350Z 6spd transmission for you KA or SR? Yes plz.

[simmode1]

http://www.jimwolftechnology.com/news.asp

You guys better hold on to your auto-tragic trannies! JWT is letting everybody with an SR, KA, VH or VG30 get their Gran Turismo on and throw an extra gear into whatever you roll!

IMO, this is without a doubt the single most game changingly innovative product to hit the S-Chassis scene in over a decade perhaps. You agree?

[Razi]

I don't see the point really.
It might be good for NA KA setups since all the gears are shorter.

The 6th gear is actually slightly shorter than the KA's 5th gear ratio.

350z:
1: 3.794:1
2: 2.324:1
3: 1.624:1
4: 1.271:1
5: 1.000:0
6: 0.794:1

KA:
1st- 3.321
2nd- 1.902
3rd- 1.308
4th- 1.000
5th- 0.759

I think the most game changing product that has come to the S-chassis so far are drop knuckles.


Super slammed ride height with proper suspension geometry = awesome

[SX APPEAL]

Shorter gears+ more of them= faster accel, I'm a fan

[AZ89two4Tsx]

Local dude is already doing this. He now uses a Z33 trans in his car after blowing multiple SR trannies. This is his car, some of you might recognize it.



Link to trans adapter.

http://az240sx.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=50220

WHY:

I started developing this trans adapter because the market for transmission's for 240's isn't that great when you start pushing bigger power. I went through 3 transmission's in three events and i decided a beefier trans was in order. KA and SR trans aren't that strong. This includes aftermarket transmissions as well. The gears are still small and are likely to break. They also cost astronomical amounts of money. The Z32 trans is much stronger but it doesn't shift that well. So I set out to make the Z33 trans work with an SR. The advantages to using z33 transmissions are plentiful, strong construction, smooth shifting, much newer than z32 transmissions, and closer gearing (so you have what is essentially a 2.5 gear for skid pad and main track) for better power band range.

HOW:

What I did was build a plate that bolts to the motor and then the trans bolts up to the plate just as if you were attaching it to the motor. The plate includes flush mount hardware so that it mounts evenly to the transmission. The trans then bolts up to that plate with a new set of hardware that is also included. The trans bell housing has to be milled down 1/2" as the adapter plate takes up that much space, so by milling down the transmission no extra length/spacing is taken up. This makes mounting/shifter placement much easier.

HOW Much:

Just the plate and hardware is $500

If you were wondering, the trans, crossmember, and shifter location has to be modified. Custom driveshaft will be needed as well.

And Razi, there is a reason other than just the gear ratio.

SR trans and Z33 trans side by side:

[Hoffman5982]

how much stronger is the vq35 transmission versus the sr or ka trannies? That might be one thing to consider for high horsepower car. I would consider this if I was replacing my transmission as long as it didn't cost a butt load more

Edit- ^^Guess that kinda answers my question.

[AZ89two4Tsx]

^ The picture should say it all dude.

Here's two more:

[Hoffman5982]

^ The picture should say it all dude.

^My edit should say it all dude.

I was typing that as he posted it apparently

[Razi]

Holy smokes that is huge!

If I ever got one, I'd need to pair it up to a longer final gear ratio.
1st gear is already annoyingly short on my mild KA-T setup

[asoomal]

The stock KA transmission is geared way to short...why go shorter?

Should work on making an adapter for a T56 transmission.

Sooooooooooooo many gear ratio selections.

[simmode1]

Holy smokes that is huge!

If I ever got one, I'd need to pair it up to a longer final gear ratio.
1st gear is already annoyingly short on my mild KA-T setup

I'll be honest, I don't know a whole lot about gearing and whatnot. I just thought it would be dope to have a 6spd. Hell, that was half of the reason I wanted a VQ30DET: So I could put the 350z transmission on it. Now what's the point really? Just put the 6spd on a prepped KA...

