5-lug / Zbrake swap from hell! Learn from me!

[Dori Dori]

There are a couple bumps in the road I encountered during this swap that I would like to warn you all about. Lets start with the front:

The fronts should be a relatively simple process...that is unless you are running PDM s13 replacement control arms and you use Project Silvia banjo style SS conversion lines. I really want everyone to understand my control arm/ball joint dilemma because it is a saftey issue. If you are running PDM s13 OE replacement control arms (w/ s13 ball joints), know this: the ball joints are NOT the same size as a typical s13/s14 ball joint. I learned this the hard way. See, I hadn't originally intended to run 5-lug, so I bought the regular arm. Well, that arm is not built to the same spec as a factory arm. The diameter of the space for the ball joint on the PDM arm is larger than the factory arm. What this means is, if you go to replace that ball joint with either a standard s13 ball joint or a s14 ball joint, you'll soon realize that it's NOT a press fit. The ball joint is too small! With the snap ring in place, it wobbles up and down! Not safe at all.

Next up are the brake lines. Note that I am using the Project Nissan banjo style conversion lines for Z32 brakes. After getting them all hooked up, I decided to pressurize the lines with air. Sure enough, there was a leak on the front passanger banjo fitting. From the looks of it, I thought that maybe one of the copper washers wasn't machined to it's proper specs...it looked a little too thick. I tried removing it, replacing it and removing the other, and swithing them around...nothing worked; it was still leaking. As a last resort, I tried torquing it down just a hair more. Can you guess what happens next? The bolt broke and I was s*** out of luck! I called Project Nissan today and they are next day-ing me some new bolts and washers. Hopefully that fixes the problem. If not, I'm on the market for a new set of lines. Bah for banjo conversion lines.

The rear:I haven't heard of anyone having this problem, so I doubt it will happen to you; but if it does, you'd better have time and a press handy. After removing the 4 bolts from the hub/bearing assemble, it should just fall out of the knuckle. Mine did not. I was hoping a few good taps with a copper hammer would loosen things up, but knowing my luck, I should have known better. To make a long story short, I had to remove the entire knuckle/hub/bearing assembly and put it in a press to seperate them. I would guess it took around 10 tons of force to get the job done. I had to do this on both sides of the car (typical), so that added a good 2-3 hours to a seemingly simple task. I'm guessing that this was due to the extra amount of rust my car has. See, my car was originally Canadian so it was exposed to some very harsh enviornments.

Lessons you should have learned:1. Don't buy PDM s13 LCA's if you ever plan on changing the ball joints for any reasons.2. Buy the Z32 conversion lines w/ the flared hard lines. That's what the brakes were built for, and that's what you should put on them.3. Expect the worst. Thankfully, my buddy I did the swap with was a great help...he had a press and much more patience than I. Without him, I'd probably be out looking for some new knuckles (not an easy find b/c I have hicas) or a new car. :-\

[Dori Dori]

I would like to add, in case there is any confusion about how I stand, that I do not blame PDM at all nor do I think their product is 'inferior' in any way. I should have been more thorough in my research. Usually, I ask companies tons questions before I purchase. If I had, this problem could have been easily avoided. I do think it's crappy that the part comes with no literature and since it's not OEM spec, I think it sould be clearly stated somewhere just in case, for any reason, the ball joint needs replacement...especially since it's a safety issue.

[s13sr20chris]

i agree, pdm kind of alludes to the lca's being oem units.

[crzycav86]

The rear:I haven't heard of anyone having this problem, so I doubt it will happen to you; but if it does, you'd better have time and a press handy. After removing the 4 bolts from the hub/bearing assemble, it should just fall out of the knuckle. Mine did not. I was hoping a few good taps with a copper hammer would loosen things up, but knowing my luck, I should have known better. To make a long story short, I had to remove the entire knuckle/hub/bearing assembly and put it in a press to seperate them. I would guess it took around 10 tons of force to get the job done. I had to do this on both sides of the car (typical), so that added a good 2-3 hours to a seemingly simple task. I'm guessing that this was due to the extra amount of rust my car has. See, my car was originally Canadian so it was exposed to some very harsh enviornments.

