4WD not being much better than FR

[ESPER]

a while back i asked about how superior 4WD really was compared to FR and FF, and iddnt get lots of responses cuz its probably overposted. but the reason i asked was cuz i checked out a UK mag called redline i think and they had an annual super car gathering event divided into 3 classes (FF, FR and 4WD) and(maybe cuz those europeans love rally) their 4wd drive outperformed the FF and Fr's in all categories (1/4 mile, lap times, slalom, etc.) it was basically lanevos and GT-R's vs. vipers, nissans, supras and FD's. and i read in a consumer reports mag that 4wd only helps with accelaration and not at all in cornering, and some guy told me not to trust consumer reports, i dunno, hehe maybe maybe not,

but i found more and more articles on teh net talking about this and tirerack had this to say, "However, it is important to remember that while the four-wheel drive vehicle’s ability to accelerate in slippery conditions provides a lot of confidence, it doesn’t really offer any unique advantage when the vehicle has to stop or turn. This is because the other vehicles also use all four tires to provide braking and cornering traction. Since four-wheel drive vehicles actually weigh more than their two-wheel drive counterparts, bringing them to a stop or turning a corner actually requires more traction."

i dunno its late and i ma bored..i just dont want those lanevos and subaru dudes thinking they got the ultimate cars haha (we do) haha j/k

[Mr1der]

it's all about the dirt, oh and accelleration.

it might not prove as useful on the turn in, but coming out of that corner it's gonna grab and go like a bat out of hell instead of kicking the backend out.

I'm sure some of the scooby owners are gonna be all over this one...

[ESPER]

the thing about rear end sliding out is kinda true, but good drivers dont let that happen right? oh, i always wondered why only 4wd are considered to be the best for rally in the high end (like WRC) *sigh* i guess 4WD is better on dirt! i dunno, i am just curious as to the main benefits of 4WD, not trying to start one of those "my car is better than yours" teenager thingys

[ESPER]

oh yeah, but 4WD drives suffer Understeer! in ersponse to teh FR tendency for Oversteer

[Mr1der]

4wd didn't really come about until the early 80's with the Quattro Sport and the Lancias and a few others. It's gonna do better in dirt and most rally conditions because it's gonna be able to go faster by having more power applied to wheels that are grabbing traction instead of just spinning in the loose dirt, as far as pavement goes, I guess accelleration would probably be a bigger factor, I'm kinda talking out of my *** at the moment, think I'll leave this to the AWD owners now...

[PROJECTRB240SX]

OK FIRST OFF THERE ARE DIFFERENT TYPES OF AWD.

THERE IS FRONT BIASED AND REAR BIASED AND FULL TIME AWD.

THE FRONT BIASED IS A HORIZONTALLY MOUNT ENGINE THAT HAS A SECONDARY AXLE SHAFT MOVING TO THE BACK OF THE VEHICLE. THIS VEHICLE ACTS LIKE A FWD MOST OF THE TIME BUT USES THE REAR FOR SUPPORT.

THE REAR BIASED IS A LOGITUDINALMOUNTED ENGINE THAT HAS ITS SECONDARY SHAFT FEEDING THE FRONT WHEELS. THIS CAR IS MAINLY REAR WHEEL DRIVE BUT USES THE FRONT WHEELS FOR SUPPORT. ONE OF THE MOST ADVANCED OF THIS SYSTEM IS THE SKYLINE ATESSA SYSTEM BECAUSE IT IS COMBINED WITH AWS FOR SUPERIOR CONTROL.

FULL-TIME AWD HAS LOCKED AXLES TO THE FRONT AND REAR WITH THE ENGINE MOUNTED IN ANY DIRECTION. THIS IS THE STRONGEST AWD SYSTEM BECUASE ALL FOUR WHEELS ARE ALWAYS USED.

THE BENEFITS OF AWD CAN BE FOUND IN MANY PLACES BUT MAINLY IN ACCELERATION AND LOOSE GROUND SITUATIONS. IT DOES HELP PERFORM IN CORNERING BECUSE WHEN THE WHEELS START TO SLIP THE SECONDARY WHEELS HELP TO MAINTAIN TRACTION.

