300ZX Bose system discussion

[Valdis]

BTW, the Bose speakers don't crackle, it's the amplifiers in the boxes which fail. The capacitors on the board typically leak (not uncommon after 20 years of an automotive environment).

Yeah, they're junk... get 'em out of there!!

"No Highs, No Lows... Must be Bose!!"

[BigTDogg (MA)]

BTW, the Bose speakers don't crackle, it's the amplifiers in the boxes which fail. The capacitors on the board typically leak (not uncommon after 20 years of an automotive environment).

Yeah, they're junk... get 'em out of there!!

"No Highs, No Lows... Must be Bose!!"

I'm going to post a quick aside which I'll delete later to clean up this thread as we turn it in to an FAQ type article.

The shortcomings of the Z32 Bose sound system are both Bose AND Nissan's fault. As is the Z33 system. Having worked there for 6 years I have intimate knowledge of the subject. Bose did propose a subwoofer system similar to the FD RX-7 waveguide system for the Z32. However, Nissan shot it down saying they didn't want to lose the trunk space and found the 5 speaker Bose system to be "good enough"

Placement of the subwoofer and tweeters in a Z33; also Nissan's doing. You can only design and DSP so much with your hands tied by your customer.

As for the frequency response of their systems, the "No Highs, No Lows... Must be Bose!!" came about from their older home theater systems/stereo systems. In many blind sound tests of various potential customers, Bose found that more than 90% of the population tested couldn't hear sounds above 15kHz. Therefore they designed the systems to go from 30Hz to 15kHz and saved the processor, board space, and speaker technology for better "effects" rather than producing the 5kHz most of their potential audience couldn't hear. Their newer stuff does a full 20-20 response because of the Dolby Digital processing, but the old stigma is still repeated often.

[Valdis]

The shortcomings of the Z32 Bose sound system are both Bose AND Nissan's fault. As is the Z33 system. Having worked there for 6 years I have intimate knowledge of the subject. Bose did propose a subwoofer system similar to the FD RX-7 waveguide system for the Z32. However, Nissan shot it down saying they didn't want to lose the trunk space and found the 5 speaker Bose system to be "good enough"

Placement of the subwoofer and tweeters in a Z33; also Nissan's doing. You can only design and DSP so much with your hands tied by your customer.

As for the frequency response of their systems, the "No Highs, No Lows... Must be Bose!!" came about from their older home theater systems/stereo systems. In many blind sound tests of various potential customers, Bose found that more than 90% of the population tested couldn't hear sounds above 15kHz. Therefore they designed the systems to go from 30Hz to 15kHz and saved the processor, board space, and speaker technology for better "effects" rather than producing the 5kHz most of their potential audience couldn't hear. Their newer stuff does a full 20-20 response because of the Dolby Digital processing, but the old stigma is still repeated often.

The comment I made was not about the frequency response per se (I quoted a very common phrase used when Bose is mentioned, and it has more flash than simply saying "Bose Sucks" ). You are correct about the term being used in home theater forums every time Bose is brought into the conversation, because it's true. You can go and buy the most expensive Bose system you can find and it won't come anywhere close to the Home Theater system I have, and I would have spent much less money getting mine.

In terms of frequency response, I don't care what frequencies Bose can play because they all sound like crap. Just because 2 speakers can play 20khz doesn't mean they sound the same. As far as the shortcomings of the Z32 Bose sound system, it doesn't matter what Nissan would/wouldn't allow, if 5 speakers can't fill a car like that with high quality sound.. the issue is with Bose. My HT center channel alone produces 10x the sound and 10x the quality, for the same price.

The issue with Bose is not the quality of speakers, overall their quality is good (that's being generous)... not very good, excellent or superior, just good. The problem with that is the cost, the cost is outrageous when compared to speakers of the same sound quality. Speakers with the same sound quality of Bose cost much less. If you compare price to price, you can get speakers that are MUCH MUCH better than Bose. Like the speakers I have for instance. There is plenty of room in the low-mid range auto/home audio class, it's just a joke that Bose tries to claim they are "high end" when they clearly are not.

If Bose would spend their money on their product instead of spending it on commercials, spreading misinformation.. they could actually have some very good speakers... but instead they are overpriced, hyped up by advertising, have poor sound and have low quality components.
I must add, if you are used to low quality speakers, Bose will blow you away. But if you're an audiophile, you'll be able to tell right off that they just don't stack up.