So the hub wouldn't come out of the knuckle? I'm in the process of removing the hubs/brakes from the rear suspension of a 300zx, and I'm wondering if the hub will be difficult to remove.... but I guess they're supposed to come out easily. The rear suspension is in really good shape BTW.

[Dori Dori]

My 5 lug hubs came w/ the knuckles. When I removed the four bolts, they came right out...took almost no force. I wish the same could have been said for my car's hubs. :\

[s13sr20chris]

slide hammer with a hub puller attachment. works wonders. sorry to be of absolutely no help, but maybe people considering it could source one just in case. auto zone may lend you one.

[Dori Dori]

Tried that too. Normally, it should have worked.

The ball joint press I rented from autozone worked wonderfully though. No need to pay a shop to press it out. I've never put so much down to rent a tool from them though ($100).

[whowutwut]

Hey Dori,

I'm having the same problem with the hub not falling off after removing the 4 bolts. Do you know if the rear s14 knuckles is a direct fit on a s13? if they fit, i might not need to go through the trouble of pressing them out...

[crzycav86]

Here's what you gotta do:

Put the 4 bolts back in halfway, then gently tap each one with a hammer in a rotational pattern. This will push the hub out from the knuckle. It's really simple.

Edit: don't gently tap them.. smack that *****! ...just don't ruin the threads..

[S14Swap240sx]

gently tap wont help anything when u need 10 tons of force to take out a hub.. give me a brake!

ive been dealing with this crap my self, 2morrow that crap is all gettin pressed out.. damn its ultra anoying!!!!

[crzycav86]

Removing the hub from the knuckle? It doesn't take that much force. I reckon you don't gently tap it, but don't bang on a single bolt or else you'll warp the hub. When I removed them, I had the knuckle/hub already out of the car and mounted to a vise, so I guess it's more difficult(and more frustrating) when you're under the car. I separated 4 of them. The whole process became more systematic after I got the first one done.

But yeah. I say don't give up. Take a hammer to those bolts until the hub separates.

[S14Swap240sx]

exactly another reason why not to do that.. gentaly tapping never gets u anywhere. ur gonna have to hit it with all ur might.. and if u hit the screws to hard the threads are really gonna warp..

so anyways 2morrow im gonna talk with my auto teacher and see if i can use the hydrolic press, to seperate the two, im workin on taken out the hub right now but its dark and cold and the lower control arm still needs to come off.. so ill wait for 2morrow.. btw i snaped my craftsman screwdrive.. yea the shock tower crushed it! nasty! and the whole shock brake and knucle fell on my arm today aswell.. im dead tired

[s13sr20chris]

yeah, do it right. press it out or pay someone $20 to do it. if you come to my neck of the woods ill do it free.

[whowutwut]

I actually went ahead today and tried hammering it out... and it worked!! I didn't just gently tap it, I was hitting it pretty hard for about 5 minutes straight.

I screwed the bolts almost all the way in (rather than half way) and then started hitting, after a couple hits you can see the hub moving outwards slowly.

I kept hitting and unscrewing at the same time then it popped out.

The threads on the bolts was fine, there doesn't seem to be any damage, It still threads in and out fine, I can thread it with my hands just like i could before i started hammering. The heads of the bolts however did get some damage. So the socket has a hard time fitting in, but i'm just going to dremel out the little imperfections.

Well this is just my experience, I tried to get the knuckly onto the press but i couldn't find anything to securely hold it. So I decided to try hitting it out.

[crzycav86]

There ya go buddy.

When I was doing it, I had them nearly in all the way, and gradually unscrewed them. I just said put them in halfway for simplicity's sake.

[Dori Dori]

My car is Canadian which is likely the reason for them being so seized. Tapping and banging got me nowhere.