But I know there are gonna be other guys who are gonna need to be similarly educated, like myself, so Razi:
-Based on that gearing you posted earlier, what RPM do you think you be highway cruising speed with this transmission?
-And I'd like to discuss the merits, possible applications and best uses for this pairing. Already sounds like the N/A KA would benefit, but by how much? What about low powered KA-T's and SR's? And VH powered cars?

Also, Razi... could you link those knuckles? They seem certified dope. Maybe we should make a thread cataloging and discussing all the big innovtive products for the S-Chassis...

[Razi]

Holy smokes that is huge!

If I ever got one, I'd need to pair it up to a longer final gear ratio.
1st gear is already annoyingly short on my mild KA-T setup

I'll be honest, I don't know a whole lot about gearing and whatnot. I just thought it would be dope to have a 6spd. Hell, that was half of the reason I wanted a VQ30DET: So I could put the 350z transmission on it. Now what's the point really? Just put the 6spd on a prepped KA...

But I know there are gonna be other guys who are gonna need to be similarly educated, like myself, so Razi:
-Based on that gearing you posted earlier, what RPM do you think you be highway cruising speed with this transmission?
-And I'd like to discuss the merits, possible applications and best uses for this pairing. Already sounds like the N/A KA would benefit, but by how much? What about low powered KA-T's and SR's? And VH powered cars?

Also, Razi... could you link those knuckles? They seem certified dope. Maybe we should make a thread cataloging and discussing all the big innovtive products for the S-Chassis...

I'm not sure but your RPMs will have to be higher for the same speeds.
If you look at the ratio numbers, just read it like "The engine has to spin this much to spin the gear once."

As for the knuckles, it's from DriftWorks in Australia.
Thankfully our lovey PartsShopMax is making their own set, which is improved!
The fronts are not CNC'd though, they modify your regular knuckles to correct for roll center.

http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/page.php?15


I think they repositioned the part where the tierod mounts too, to modify the scrub radius so the wheels point in a more similar direction, so you can carry out long drifts on straight bits of the track..

Here is PSM's rear solution prototype:
http://www.gtfactory.jp/cms/e107_plugin ... hp?5048.50


I think they also said that they'll add an option for brackets on the rear knuckles so you can add a 2nd caliper for your e-brake.

Knuckles like these are used a lot in professional race cars.
That's why you see them at super slammed ride heights but they handle great.
It's amazing that the S-chassis parts options are expanding this much.

[ILoveMyRHS13]

Too bad the syncros in the Z33 trans' are garbage. At least the 03-05 ones are.

[simmode1]

I'm not sure but your RPMs will have to be higher for the same speeds.
If you look at the ratio numbers, just read it like "The engine has to spin this much to spin the gear once."

So, for example: If your stock 240 does 70mph in 5th gear at 3000rpm, with a Z33 trans you'd hit 70mph in 5th gear at like 3400 or something like that?

So your engine would be working a little harder to reach the same speed & you'd be burning a bit more gas, right? But now you have an extra gear! You can switch into 6th and be rolling around at 70mph at like 2200rpm or something? Is that how it works?

Plus the stock 240's ungoverned top speed is what ~135mph or something? How how this gearing effect that? It would be reduced right? But you could get a longer final drive to remedy that... Does that mean getting a taller gear LSD?

[Razi]

No you won't be driving at 2k rpm at 70mph.
The 350z's 6th gear is shorter than the KA transmission's 5th.
So if you're cruising at 3k rpm for 80mph on your KA transmission's 5th gear, you'll be cruising at like 3400 in the 350z's 6th gear.

If you get a taller ring and pinion set for your diff though, you can probably bring it back down to 3k rpm or w/e, I'm not gonna do the math. :P

[breadbox]

So does putting a z33 trans effectivly eliminate having a speedo? Don't 350z's have that on the wheels?