[BlackWidowZ]

I'm with you there bud. I know there are a lot of purists out there that want their 300zx to be totally stock even down to the stereo. There are even people out there who buy Z that had the steros changed then want to put them back to stock.

Thats fine whatever the reality is though The DACs in the stock HU are very low quality. The speakers are paper. The wiring is substandard. And the amps are just low quality. Your not preserving anything worth saving I'm sorry.

If it was a 1960 juke box that played 45s "records" or a marantz tube amplifier or a really cool old fasioned mic that is different but were talking about junk here its not even the same category as antique electronics.

I know im sounding really bad and I apologize but its the truth.

[Valdis]

I'm with you there bud. I know there are a lot of purists out there that want their 300zx to be totally stock even down to the stereo. There are even people out there who buy Z that had the steros changed then want to put them back to stock.

Thats fine whatever the reality is though The DACs in the stock HU are very low quality. The speakers are paper. The wiring is substandard. And the amps are just low quality. Your not preserving anything worth saving I'm sorry.

If it was a 1960 juke box that played 45s "records" or a marantz tube amplifier or a really cool old fasioned mic that is different but were talking about junk here its not even the same category as antique electronics.

I know im sounding really bad and I apologize but its the truth.

No need to apologize, you're spot on.

The Infinities will be a nice upgrade. I'm looking at Focals myself, but man they are expensive.. lol
Do you need shallow mount speakers for the doors also or just the rear?

[BigTDogg (MA)]

The comment I made was not about the frequency response per se (I quoted a very common phrase used when Bose is mentioned, and it has more flash than simply saying "Bose Sucks" ). You are correct about the term being used in home theater forums every time Bose is brought into the conversation, because it's true. You can go and buy the most expensive Bose system you can find and it won't come anywhere close to the Home Theater system I have, and I would have spent much less money getting mine.

Because the Lifestyle systems and what you have for a home theater are designed for two different people. Bose's clientele are relatively wealthy, not audiophiles, and generally want a simple solution. That's why they have all kinds of dumbed down connection guides.

In terms of frequency response, I don't care what frequencies Bose can play because they all sound like crap. Just because 2 speakers can play 20khz doesn't mean they sound the same. As far as the shortcomings of the Z32 Bose sound system, it doesn't matter what Nissan would/wouldn't allow, if 5 speakers can't fill a car like that with high quality sound.. the issue is with Bose. My HT center channel alone produces 10x the sound and 10x the quality, for the same price.

That's just false. If Nissan didn't want to spend more money, or concede more space, then it's also Nissan's fault. There is only so much which can be done with 4" drivers. What home theater are you running out of curiosity?

If anyone on this board has heard a Bose CD system in a new/extremely low mileage stock Z32, you'll know that it sounds very good for it's time period and application. With the t-tops open, it gets washed out nearly immediately. 20 years later, Bose has active noise compensation with microphones for sunroof, convertible and targa/t-top applications.

The issue with Bose is not the quality of speakers, overall their quality is good (that's being generous)... not very good, excellent or superior, just good. The problem with that is the cost, the cost is outrageous when compared to speakers of the same sound quality. Speakers with the same sound quality of Bose cost much less. If you compare price to price, you can get speakers that are MUCH MUCH better than Bose. Like the speakers I have for instance. There is plenty of room in the low-mid range auto/home audio class, it's just a joke that Bose tries to claim they are "high end" when they clearly are not.

No argument from me here. They're stuff is TERRIBLY overpriced. Always has been, always will be. I tried suggesting they have an "American spirit" sale in fall of 2008 for the holiday season after the stock market collapse; 20% off all prices for the holiday season. It was rejected, and I was astounded at the ego on the marketing people at that company. The result? Lower than expected profits and a company-wide shedding of 11% of the workforce on Obama's inauguration day (coincidence, I'm sure).

If Bose would spend their money on their product instead of spending it on commercials, spreading misinformation.. they could actually have some very good speakers... but instead they are overpriced, hyped up by advertising, have poor sound and have low quality components.
I must add, if you are used to low quality speakers, Bose will blow you away. But if you're an audiophile, you'll be able to tell right off that they just don't stack up.

