4:10 rearend vs. the 4:08 rearend

Post by **redmanfx** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 1:57 pm

And here we get to another mod that very doable and available to those who dare. I'm curious as to what you guys think of the different rearends(easy now)

What do you believe the pros and cons are and who among you have this mod? I've heard arguements for both and I want to rehash this discussion because I'm eventually going to get one of these.

Why would you go with a 4:08 over a 4:10?

Another interesting little mod is an Apex air/fuel controller a wideband controller.

I heard custom cams for the first time the other day. How hard would that be?

Custom headers with 2 1/2 inch pipes. I want this bad and am currently looking to have these made, but I've struck out twice already.

Thoughts on these?

red

Post by **elwesso** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:16 pm

only .049% difference on the 4.08 vs 4.10, doubt youd even be able to tell the difference.... Id go with whichever one is cheaper and easier to modify..

Post by **rsiwicki** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:23 pm

Pics speak for themselves.....sorry but last call to Unitrax about 3 months ago was they were not doing them anymore. That leaves maybe 450ZXTT (slim) who possibly can do the modification and maybe a handful of others. I have another 4.08 sitting in my closest to be installed over 4th of July week....after my last one blew up after 260miles, I am very hesitant to install another, but my current OEM rearend is about shot. On;y person to put in a 4.10 rearend is AGM in Australia and who knows what he had done to get that thing to work.

A carrier bolt somehow worked its way loose and ripped through the cover......happened very quick and it was not all that loud when it blew up which really surprised me.

Post by **Heath** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 2:59 pm

WOW... Are you just putting in a Z32 4.08 rearend?

Post by **redmanfx** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:00 pm

Ahhh, but I heard that the 4:10 gears are now being done for the 300zx and that the Q and the 300z have the same differentails. IF so then we should be able to get our hands on something.

Rob, is that the 4:08 in the pics?

Wes, are you saying that a 4:10 just doesn't appeal to you? I find that hard to beleive.

red

Post by **FarFetched** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:06 pm

WoW you are lucky not to fly trough the windshield when that happened. nice carnage

Post by **elwesso** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:06 pm

NO it does appeal to me... But im saying the 4.08 and 4.10 arent going to make any difference either way compared with one another... I would want one, whichever one is cheaper. Obivously its desireable over stock!

Meaning if a 4.08 was cheaper, id take it over a 4.10 and vice versa......

Post by **rsiwicki** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:11 pm

yeah....that is what is left of my 3rd attempt at a 4.08 rearend.

There is no speed performance gain to a 4.08 vs. 4.10 rearend. The issue is which type of rearend is easier to adapt into the Q matching up half shaft bolt patterns.

I threw the car immediately into nuetral as soon as I heard a little pop and right as I hit the brakes the whole thing blew up making a sound as if I was dragging a huge metal chain down the road....I was cruising at 60~70mph on the way home from work when it happened. I got lucky that not anymore damage was done.

Post by **RobertsnewQ** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:15 pm

Was that final drive set up with a spacer on the Q carrier?

Post by **redmanfx** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:30 pm

Great! Then here's what we will do or me, I'll do everything:

For 2 4:08 that won't blow, Grab Two NA axles, two pumkins, two sets of wheel bearings. Then I'll have to drill 4 holes in the carriage for the bolts since the Q is a td bit different from the 300z. Next swap the R230 for a R200(Which should be just fine). I'll have to figure out what to do with the two ABS cables. doesn't sound to bad and Slim can give me any help with a simple call to him.

You need the NA axles!!

red

Post by **redmanfx** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:32 pm

Rob, did you use the 300Z 4:08 NON Asperating axles?

red

Post by **rsiwicki** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 3:57 pm

it was a custom built 4.08 inside a Q45 differential with a custom carrier spacer. I have heard also about the 300ZX NA swap and using different half shafts and bearings...but I also heard that the half shafts on the 300ZX were shorter so don't know if it would work. It sure would be nice to be able to do the swap with a factory built 4.08 versus a custom built 4.08 and highly welcome anybody to be the first to do such a swap and suceed as it would provide a nice mod at a much lower cost.

Post by **redmanfx** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 4:11 pm

I have e-mailed Glenn about the shorter half shafts. He works on the 300's and Q's, so hopefully I'll know sometime tomorrow.