[simmode1]

No you won't be driving at 2k rpm at 70mph.
The 350z's 6th gear is shorter than the KA transmission's 5th.
So if you're cruising at 3k rpm for 80mph on your KA transmission's 5th gear, you'll be cruising at like 3400 in the 350z's 6th gear.

If you get a taller ring and pinion set for your diff though, you can probably bring it back down to 3k rpm or w/e, I'm not gonna do the math. :P

I did some searching and found that Pre-HR 350Z's cruise in 6th at 70mph around 2600rpm and 3000pm has them at 82mph. So if we can use their ring and pinion set, we should be good to go, right?

The 6spd manual has a 3.538 final drive ratio.
The 5spd automatic has a 3.357 final drive ratio.

So what all involved with using a 350Z ring and pinion set? Do we need to grab their whole diff?

[breadbox]

I wanted the 3.538 gear ratio that is found in the stock 350z diff. I also wanted a Helical diff. Here is how I achieved the goal.
I started with the pumpkin out of a 1996 Infiniti Q45. If you'd rather have the 3.7 ratio then start with the 97-01 Q45 which comes with the 3.7
Next step was to buy an S15 helical diff off Ebay. Be sure you get the output shafts with it. You will need them and it's usually cheaper that way.
Since the Q45 diff comes with the same 3.538 ring & pinion as the 350Z I didn't have to mess with the pinion gear at all which made the helical install very easy. Simply remove the output shafts (I used a rubber hammer) unbolt the old diff, remove the ring gear from it and bolt it onto the helical diff with the ring gear bolts from the Q45. (Use thread locker).
Bolt the helical assemby into the pumpkin being careful to put all the shims back in the same way they came out. Check the back lash to make sure it's within spec. With mine I had just a tiny bit too much slop (backlash). I made a new shim out of a beer can and put it in on the left side to get the ring gear just a few thousands closer to the pinion. That did it and it turned out perfect. Tap in the output shafts, fill with oil and put it in the car
Side benefit is that the Q45 diff comes with a speed sensor that can be useful to make your speedo work because the VQ trans doesnt have a speedo sensor like the stock trans did.
When doing an engine and trans swap you will need a new driveshaft. I would recomend Doing the rear end swap before making the driveshaft as the Q45 diff is a long nose diff which is about a half inch longer than the stock R200 diff and it uses a larger input flange.
This is a much easier swap than fabricating a 350Z into a 240sx and you end up with a helical diff instead of a Viscous diff with the same gear ratio. Hope this helps someone. John

maybe thats what you want? First result in google for z33 diff into s13

OR this z33 into 240sx
http://dennismertzanis.com/2010/02/21/3 ... o-a-240sx/

[simmode1]

^^^Nice find! Sounds like exactly what we need to make this worthwhile...

Also, the cd009 transmission is apparently the one we should be looking for to avoid the syncro problems that the Pre-Revups had. The older transmissions can be bought for around $200 to $300. The cd009's are ALOT more though...

[breadbox]

yeah saw on craigs a trans for $400 but I dont want to pay that much for it. 1700 for a long block and trans.

[asoomal]

Can't we just stick in any R200 ring and pinion gear sets in the stock diff?

[breadbox]

You COULD but messing with the ring and pinion is alot of work to have it right. Which is why most people don't touch them.

[simmode1]

Can't we just stick in any R200 ring and pinion gear sets in the stock diff?

You're gonna want the speed sensor that the Q45 diff gives you. Otherwise you'll be running without one. No idea what the wiring for that is gonna be like. The complexities of this idea are now starting to hit me. Still want though.

[breadbox]

yeah been trying to work it out as well. I want a vq swap, but I'd settle for the time being just dropping the auto for a 6 speed +LSD.

[simmode1]

Well, I DID want a VQ swap... mainly for 2 reasons: the 6spd trans and shaving about 50lbs from the nose end of the car. With this available, the only benefit of the VQ now is weight savings, IMO. They're just too complex to make it worth it to me with this now available...