They're not for audiophiles, that much is clear. But the components they use are not low quality, and their speaker are decent for the intended consumer. There is a TON behind the scenes that the public won't see. One example is their Thunderwoofer, which was used in their bass cannons for theaters. It was operated in the bunker at 40Hz, 40 volts, continuous for 7 1/2 years. That's not a typo, years, until the dustcap finally blew off. There are many brilliant engineers there, and plenty of cool products, but the marketing group will castrate any real quality/cool product from hitting the market at a reasonable price point.

Thats fine whatever the reality is though The DACs in the stock HU are very low quality. The speakers are paper. The wiring is substandard. And the amps are just low quality. Your not preserving anything worth saving I'm sorry.

The stock HU was made by Clarion, again, to a price point. Paper is one of the best materials for speaker cones, and some of the best sounding speakers use paper pulp cones for their natural internal dampening. The wiring? It's 18 AWG copper wire what more do you want? The amps are swamps, yes, so the sound quality suffers at the expense of efficiency and space saving. The ONLY reason to keep the OEM system, IMHO, is to compete in the Stock class at a ZCCA show, or if you want to keep the car as a museum piece. That's it.

[Valdis]

Because the Lifestyle systems and what you have for a home theater are designed for two different people. Bose's clientele are relatively wealthy, not audiophiles, and generally want a simple solution. That's why they have all kinds of dumbed down connection guides.

"relatively wealthy"... what does that mean exactly? If you consider people who are tone deaf and like to waste their money "relatively wealthy" then I'll give you that.
When I was 19 one of my roommates (who was also 19) had a Bose surround sound system, so they are not for wealthy people... they are for ignorant/uneducated (in terms of audio equipment) people. Back then I had a pair of Cerwin Vega RE-30's that blew the Bose out of the water.. LOL!

That's just false. If Nissan didn't want to spend more money, or concede more space, then it's also Nissan's fault. There is only so much which can be done with 4" drivers. What home theater are you running out of curiosity?

We'll just have to disagree on this.

As far as my HT.. I'm currently running a 5.2 setup:
L/R = Paradigm Studio 60's
Center= Paradigm Studio CC-590
Side = Paradigm ADP-590's
Subs = (1) SVS PC12-NSD, (1) SVS PC12-Ultra
AVR = Onkyo TX-SR805
42" Panasonic Plasma
Looking at a 3D Projector... either an Epson 6020 or 6010

Focal Polyglass components fit just fine up front with 1/2" MDF spacers, what series Focals are you looking at?

Not sure now, just found out that I need shallow mount speakers... so I'll check them out. I was looking at component speakers for the doors, I just need to decide on a price and go with it. They range from $300-$3000 so whatever I feel like spending.

[Valdis]

But my first hand experience on this subject trumps your outside opinion

That's failed logic.... I've bailed someone out of jail before, does that mean I have first hand knowledge of being a judge and lawyer now?? I'll need to update my resume.

You can go and buy the most expensive Bose system you can find and it won't come anywhere close to the Home Theater system I have, and I would have spent much less money getting mine.

As far as my HT.. I'm currently running a 5.2 setup:
L/R = Paradigm Studio 60's
Center= Paradigm Studio CC-590
Side = Paradigm ADP-590's

Either you're really bad at math, or Bose stuff costs 3x where you're from. I see:

L/R = Paradigm Studio 60's - $960 each
Center= Paradigm Studio CC-590 - $1050
Side = Paradigm ADP-590's - $650 each

You're in it for $4270, not including receiver, subs, cables and interconnects. You're comparing apples and watermelons. You're not proving your point by comparing a mid-level (yes, Bose is mid level) consumer system to a high-to-reference level home theater system. I'm not trying to bicker but you see the point here. Feel free to put together a system in the $3K or less range that would crush a Bose Lifestyle system (not hard to do) and your point is valid. I recently built a system for a friend using in-wall speakers and it sounds amazing, for a third of a Lifestyle system.

Oh you want to know about my 2nd setup?? OK
L/R = Martin Logan Motion 12's
Center = Martin Logan Motion 8
side = Martin Logan Motion 4'

[BigTDogg (MA)]

Oh you want to know about my 2nd setup?? OK
L/R = Martin Logan Motion 12's
Center = Martin Logan Motion 8
side = Martin Logan Motion 2'

Tread lightly Valdis.