I'm more then willing to try this out as it would be a really nice mod! Since the parts are out there(checking e-bay now) I'm sure they can be gathered. Got my blood pumping again.

red

Post by **RobertsnewQ** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 7:43 pm

rsiwicki wrote:it was a custom built 4.08 inside a Q45 differential with a custom carrier spacer. I have heard also about the 300ZX NA swap and using different half shafts and bearings...but I also heard that the half shafts on the 300ZX were shorter so don't know if it would work. It sure would be nice to be able to do the swap with a factory built 4.08 versus a custom built 4.08 and highly welcome anybody to be the first to do such a swap and suceed as it would provide a nice mod at a much lower cost.

Z32 rear track width = 1534mmG50 rear track width = 1575mm

That's a difference of 41mm (20.5 per side), or about .82 inch per axle.

Don't think the Z32 joints have that much plunge, so there goes that idea.

J30 is even smaller at 1501, and the R32/33 skyline is 1490. The Skyline has the 5-bolt pattern, by the way.

The Y33 has a track width of 1539mm and shares bolt pattern with the Z32, bastards!

As far as I've been able to find, the G50 is unique in both axle bolt pattern and track width.

The G50 has a R200 diff according to the FSM.

There is one option - if the axle splines are the same between the Z32 and G50, maybe we can swap inner joints to get the right bolt pattern.

Post by **maxnix** » Thu Jun 30, 2005 10:16 pm

rsiwicki wrote: On;y person to put in a 4.10 rearend is AGM in Australia and who knows what he had done to get that thing to work.

It is a custom unit built by Harrops. Heavier duty than the Nissan ones and has an accessory electric pump and radiator for cooling.

Post by **redmanfx** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:33 am

I just heard from someone that can do the custom job with the 4:08 gears in the Q45 differential. Now they say that these gears are being used on cars with 800HP and that the ones Rob had were most likely done wrong or had the wrong gears. I'll have to check into this more.

If this is correct and cars with 800HP are using it then I wouldn't have to get the 300Z components and have the half shfts modified at a fabrication shop to fit properly. The overall cost would then come out about the same.

red

Post by **rsiwicki** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 5:52 am

Nope...I had the right gear as I ordered a brand new gear straight from Joe and all new inner parts at a cost of about $650. It was just not put together correctly.

It is not easy to put together the rearends correctly so they don't whine or blow up. Just ask the guys on the C5 Corvette forum how many modded rearends they return because they were not put together properly and there are several companies specializing in doing different gearing for the C5 rearends which are much easier to modify. My co-worker just had his rearend replaced 4 times in his 2002 Suburban....starting whining at 60,000 miles. He had the dealer replace it with a new factory unit and the new one whinned as well....the 3rd rearend just plain sounded like crap and now he is on his 4th rearend in less than 4,000 miles and it only whines when in 4th gear....all of these rearends are supposedly straight from the factory and new. He got all his monies back less $500.....initial bill was $1,400.

It is not easy getting a rearend setup correctly. I really do hope that maybe this guy in Texas can do the job for all of us who desire a new rearend.

Post by **RobertsnewQ** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 7:24 am

rsiwicki wrote: It was just not put together correctly.

It is not easy to put together the rearends correctly so they don't whine or blow up. Just ask the guys on the C5 Corvette forum how many modded rearends they return because they were not put together properly and there are several companies specializing in doing different gearing for the C5 rearends which are much easier to modify.

It is not easy getting a rearend setup correctly. I really do hope that maybe this guy in Texas can do the job for all of us who desire a new rearend.

Yep, really good EXPERIENCED final drive techs are rare as hen's teeth. It isn't enough to just follow the instructions in the FSM to set up the tooth pattern - you have to know what each contact shape means, and what the optimal shape is for a given gearset. I should know - I've built several and they all howled like Coyotes.

Post by **redmanfx** » Fri Jul 01, 2005 8:42 am

Thanks guys! I'm taking all this in and will make a decission based on all the info I gather. From this thread alone volumes have been spoken.

I don't really want a weak rearend ala 300Z with the R200 soft gears and the weaker Half axles, but they are cheaper and available. The half axles would most likely have to be modified due to the short width. Maybe not.

The custom job has to be done by someone who knows what they are doing and who has experience. That also doesn't mean The custom rearend will be perfect or we would all have them by now. ONly the differential has to be changed.