Now, I'd rather do this transmission swap with the close gearing while I'm still NA to see how that feels. Then later, I'd want to throw a small amount of boost at the motor. Maybe 6 to 8 psi with an inexpensive but safe T3/T04 setup on stock internals. Should be deceptively quick yet easy on the motor. If that's too much for sticky tires to handle, then I'll go for the Q45 lsd swap.

[breadbox]

I was on ebaymotors looking up motors and found a 4.0l Supercharged inline 6 out of an XJR for $275 and for about 10minutes I was entertaining that swap as an option.

[Razi]

No you won't be driving at 2k rpm at 70mph.
The 350z's 6th gear is shorter than the KA transmission's 5th.
So if you're cruising at 3k rpm for 80mph on your KA transmission's 5th gear, you'll be cruising at like 3400 in the 350z's 6th gear.

If you get a taller ring and pinion set for your diff though, you can probably bring it back down to 3k rpm or w/e, I'm not gonna do the math. :P

I did some searching and found that Pre-HR 350Z's cruise in 6th at 70mph around 2600rpm and 3000pm has them at 82mph. So if we can use their ring and pinion set, we should be good to go, right?

The 6spd manual has a 3.538 final drive ratio.
The 5spd automatic has a 3.357 final drive ratio.

So what all involved with using a 350Z ring and pinion set? Do we need to grab their whole diff?

Probably.

But like breadbox posted, it looks like you gotta modify the subframe.

All our cars use the R200 diff case though, I wonder if you can swap the 350z diff guts into a 240sx one so you don't need to modify the subframe.
I'd love the 350z's final ratio haha.
Then I could probably cruise at 80mph without going over 3000rpm.
And my 1st gear could actually be useful at WOT.

[OutToWinPAHC]

Syncros are problematic yes.
The final drive for a z33 6 speed is suckage. I can cruise 90mph under 2.2K RPM

I still like the Z32, or the T56 swap (yes it can be done)

[AZ89two4Tsx]

Some of you guys seem to be missing the point.

If you're doing this to make highway driving better, you're not getting it. That can easily be accomplished by changing your final drive ratio, not the whole transmission. A J30 diff is a great cost-effective option. The 350Z accomplishes a nice highway drive by having the rear end geared higher.

What this swap IS good for is the added strength of the 350z transmission, gear wise. If you're hard on the car ALL the time, and are making big power, you NEED a stronger trans. Plus, I imagine the clutch setup is superior as well.

Doing this just for highway driving is not cost-effective at all. You'd be wasting your money.

[simmode1]

^^^I'm not gonna lie. Imma totally pull the ricer card and say I want one just cuz. And yes, I'd be willing to pay decent money to make it happen. From looking at the similar Zilvia thread, the cost doesn't seem like it would be that unreasonable.

The final drive for a z33 6 speed is suckage.

Clarify, plz.

Because I think stock KA transmissions final drive is greater suckage. The Z33 trans may not have the following that the T56, but more options is always a good thing, IMO.

I would like to see some weight comparisons between the 3 transmissions. Anybody got any figures?

[AZ89two4Tsx]

He's (PAHC) not talking about the quality/durability of the trans, he just doesn't like how tall it's geared. For example, if you have a stock 240 and all you have done to it is change the trans to a Z33, when you're cruising at 65, you'll be at a higher rpm than a stock transmission. If you're at 3000rpm stock, you'll be around probably 3200rpm with the Z33 trans.

All these numbers can be manipulated though with a different gear ratio in your differential though. Both will combine to create what's known as the final drive ratio

This is a good link:
http://teamassociated.com/pdf/cars_and_ ... ratios.pdf

I would assume the reason the gears on the 350z are so close together is because it's such a high revving engine and it needs to stay in its powerband. A T-56 found in LS motors seems to be spread out more, I'm also assuming because it, being a V8, has a more flat torque curve and can handle it. Don't quote me on that though.... I'm far from an engineer.