[Valdis]

Oh you want to know about my 2nd setup?? OK
L/R = Martin Logan Motion 12's
Center = Martin Logan Motion 8
side = Martin Logan Motion 2'

Tread lightly Valdis.

Was that apples to apples enough for you? Because there are limitless combos that I could put up here.

[BlackWidowZ]

hmm just going to intervene here apples to oranges. is like apple computer is to home made PC is to bose is to home made car stereo.

Some noob goes out and buys a mac, mac is a quality product that just works and its easy to use for a computer illiterate person who has a hard time finding power buttons. It costs the noob 4000 dollars and he thinks its awesome.

Some professional computer tech goes online and orders a bunch of pc parts assembles his own pc, it is twice as powerful than the mac and costs less than half as much. It uses intel hardware and better components than the mac.

some noob who is tone deaf and cant distinguish as 128kb mp3 from a 320kb mp3 goes out and buys a bose system it costs 2000 dollars. Its a quality system that just works. He thinks its great and is perfectly happy.

An audiophile builds his owl stereo using quality components, good wires and knows what hes doing puts together a stereo that cost less than the bose and sounds 10 times better.

Bose and apple are not for experts they are for average people who have a lot of money, and dont know any better.

nuff said.

Now I got the passenger side door off. It was hard Im going to post the guide on how to do the doors later on.

As far as the dyna mat is there is something called self adhesive roof flashing you can buy it at lowes, its not exactly she same but very similar and costs way less it will work in the same way.

The poly fill you can get pillow stuffing at walmart its not the same stuff but it will work and uses the same principles.

[Valdis]

hmm just going to intervene here apples to oranges. is like apple computer is to home made PC is to bose is to home made car stereo.

Some noob goes out and buys a mac, mac is a quality product that just works and its easy to use for a computer illiterate person who has a hard time finding power buttons. It costs the noob 4000 dollars and he thinks its awesome.

Some professional computer tech goes online and orders a bunch of pc parts assembles his own pc, it is twice as powerful than the mac and costs less than half as much. It uses intel hardware and better components than the mac.

some noob who is tone deaf and cant distinguish as 128kb mp3 from a 320kb mp3 goes out and buys a bose system it costs 2000 dollars. Its a quality system that just works. He thinks its great and is perfectly happy.

An audiophile builds his owl stereo using quality components, good wires and knows what hes doing puts together a stereo that cost less than the bose and sounds 10 times better.

Bose and apple are not for experts they are for average people who have a lot of money, and dont know any better.

nuff said.

Well said and it hits home for me. I'm that computer tech guy you mentioned (I'm a Field Engineer III for the 3rd largest IT company in the world) and that analogy makes perfect sense.

I'll keep my posts to questions regarding your speaker install.

[BigTDogg (MA)]

I'll keep my posts to questions regarding your speaker install.

You, questions? Noooooo

Good analogy BlackWidowZ

[Valdis]

I'll keep my posts to questions regarding your speaker install.

You, questions? Noooooo

Good analogy BlackWidowZ

And what's so funny about asking questions??
I'll be the first to say that I'm NOT a "car guy".. yes, I own a great car but that doesn't mean I know how to work on it , and I'm sure as hell not going to tear it apart just so I can learn. That's what I pay people like you to do.
I have other interests and I pursue those, but if I have a question, I'll ask it... this is a forum after all. It has always been my understanding that forums are used to bounce ideas off one another and to gain expert advice... why would I not ask car questions on a car forum? If we all knew the answers to every question, none of us would be here.

[BlackWidowZ]

people like you

Who the hell is us people.

[BigTDogg (MA)]

people like you

Who the hell is us people.

LOL! Love that movie, such a classic.

And what's so funny about asking questions??
I'll be the first to say that I'm NOT a "car guy".. yes, I own a great car but that doesn't mean I know how to work on it , and I'm sure as hell not going to tear it apart just so I can learn. That's what I pay people like you to do.

I have other interests and I pursue those, but if I have a question, I'll ask it... this is a forum after all. It has always been my understanding that forums are used to bounce ideas off one another and to gain expert advice... why would I not ask car questions on a car forum? If we all knew the answers to every question, none of us would be here.

And that's what the forum is for You just have an abrasive on-line personality, and came off as a bit of a know-it-all, so I was breaking your balls. Glad you handled it well. Enjoy your stay, I think you'll find a wealth of information here.