Thanks again and I am pushing forward with this mod. Gathering tons of info.

red

Post by **nissanforlife** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 5:33 am

i like the sound of this.... some gud collective thought and information..

i think this mod is desirable by most anyone here.. and if it was to become affordable and doable.. then maybe we'll all have new rear-ends soon.. lol

I know some of you guyz are better at crunching the grearing numbers so i was wondering.. how much difference would there be if it was a 4.32 rear end.. where would that put shift points and cruise rpm's at 70 mph?

might seem kind of an extreme ratio.. but just curious

Post by **redmanfx** » Sat Jul 02, 2005 6:08 am

Just an update:

The custom 4:08 that I'm leaning towards is already is some cars that are used as daily drivers and it's made of all new parts, including the ring & pinion set as well as all the bolts. No used parts comprise this Mod. It can be installed with no other mods. The key here is the installation! This is NOT a DIYR type deal. You would want an experienced mech to install this for you. A unit not installed proberly will give you a whine and can result in a loss of HP to name just a few problems.

I'm not dropping the 300Z idea either at this point. I'm trying to find prices for modifications on the Z's half axles from reputable shops. I'm also checking into small spacers. Yes I said small spacers... Since I'm not drag racing and not racing at the local 1/8 mile track the softer geared R200 doesn't really bother me. I've located some parts and won't get them until these shops get back to me.

red

Post by **redmanfx** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:34 pm

Update:

After much searching, fact finding, pricing, and several phone calls along with a hundred e-mails I've have started my drive for the 4:08 rearend!!

I've located and will be purchasing the entire rear 300ZX NA set up from a guy in CA and will also be purchasing an extra set of NA half axles from Mark in case I screw up the first set. I've got all the info and have decided to make some type of spacers to make the axles fit right. And DON't tell me it can't be done! Can't be done is for quiters. Don't you love Nissan??? I'll handle all problems as they come.

What I want to know is who else is going to show up at NOPI/NICO meet in Atlanta with a 4:08 rearend? I was going to space this prototype out over 4 months but since the meet is Sept 17 I have a time crunch!!

I'm also going the other route, but have decided to wait due to the extreme expense in the 4:10 custom.

They say necessity is the mother of all invention and I say tinkering is a close second.

I'm redman

Post by **elwesso** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:42 pm

redmanfx wrote:
They say necessity is the mother of all invention and I say tinkering is a close second.

I'm redman

Either that or being so mentally handicapped that you spend gobs of cash on a 15 year old car!!!

Red, im glad to see your doing this... Glad I was able to rap with you this afternoon, and I did indeed get everything taken to the post office I like the way you do things man, lets get this damn 4.08 put together... hit me up when you got more specifics

Post by **97Q45t** » Wed Jul 06, 2005 5:46 pm

redmanfx wrote:They say necessity is the mother of all invention and I say tinkering is a close second.

I have the same philosophy. I wish you luck man!

Post by **rsiwicki** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 7:15 am

congrats Red on your decision to go with the NA 300Z 4.08 setup and adapting the half shafts with spacers....I think that is the best route to go and I am sure you will have success.

I will be at NOPI and if everything holds together this time I will be there with my 3rd 4.08. My buddy (who owns his own repair shop) installed it 2 days ago and thus far everything is perfect. It is a real b_tch waiting 750 miles for the break-in process before I can hammer the throttle....but after my trip back to Miami (700miles) I will have it fully broken in and ready to tear up the tires again.

Post by **elwesso** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:09 am

be sure to get some more vids so we can see the difference in acceleration!

Post by **Death by Mullet** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 8:22 am

I'm glad that you have the drive to get this mod perfected. Since i am a newb/retard about cars, I have no useful info but I do wish you all the luck in the world!

Mullet

Post by **redmanfx** » Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:04 am

Thanks Rob. It's nice to hear you got yours installed and that thus far it's performing as it's suppossed to. I certainly will see you in Atl if you're going.

red

4:10 rearend vs. the 4:08 rearend

4:10 rearend vs. the 4:08 rearend

Re: 4:10 rearend vs. the 4:08 rearend (redmanfx)

Re: 4:10 rearend vs. the 4:08 rearend (redmanfx)

Re: 4:10 rearend vs. the 4:08 rearend (rsiwicki)

Re: 4:10 rearend vs. the 4:08 rearend (rsiwicki)

Re: 4:10 rearend vs. the 4:08 rearend (redmanfx)

Re: 4:10 rearend vs. the 4:08 rearend (redmanfx)

Re: 4:10 rearend vs. the 4:08 rearend (rsiwicki)

Re: 4:10 rearend vs. the 4:08 rearend (elwesso)

Re: 4:10 rearend vs. the 4:08 rearend (rsiwicki)

Re: 4:10 rearend vs. the 4:08 rearend (redmanfx)

Re: 4:10 rearend vs. the 4:08 rearend (rsiwicki)

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