacking your thread. Ok guys. Can you give any more information about swaping a manual transmission into the Q. Somebody said there would be an electrical wirering problem. Can someone explain this. Will the car run if it doesn't get a signal from the transmission? If so, all you would have to worry about, is making the hardware work, right?

A manual transmission in the Q would be great. At least, it would make things a little simpler. And to me, simpler = better.

[PoorManQ45]

And it would allow you to utilize the power of the engine a lot better.

[AZhitman]

Well, when I see a domestic pushrod motor make the same hp per cubic inch as a new, modern engine, get 18-24 mpg, pass CA emissions AND run for 200K miles with minimal maintenance, I'll agree. But it doens't exist.

There WERE some reliable old engines out there, of course. But they simply couldn't compete in today's market.

I'm not gonna get sucked into an argument with you on the last point, as it's absurd. JD Power disagrees with your contention as well. Your experience with your Q has been unfortunate, but it appears you got one that wasn't very well-loved in its youth.

My VH45DE, at 105K miles, has:

Cams that are EXACTLY (down to the thousandth) in spec with a new set straight outta the box.

Cam bearings that ALSO spec out identical to brand new ones (how can that be?)

Cross hatching is still clearly and sharply visible within the cylinder bores.

Not a single leak anywhere. Hauls my 4200-lb car down the track in the low 15's, handles on a par with a new F-body and will devastate nearly anything on the road from a 40mph roll.

EDIT: Actually, after re-reading your last 2 sentences, I will agree there. The rest of the car IS indeed complex, and there are multiple areas for failure - But no more than a same-year domestic.

I just can't concur with your assessment of the unreliability of the VH - It is widely regarded to be one of the most well-engineered and "bulletproof" motors on the market. Detroit would do well to copy it and deal with the fallout.

[AZhitman]

Buttons, sorry for the hijack as well.

[PoorManQ45]

Well, when I see a domestic pushrod motor make the same hp per cubic inch as a new, modern engine, get 18-24 mpg, pass CA emissions AND run for 200K miles with minimal maintenance, I'll agree. But it doens't exist.

Take a look at the Corvette Z06. Pushrod two-valves-per-cylinder 405HP. 5.7-liter V-8

If you still don't think pushrod engines can run with the OHC guys, then tell me, why has GM used pushrods in there engines for so long? Why did they bring back the Hemi?

AZ, do you read car and driver? In the May 2004 issue, they have a great article about pushrod engines.

I'm sorry, I said that wrong. The engine itself isn't unreliable, it just seems that everything attached to it is.

[AZhitman]

They brought back the Hemi because of the mystique. It's a marketing ploy. A hemispherical combusion chamber is actually not the best design, but no one ever accused the American public of being all that educated about things automotive. I cringe when I see that ball-cap-wearing doofus on TV saying, "Yep - It's got a Hemi."

Z06? Big deal. 26% more displacement making 30% more horsepower than a VH. And at 100K, I can PROMISE you it'll have some notable internal wear. And it won't see 200K without some intervention.

The GM 350 is a great powertrain, but if it had an aluminum block, variable valve timing and 4v per cylinder, it'd be REALLY impressive. Maybe 600 hp?

To answer your question directly, it's simple: GM has used pushrod engines for so long for the SAME reason they have refused to embrace and refine all other technologies until the market forces them to. It's simple economics. GM can crank out dull, cookie-cuttter planned-obsolescence to the blithering masses year after year after year, and no one stands up and says HEY! I want MORE for my MONEY!!!! Ford is finally starting to get the picture (2.3 Zetec in place of the 2.4 I-four and dropping the 5.0 in favor of the 4.6 modular).

You're partially right on the last comment - But I still disagree to a certain extent. Compare my 95 Q (everything still works) to a 95 Caddy, Bonneville, or Lincoln and tell me which car has more electrical / mechanical gremlins?

BTW, let's get your 92 whipped back into shape - What's going on with it that's so frustrating?

THAT'S what NICO is here for!

[Q-less]

Tune in next week for the conclusion of "Drivers who dislike the car they drive, yet sign up to an owner's club as a medium to display their anger, venting on serious members all the while wishing they were instead on a Mopar thread."

Please, go find a list of top selling passenger cars in America and tell us how many were domestic. Then rationalize the few domestics are on the list because poor bastards are buying them obviously for fuel economy. Import cars -Toyota, Honda, Nissan, and even Hyundai are without a doubt the leaders in the average market for buyers. Never will domestic automakers catch up to imports due to the 15 year+ head start and the known reliability of imports. Don't let expense cloud your opinion on reliability issues; just because parts and labor may cost more it doesn't equal less reliable -- the fun factor of imports makes up for the extra cost IMHO.

[qship96]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PoorManQ45 "]hehe, if you haven't figured it out yet, I'm an american mucsle man myself. Give me a 287 or a 302/305 over a nissan 296 anyday. [/QUOTEa

You gotta be kidding right? I had a 79 monza Spyder,with a 305 cubic inch v8,purchased new,and by 50,000 miles it was blowing so much oil out the exhaust,it needed a head rebuild-poor valve stem seals if i remember correctly,and the engineering was so bad,you had to jack the engine up after disconnecting the motor mounts to replace the spark plugs every 30,000 miles-oh yeah and 5.0 liters and 130 horsepower-what a true gem from general motors.