4 coils vs 1 coil w/distributor on a ka24de - need real engineering info

[DeVilleL13]

I'm trying to find some real info about this, I've posted this in the 1st gen forum and the ka24de forum and people look but say nothing. So I'm trying to find someone with good knowledge about thing like this or theory.

Now I have seen this done before but never seen how. I'm asking everyone out there how this is done. Not the building part but the wiring part and the theory. I've already boneyarded 4 more coils so I have one extra in case ones bad.

Now can this be done just by spliting the original 2 coil wirers to the other three?

Or is there more to do?

Please if you have done this swap let me know so I can ask you to email some pic's of the swap, It would help me to understand what I'm reading

[Foxtrot]

got any pics from what you have seen would like to know more about this as well

[DeVilleL13]

not off hand i have been looking for some though again. I do know that some people have done it with a Ford Escort coil pack, look's like a brick with all four coils in one box and a megasquirt.

But i have seen it done with (4) stock coil tree mounted atop the injector's and the one in the stock position. but never got how the timing for the firing was done. maybe it was a megasquirt, but i don't know. still looking and haven't had a chance to get a spare motor to mess with to find out.

[mrmarbles]

I guess you could use megasquirt. All you really need is a way to send a signal to each coil so they know when to fire. For example, you could cut into the same wire the injector uses and send the same signal from each injector to each coil. That way, the injectors and the coils will fire at the exact same time. That would probably end up giving you less signal to either the injector or the coil. I also don't know what kind of signal the coil needs. That would also not give you the option of advancing or retarding the timing.

Come to think of it, every car that works with a coil per cylinder is controlled solely by the ECU. You would have to get some standalone Computer I would think. I've never messed with megasquirt, but if it can control 4 coils individually that would be one way to do it.

However, I don't see the point of doing this. Are there any notable gains from individual coils over the original set up? I would think the only difference is that one coil has to work 4 times as hard, but it shouldn't be giving any less of a spark.

[Q45tech]

Many people do not even understand that a charged coil "fires" when the voltage is removed ................less tha a millisecond after voltage removal.

Obviously dwell " charge time" cannot be too long or the coil overheats and fails.

[DeVilleL13]

Now i do know that the stock cap is good for daily driving and in all cases prob the best to use, but i do know that after about 5000 or so RPM's the coil starts missing some of it's fire (shown be the lack of power at WOT). No one drives at these RPMs but we do hit them at low speeds when climbing.

My intent was to find if there was a power gain by feeding the plugs a more controlled power source through the range and under WOT. I an pleased that this thread has had some more real info than the crap in the others i posted, so thank you for your time and keep the info flowing

[DeVilleL13]

this is very true and i commend you for knowing that, most do not

[maik21]

My intent was to find if there was a power gain by feeding the plugs a more controlled power source through the range and under WOT. I an pleased that this thread has had some more real info than the crap in the others i posted, so thank you for your time and keep the info flowing

msd improve my 1/4 et at about .7s ... i went from 14.2 to 13.56 with no misfiring or other bad things.

if u use coilpacks sistems like edis 4 or edis 8 ( ford ) spark will be improved trought rpm range.

coilpacks can be made from stock coils but u will need a power coil controller.

[ravera]

The point of a coil pack is to simplify the travel of electricity from the coil to the spark plug. When you put one coil through a distributor, the gaps it has to jump from in the cap along with the longer stretch of wiring means there is more resistance in the line between the coil and the spark plug and that means you have a weaker spark. The coil pack idea goes straight from the coil to the plug, no dizzy, giving you a hotter stronger spark. On the same hand, with one coil driving one spark plug (or two in an EDIS wasted spark system) means that each coil is firing between 1/4 to 1/2 the amount of times as the stock coil. This puts far less load on the coil, though it probably wouldn't matter in the stock rev band as this doesn't matter, but to put this into prospective, at 6,000rpm, one coil driving a dizzy will fire 200 times per second while a coil on plug setup will fire between 50-100 times per second depending on what you run. As far as wiring goes, you need a way to send a signal to a ignition controller to trigger each coil. The dizzy you have now can be modified for that, or you could piggyback on the Crank sensor to do this task . Either way the stock computer will not do it, it is only designed for one coil driver, and even if you could find a way to make it fire each coil individually, it would smoke your coil driver in your ECM. The idea of piggybacking them off the Injectors would NOT work. firs off because injectors usually don't fire at TDC of the compression stroke, secondly because they're wired backwards (they fire with a short pule of charge instead of collapsing the field like a coil needs) and most importantly, compared to an injector, a coil draws a huge amount of draw, probably double. Even if you could figure out a way to make it run on the injector drivers, you'd smoke them almost immediately. To truly run COP or EDIS you'd need at the very least a stand alone ignition computer if not an entire stand alone EMS

Bob

[DeVilleL13]

And my friend you know your s***, thank you for your time and info these words will help not only myself but everyone else become more knowledge able.

I knew before i posted the thread that i would need a stand alone, but i wanted to know if there was a way i couldn't figure out, i wrote countless equations on the math and came to the same end, not possible. but sometimes there are ways to do things so i asked the real tuners out there to share their thoughts and ideas. thanks to everyone for everything

but keep posting theory's if it can be done though Bob just mashed like everyone of them, Lol.

[Alsontime]

This is my KA with a COP setup. I used an AEM EMS with their Twin Fire CDI box and coils.

[DeVilleL13]

sweet

[slipknot555_666_69]

This is my KA with a COP setup. I used an AEM EMS with their Twin Fire CDI box and coils.

i want!!!!!

[Jeff Taylor]

I ran COP's on my ka24de using an sr20det ECU. You need to swap the CAS disc from the SR CAS to the KA distributor. You'll also need to clock the KA distributor in an awkward position so that the base ignition timing is setup correctly.

I used some Isuzu Rodeo individual coils, which came close to fitting. Made 528 wHP on stock internals.

Jeff

[Drift-wood]

I ran COP's on my ka24de using an sr20det ECU. You need to swap the CAS disc from the SR CAS to the KA distributor. You'll also need to clock the KA distributor in an awkward position so that the base ignition timing is setup correctly.

I used some Isuzu Rodeo individual coils, which came close to fitting. Made 528 wHP on stock internals.

Jeff

I need to get a hold of you, email me [email protected] I am wanting to do this setup and use Nistune to tune the setup. I can get my hands on the harness and everything I need for it. I pretty much want to just convert a KA24de over to SR20DET electronics if possible and tune it.

I would like to talk to you about your setup and how you did it. I am looking for a Cost effective OEM solution for engine tuning and COP setup that I can retain AC and PS.

Thanks