[MasterMan]

yeah and AWD is nice for dragging because u can launch at a higher RPM...

[milo]

projectrb240sx has it down...

[MrFox]

i just dont want those lanevos and subaru dudes thinking they got the ultimate cars haha

Sometimes, more is less. And less is best.

I'll take an Exige over a Skyline anyday.

[Altiman94]

that was a real good reply ProjectRB. You covered all the points well. Esper, definitely refer back to his post for info. In my own opinion, I would rather have a rear wheel drive car to drag race, just look at the NHRA, probbaly 99 % of those cars are rear wheel drive. Just a thought I guess.

[Mr1der]

that's because they have monster stickies and don't need the extra weight that the awd adds. I wanna drive a top fuel car just once...

[krazy skwerel]

4.5 seconds for crying out loud thats way to damn fast for a 1/4 mile. Though it must be an awsome rush.

[Mr1der]

you don't have time to get a rush, though that'd explain what's wrong with John Force...

[MrFox]

just look at the NHRA, probbaly 99 % of those cars are rear wheel drive.

When you basically doing a wheelie from start to finish, RWD is all you have.

[Bubba1]

Well I've seen little FWD import cars dust big domestic RWD cars. My point is there are too many other variables that come into play when comparing them to determine which is best. I don't think one configuration is any better than another. There are advantages and disadvantages to each. I think it comes down to personal preference.

[ESPER]

well heres my revised question, what are the disadvantages to AWD?

[Mr1der]

weight

[JESTER]

Agreed. Weight and maybe top end speed. But after driving the heck out of my mother's Legacy, I am hooked on AWD. Plus the lack of significant tire spin on launch is pretty sweet, after you figure out how to launch one. Which I here is just a tad tricky figuring out (I've only drove an auto AWD.) It is great in the rain, and winter weather is no problem, unless it gets extreme. Just my $.02, but AWD is the way to go.

I would do bad things for an STI or EVO 8. Hell for that matter, I wouldn't mind having a GSX or one of the old Alltracs.

[MrFox]

4WD = dull handling in comparasion to the knife edge feel of a RWD.

[MainEvent212]

that's why you get a rear wheel biased 4wd system (attessa :ylsuper)

[milo]

well heres my revised question, what are the disadvantages to AWD?

Weight and drivetrain loss.

[ESPER]

hmm that doesnt seem much disadvantage to me!! maybe AWD ebtas FR , especially in rain, etc. : (

[RobDET]

the direction the engine is mounted has nothing to do with the "bias" of the AWD system. That is detemined by the center differential's torque splitting charistics. I'm a big AWD fan but most legit articles i have read on the subject say that RWD is faster for one hot lap. AWD is faster in the long run simply becuase you can preserve the tires more. There was an old C&D article detailing this stuff a while back.

[ESPER]

* is better i emant hehe* but yeah actually i was watching some touring races the other day and they mentioned that AWD actaully goes thru tires faster!!!

[MrFox]

that's why you get a rear wheel biased 4wd system (attessa :ylsuper)

Anytime you send power to the front wheels you are going to generate numbing understeer.

[Bubba1]

Disadvantages: extra weight, understeer, more expensive to fix if something breaks, drivetrain power loss, slightly lower fuel economy

But There's just as much to like about AWD too. As I said before, it comes down to preference. No one configuration is perfect.but AWD is definately fun, and more predictable in bad weather. No question

[MainEvent212]

i think AWD is overall better given proper technology (skyline GT-R is a good system, as well as the EVO VII's)

[Bubba1]

Best AWD system out there is probably Audi's Quattro

[Mr1der]

it's been around the longest hasn't it?

[MainEvent212]

the quattro is FWD based i believe...making it no fun lol

it basically acts like FWD until given unstable conditions...as opposed to the GT-R's RWD based system...

yes i am biased and i sweat the GT-R hard as hell lol